This Community Bake will be featuring one of our very own; the "Baguette Baker Extraordinaire", Alan, aka alfanso. He is among a handful of fine baguette bakers on TFL who have spent years concentrating on baguettes, alfanso's favored craft, and his baguettes are consistently outstanding and consistently consistent.. Consistence and repeatability, coupled with breads that visually signify a particular baker are the hallmark of excellence. When viewing an image of any of Alan's baguettes, those that have been around for a while know exactly who baked the bread. We are fortunate to have him on the forum.
We have extracted the bakes of 4 participating bakers and present it in PDF form
Attention New Readers:
Although the Community Bake started some time back, it is still active. New participants are welcomed to join in at any time! It's constantly monitored and help of any kind is still available.
For those that are not familiar with Alan and his baguettes check out his blog.
Since the Covid Pandemic many new bakers have joined the forum. For those that are not familiar with our Community Bakes (CB) see THIS LINK. It should give you an idea of the concept and how things work.
Alan supplied the following information as a guide line to the bake. There are links below with additional resources. Alan's choice of baguette for the CB is Pain au Levain with Whole Wheat, by Jeffrey Hamelman. Jeffrey Hamelman recently retired as Head Baker at the King Arthur Flour Company. His book, "Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, 2nd Edition" is considered a "must have" by most of the bakers on this forum.
Alan writes:
I’ve attached the formula and some photos of my most recent bake of this bread. It is another really easy to manipulate bread that has a fantastic taste, but is not too heavy on the whole grain side. 1250g is a nice amount to create 4 "comfortable sized" baguettes.
I’ve simplified the formula a little by converting it from a 60% hydration to a 100% hydration levain.
Mr. Hamelman uses the term “Bread Flour” but in our realm this really means a standard AP flour with a similar protein profile to King Arthur AP flour, 11.7% protein.
This dough can also be mixed mechanically if you have neither developed the skills nor have the desire to mix by hand."
NOTE - for those using home milled flour a tweak may be necessary. Whole grain (100% extraction) will absorb quite a bit more water than white flour as well as commercial whole wheat flour. Since I used home milled grain, it was necessary to add more water before the dough became extensible enough to slap and fold. I estimate the water added was approximately 28 grams which brought the hydration to ~72%. I should have taken my own advice and measured the additional water, but I didn’t. For those using home milled grains, if would be helpful if you reported the extra water necessary to do the Slap & Folds. See THIS TECHNIQUE.
Additional Resources
- Shaping and scoring Maurizio’s baguettes
- Scoring and baking Hamelman’s pain au levain with mixed SD starters
- Shaping and scoring Bouabsa baguettes (still in my infancy, they’ve come a long way since then!)
- Martin Philip shaping and baking baguettes
- Jeffrey Hamelman shapes baguettes
Everyone is welcomed. Both expert and novice can learn and improve their baking skills by participating and sharing their experience. Make sure to post your good, bad, and ugly breads. We learn much more from our failures, than we do from our successes.
Danny
A late addition -
In Alan’s reply below he reminded us that this is not a competition. The goal of every Community Bake is to learn from one another. There are no losers, only winners. Each and every participant should become a better baguette baker with the help of others.
I believe my scoring was deeper than before maybe 0.5 cm. From horizontal the angle was about 60 degrees. I think those two factors along with more skin tension from better shaping and maybe lower hydration have contributed to the grigné and ears.
Nice Benny! The thicker ears must come from a new scoring technique. Did you change your stroke. Change the launch angle to hit more home runs. A deeper cut with some extra length?
You may have to scale to a smaller piece to get the slender look and less crowding on the steel. Nice job of working with a new flour.
Thanks Don. Yes I changed my scoring and I’m using quick slashes at about 60% from horizontal and going deeper to about 0.5 cm.
I think part of the issue with browning must be crowding on the steel. I probably should only be baking two at a time, unless I can get them slimmer then perhaps there might be more space on the steel. I will continue to work on the shaping and try to get them slimmer next time. There is always something I want to improve upon with everything that I have ever baked.
The second half of the batch was retarded overnight at ~44°F and baked this morning after ~16 additional cold hours. The result is supportive of the theory that retard time has little effect on crumb openness and that I am inconsistent in shaping baguettes. The image below illustrates the different zones where the dough was compressed during shaping (surrounded by the blue ellipses) and the areas that were not (enclosed in pink boxes) where the crumb remains fairly uniform and somewhat dense. The green arrows point to the smaller cross-section produced by the compression during shaping.
Other than the inconsistent shaping, the general appearance of the crumb is quite similar to the loaf above.
The photo below illustrates an esthetic benefit of a long retard at a slightly higher temperature (44°F vs 38°F in this case). There is prolific blistering of the crust, though there is still a lot of experimentation to nail down the specific conditions that lead to this end point.
And the crust is slightly darker than the loaves baked (with minimal retardation) yesterday (when the retard was just enough to cool off the dough so that it was easier to handle). This is a little surprising, but attests to the low temperature activity to the diastatic malt (added for its alpha amylase enzymes).
I just che ked and the post count for this CB was 999. So I thought I’d make it an even 1000.
I just looked up the baguette photos in some of my books: Local Breads by Leader, BBA by Reinhart, and Bread 1st edition by Hamelman.
Dan is right. All of all y'all's "dialed in" loaves are equal to or better looking than all the baguettes in those books.
The Village Baker by Ortiz has one grainy B/W photo with baguettes, and all y'all beat those hands down.
congrats, ladies and gentlemen.
"Noun
The practice of obtaining information or input into a task or project by enlisting the services of a large number of people, either paid or unpaid, typically via the Internet."
And there we have it. The dedicated exchange and wealth of information and input from folks with varying degrees of background and practice in baguettery.
All with one goal in mind, okay maybe two or three. Basically to raise awareness and interest to the joys of baguette baking and its challenges, and to increase the skill set of those who wished to participate or just tune in.
I doubt if there's a single participant who isn't a better baker at some level due to the own participation.
"a rising tide lifts all boats"
I see references to blade angle without enough information for me to recreate it.
I use two angles to describe blade orientation:
Starting with the handle of the lame aligned with the axis of the loaf and the flat of the blade vertical (even if it is curved, assume it is curved symmetrically about the center of the blade after the blade is oriented vertically). Now the elevation angle is formed by lifting your wrist and the back of the lame so that the handle forms an acute angle with the axis of the loaf. This is really a dive angle if you use airplane coordinates but we will call it the elevation angle and it is positive as the handle is lifted higher and higher toward the vertical.
The second angle is the rotation of the blade about an axis parallel to the loaf axis so that the path of the end of the lame handle lies on a circle, the axis of which is parallel to the loaf axis. I refer to this a the roll angle with clockwise roll being positive.
If there is a different preferred coordinate frame I am happy to adopt it but I don't know what it is.
It was just pointed out to me that there is another angle to capture, and that is the direction that the blade curves. Let's use the right hand rule to describe blades that have the belly of the curve on the right side of the handle when the blade is vertical to have positive curvature, and blades that have the belly of the curve on the left to have negative curvature. Some right handed users may prefer to use a negatively curved blade to assault the dough and may use a negative roll angle to go with it.
French flour is giving me fits! Went 68% hydration this time and it was way wet. Decided to give it 300 uninterrupted slap & folds hoping that they would bring strength to the dough. Shaping was a challenge. The dough was super slack and very sticky.
Since the bake before this was too dry at 66% and this bake is too wet at 68%, the only assumption it that 67% should be the best. It’s hard to believe that this flour is so water sensitive. Think about it, 14 grams of flour is the difference between sloppy wet and super dry. Geremy just got his T65 and he tells me that 72% is probably just right. Either he knows something I don’t or we have very different flour.
The dough was scored at approximately a 60 degree angle, but with such a slack dough, ears were not to be. Same old, same old. Bread always turns out a great texture and taste. Were it not for that, I abandon it in favor of the good ole USA flour.
Making small strides towards sloped ends during shaping.
That is crazy that 66% was too dry and 68% too wet. Was it the same batch of flour or two different batches of the same flour? Perhaps the flour used from this set was stored somewhere very humid or the previous somewhere really dry before you received it.
I like your shaping with the pointy ends, very very nice.
Since phillippe was waiting on a huge shipment (hence the delays). Best thing to compare now maybe is if you stand mix it using the same timing and settings that i do and see what you get then. Maybe its getting overworked. As mentioned before the amount of mixing is really light and totally predictable. I juat did the following.
- 500g + 320g water 4 minute slow mix.
- 30 minute autolyse
- 8 minute slow mix with .5g IDY and 10g salt
- 2 mins high speed and gradually adding the remaining 30g of water.
From here Im fermenting for 1 hr then i will FF and ferment again for 30 mins then bulk in fridge. Also its rather cool here around 75F so i will likely add some time to the 1.5 hours on the bench but otherwise ... so far it looks like the dough i know ;)
Geremy, my Kitchenaid is laid up with stripped gears. Maybe I’ll borrow my neighbors and follow in your foot steps.
If I remember correctly, you don’t use any retardation. Is that correct?
Please try to spell out your method and process. Images would be nice and I’ll follow along. Hopefully tomorrow.
Both will make a difference. IDY really wants to be rehydrated with 125° water, and if you use room temperature water the performance will be significantly different.
Gluten development is determined by the shear energy absorbed by the dough and the dough hook puts less energy in than the paddle so you just have to be consistent.
Danny - Make sure you know what your flour moisture content really is. You live in Louisiana and that is not the same as Paris (or Lyon). Weigh out 100g on a baking sheet and dry it in the oven at 140-160°F until it stops losing weight, then reweigh the pan + flour and calculate how much weight it lost.
I notice a lot of variation in crumb openness that is quite similar to what I experienced, with your skinny loaf showing a more uniformly open crumb than the fatter one. To what do you attribute this?
Doc, I attribute the tighter crumb on the ends of the smaller loaf to pressing down in order to form the tapered ends.
I will need to heat some flour and test the moisture content.
...from the air ? Seems that if i ordered 2 sacs of 50lbs each and sent one to cali and the other to new orleans i would be really freaked out if the one in new orleans absorbed even 30g of weight from the air. Is that really something that matters as a factor when deciding hydration ? Really curious. Seems to me akin to weighing a battery before and after it depletes to figure how many electrons rushed out and converted to energy !
Put 100g T65 into the oven set at 170F
Moisture content determined to be 12.29%
Set an alarm so that you do that again in January next year. Then we can see how much difference you observe. You might try a different flour as well to see if there is a significant difference in that dimension as well.
I ordered a bag of this flour and it should be here later in the week. I look forward to comparing my experiences with yours and to see how it compares with the Wheat Montana AP I have been using that I think has a nice flavor.
The tapered ends look nice on the outside but I was surprised to see the effects on the crumb.
Don, the good news is, it is very possible to shape the baguette with gradually tapering ends and still produce completely open crumb throughout. Benny and Maurizio prove that out,
So much to learn...
I look forward to reading your results with T65!
Surprisingly the tapered end didn’t have that tght a crumb. Along the sides are tighter than the centre. I haven’t been able to attain the super crumb from a few bakes back, but I also have had to change flours which may have affected it.
Suppose you have 1000g of flour and in one case it is dry and in the other case it is 15% moisture. The bread you make requires 670g of water for flour with 15% moisture. How much water do you need to add to the dry flour to produce the same resulting dough?
There is 150g of water in one batch to which you add 670g resulting in 820g of total water added to 850g of dry flour (96.4% hydration)
To yield the same moisture content using dry flour you have to add 964g of water which would normally be excessive but it produces the same dough and adds an additional 294g of water to achieve the same result (though the batch weight is greater by 294g as well).
Real world results are not that extreme, but the calculation and the necessary adjustments are arrived at by the same methodology.
So it does matter, even if you don't think so. I think everybody has a favorite hydration that works for them which implicitly accounts for the moisture in their flour. But I suspect that you can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of people you know who routinely make the adjustment. And that estimate may be high. But it is not irrelevant if you are using an unfamiliar flour, and that may justify actually making the measurement.
Interesting perspective here
I am still in baguette mode so why not post it. The Bouabsa recipe again and the last of it's kind for a while because I will hopefully be working with the french flour next weekend and we will see how it compares. Wheat Montana AP with 78% hydration because it is really dry here now. I just rolled up the dough in a tube shape and rested seam up. I think I will switch to a fat oval batard type pre shape next time because they end up too skinny in the middles otherwise. I did get a nice double taper on one of them anyway. Used ADY again and retarded for 21 hours. I should have added some malt because they didn't want to brown. The crooked one got stuck on the stone when I went to slide it in place and it wiggled out of line and affected the crumb at that spot. Otherwise the Super Duper Peel is working smoothly now with the right belt tension.
The french flour must really be something because these taste really good. I saw a great T-shirt yesterday that said
Montana
social distancing
since 1889
As per the rules skiers are able to discard their worst run. Well bake two of three is that run for me. I hate making excuses, however, three late afternoon Dewar's on the rocks, may or may not have contributed to the horrific slashing job. Truth is the bake was doomed for the initial mixing stage. I took a tried and true formula messed with it with little before thought. I will revisit the semolina baguette, but not without some thought. Smile...While batch number two turned out well below my normal, average sticks, they were quite edible. ( Bake three of three is set for 8:00PM bake off)
What lesson did you learn from this one?
Will, I wonder if the loaves would have blown out or not if they weren’t scored? If they didn’t blow out, maybe they would have produced Ciabatta-like crumb.
I imagine high percentages of Semolina in baguettes is a unique challenge in itself.
Broke protocol (not to use this new oven for bread but more to join the action. No steam just mist on the surface. First loaves in about 2 years - ok results but working on the newer bread dedicated unit -
Like the Demis. How much do they weigh? Shaping those don’t come easy for me.
Pretty good after a 2 year sabbatical!
The demi is really a mini and it's whatever I had left over, maybe 150g
Can't wait to see the brand when it makes it mark. It must have been difficult holding back for so long watching us from the sidelines. So ready to bust out that a gas oven had to be used. I hope the new oven works as anticipated. I look forward to any help you could provide after the T65 gets here. We will probably be on pg 5 by then
The Louis Lamour method (for Dan) and will post sometime before you T65 arrives. I'm really interested to see how it works out for others !
As strange as this sounds, the raw T65 flour taste a little sweet to me. It is milled super fine, like talcum powder.
Some good, back sliding in other areas. Slashing mostly failed, shaping was a big disappointment because I was improving. Still in all, I am happy with the oven spring, and ear on that one stick! Additionally I am getting closer to the chubby 400G at 17" sticks I am striving for. I'm not going to give to much worry to the color, other than remembering to spray the skin.
Another element in the plus column. Overall I rate this bake a "C" passing, but I can do so much better! Please excuse the low quality photograph.
Multiple variations on the theme this time. Switched to KA AP flour. Stayed with 4 x 390g, 1% diastatic malt + 0.25% nutritional yeast dissolved in 20ml of the water. Dough temperature was a little lower (85°F vs 90°F). Moved some of the fermentation time from bulk (90 min) to final proof (2 hr) - to the detriment of the final results. Retard at the end of BF was 2 hr - just enough to get the dough temperature down to 45°F to improve handling during shapping. Baked two pans of two baguettes each at the same time (with noticeable differences in oven spring and browning with the upper set turning out less brown but with increased oven spring). Crumb (bottom photo) is not as uniform and noticeably tighter than the last batch (I attribute this to the shorter BF). Shaping was similar to last batch: cut off a strip of dough, fold it in half, cynch it up (net about 10" long), rest 30 min, tighten once more and roll out to 20".
Proof on the counter 2 hr, retard 45 min to stiffen the dough then bake - so this was eight hours end to end.
The lame was rolled over further (maybe 15°) for the two at the bottom with a noticeable difference in the ears, but they were also baked lower in the oven which becomes a confuser.
I think next round will increase BF to about 3 hr and push the final proof as far as I think I can before chilling and baking.
The top two have a better rise and ear and overall nicer appearance.
Right now I am attributing the difference to oven position and possibly to lame technique. Next batch will be four sticks, two high/two low in the oven and one of each slashed with a higher blade roll angle
The shape and crumb are really nice. Are you using the higher DT to promote a more sour taste? If so would a longer retard do the same thing?
While the LAB does have a marginally higher growth rate at elevated temperatures, 90°F is not enought suppress the yeast which is what you need if you want to see any real acidity increase. I do it for timing, and so long as the dough rheology is not making it terribly difficult to handle, warmer means a shorter overall process.
A longer retard can do that for you, but at low temperatures it is not the relative growth rate that I would worry about so much as the really slow rate of the LAB acid production that makes it take a long time. I think the ideal temperature is perhaps right where the yeast effectively stops fermenting sugar while the LAB continues to make acid - and that is a strong function of the specific yeast you are using and thus not something that we can provide general guidance on (except that you have to figure it out for yourself).
Doc, do the top 2 loaves have thinner crust than the bottom 2?
The top 2 look a lot like MTLoaf’s baguettes, which I am becoming fond of. Thin crispy crust is a big thing with baguettes for me. That’s why I’ve been using CY only for the last number of bakes.
These are sourdough with no commercial yeast. I may get around to that but the space to be explored has too many dimensions already - I don't need another one right now.
I really want a baguette that has some sourdough in it, so if I go to CY it will likey be via Geremy's practice, a small amount as a booster rather than as a replacement.
The crust is typical sourdough crust - chewy, crackly, intensely flavored.
You may like to check-out Hamelmans's sourdough baguettes. only 0.2% yeast and 0.1% malt powder.
Thanks. When the time comes that sounds about right, though the malt would not be enough to do much, unless it is non-diastatic malt and there to give the yeast a little boost.
Following on from my baguettes made early in this community challenge from the Pain au Levain with whole-wheat, I wanted to return to a simpler baguette and introduce hand kneading with stretch and folds instead of letting the mixer do the work. Previously, I have made baguettes with poolish quite a few times and have that experience as my baseline to compare the results.
Hamelman’s formula is 66% hydration with white bread flour. I have to settle for 340 g for each baguette dough as that is the max of my oven depth. The flour available to me now is a Lauche white flour of 11.5% protein. I am pleased with the overall results, but my shaping went a bit askew in one of the baguettes. I could feel that I had too much dough in one end after I had rolled it out to my maximum length of 30 cm. Even though the formula is 66% hydration, the dough had a very soft feel and I could easily straighten them up on the wooden peel while holding their shape. Scoring was easy without any drag.
Baked in a pre-steamed oven at 237 °C for 24 minutes. Steam for the first 5 minutes and finished in a drying oven.
After the bake, I could see which baguette had the shaping problem with uneven spring and inconsistent size lengthwise. Hand kneading resulted in a lighter, more open crumb and bigger oven spring than using my mixer. A nice rich russet crust with a creamy open aromatic crumb.
Interesting change with the hand mix. Was the goal a less developed gluten to open up the crumb? It is quite nice for the lower hydration and the oven spring was impressive.
Gavin, from my point of view your shaping looks very good. We are our own worst critics.
You mention, “hand kneading”. I’m thinking like you. If we develop the gluten completely, it could hinder the oven spring and maybe tighten the crumb. Haven’t proved that out, but it is my present thought.
This experiment was to test whether gentler handling of the dough resulted in a better product in volume and crumb. My mixer is a Thermomix that has an aggressive kneading action compared to other mixer types. To give you an idea of how aggressive; when determining the desired dough temperature, the friction factor I must apply for 2:30 minutes is 55°F, whereas most mixers are around 24°F to 26°F to moderate gluten development. The chance of overmixing is a real threat using my Thermomix.
Since reading the posts here, I realise that many do the slap or stretch and folds. I have tested this over the last three weeks with my sourdough, that has seen an improvement.
I am pleased with the results yesterday with the baguette.
Cheers,
Gavin.
Hello, friends.
I am in the research phase of planning my next baguette bake. I settled on a very interesting bread by None other than the queen of Italian bread, Ms. Carol Fields. If anyone is interested in her exact formula, I picked up the PDF of her book "The Italian baker" pretty cheap over at Amazon. The durum wheat bread I chose is called Altamura bread, from the Puglia region. I am a little confused by her description of shaping the traditional pompadour shape? No worries I plan on shaping this 89% hydration bread into rustic baguettes. Below, is interesting information I gleaned from the internet. Ah, that bring me to one other note. I plan on using Italian mineral water for the bake, Fiuggi water (Acqua di Fiuggi ) if I can find some. I think, midweek I will start the biga.
Altamura bread is particularly special, as it is the only bread in Europe that has Protected Designation of Origin (PDO) status, which it was granted by the EU in 2003. The bread is therefore highly regulated; if bakers want to use the name Pane di Altamura DOP, they must meet all PDO benchmarks to ensure that they are using traditional methods and ingredients. These requirements include using particular varieties of wheat, a certain specification of water, a consistent production method and a final crust which must be more than three millimeters thick. That’s pretty precise!
I look forward to seeing this one proceed. It sounds super interesting. Like the background info.
What is the percentage of Durum?
Does it use sourdough?
The bread is 100% durum wheat flour. No sourdough, the biga has 1/2 teaspoon of C.Y, and the final dough has another 1/2 teaspoon. Very interesting indeed!
bread fascination. Indeed a 100% durum wheat bread, we "all" also used a 100% durum levain rather than a different pre-ferment. There's a lot of TFL info available on this bread. I was a participant as well, and in my often typical wayward ways, I deviated enough from the traditional shape that I had to move three times, and change my identity to avoid the personal ire of any adherents!
My post has links to other earlier baker's attempts. The neighboring Basilicata town of Matera has a bread in the same tradition.
As it happens, I was just now checking out the bakes by Dr. Snyder and Franko! My wife picked up the Fiuggi water at the Italian specialty shop on University. so this is already taking shape! The durum flour I have is a very fine grind. Ms. Fields, call for fine, so I think I am on the right track as far as ingredients.
Yeah, I know that it's not but I usually forget their real name, as since the day they opened, that's what I call them. A fairly good source for the sometimes harder to find items but you need to know the price of things before they go into your basket! When down there, I find myself shopping in Gristedes, a necessary evil, although there probably isn't a single thing about the store that appeals to me except the Utz Dark Baked Pretzels, and I can get those at CVS across the street when I knuckle under to the desire. Way way back, the Knickerbocker Grill was a wonderful AND fair priced place to catch a Village meal in style. No more! One last piece of history here, the former home of the bank on the corner of 8th and University, was for decades The Cookery jazz club and restaurant, where we went a number of times to see the late great Alberta Hunter.
Not much to do with bread here, but when I saw you mention Sacco & Vanzetti I had to comment. Okay, I'm done...
I want to say, when I moved to the Village 20+ years ago that spot was a woman's clothing shop. Then BBQ's for many years (lots of liquid lunches at that spot) Yes, it's imposable for us to do a big shopping near home. We go to queens, or even the LES to load up. So, couple of two three years ago, I needed a bluefish on the bone for one of moms signature recipes. (Daughter of a poor fisherman) My bride and I walked to Chinatown to look for the fish. Alan, I tell you what, I would not feed the fish I saw there to my dog! So we walked back and went to the "Valente &...spot" All they had out were filets, The dude must have thought I wanted him to hack up a bluefish for one steak. When he realized I wanted the whole fish he came up with one! I didn't even care about the price. Sometimes when it comes to my cooking, price is of little consequence! This was the resulting meal.
Bluefish on the bone
I'll follow your adventure in Altamura bead with interest. I have Daniel Leader's book "Local Breads" and he devotes a complete chapter on the bread from the small town Altamura. I haven't made any bread from his book yet but it's an excellent read.
Cheers,
Gavin
There have been may passed posts, that used the local breads formula, with very impressive results. In fact in a post directly above, Alfonso shared the link to his 100% durum bake, following basically the local breads formula! Fingers crossed that thing normalize all over, maybe we could do a C.B. on durum wheat bread!
Thanks to Geremy, I am getting a better handle on the French flour. I followed his instructions verbatim. Even borrowed my neighbors Kitchenaid mixer to duplicate exactly what Geremy was doing. The bake used all CY @ 0.32%. Past Bouabsa bakes were difficult at 68% hydration but with the new instructions 72% was very doable. I am wondering if the fact that I was mixing the IDY with the dough water may have had a detrimental affect on the dough. That seems strange, but recently read that IDY should be mixed dry with the flour, which I did for this bake.
Although the dough was not super strong, it was definitely more manageable. Shaping was better, but nothing has shaped nearly as well as Hamelman’s Pain au Levain. None came even close! If I were into Instagram fame, there is no doubt, Hameman’s Pain au Levain would be the choice. Great bread for the Baguette CB, Alan! The dough was chilled after the final proof and before slashing.
Dan, your grand-daughter could sell those at her lemonade stand and you two could make a fortune.
Seeig that shaping and handling was challlenging. Not sure about the IDY and water theory - who knows. Btw on the steam - i mentioned to go easy probably because you recent 60 degree slash bake didnt bust and suspected maybe you over steamed. I find that its kinda sensitive but if you figure the ideal steam blast this ia where you can really develop good gringne. Too much steam and the loaf is too soft, too little steam gets a duller crust. Now, while on the topic of ovens, wheres my friggen electrician at - hes late !!!
I have a mix started after it arrived this afternoon. ?? ?
Looking forward to seeing and hearing your results.
oh, wait. I've been retired since 2003...
Beautiful bake Dan, corner bakery window dressing for sure. Is it just the lighting or are these lacking some caramelization sheen from the steaming?
Can we assume from the image below that the stone should be raised to subject the crust to more heat?
I ask because if you examine the crumb it is obvious that bottom has a nicer crumb than the top. These leads me to consider that more heat from the top may do two things.
As an example, let’s look at Doc’s crumb shot (below). The cell structure appears to mirror the top and the bottom. Should this be considered an indication of even heat distribution between the top and bottom of the loaf?
The hot air is flowing both over and under each loaf from the side, so the biggest difference I see between two side-by-side loaves is due to flow blockage by the up-stream loaf, and since I reverse the pans (rotate each pan 180°) half way through it pretty much balances out.
Time to put aside my pain rustique experiments and get down to biznez again. I asked my wife what's up on her desired baking wheel of fortune, and she chose these, which are likely our most baked bread other than maybe the Vermont SD. The semolina here is actually the finer durum, although I'll probably call them semolina until the day I Croak Monsieur!
60% semola rimacinata, 40% AP, the hydration on these is a modest 67%. And while I get some open crumb, the high percentage of semolina does not play fair when it comes to open crumb.
0.25% NY mixed into the liquid, 100% hydration AP levain & salt aded at autolyse time, a shortened 20 minutes affair. 2 hrs/ BF with folds at 40,80 & 110. And then retarded until divide and shaping somewhere about half-way through the retard cycle. 460dF one, 13 min. steam, rotate and 13 min more, 2 min oven venting.
The Nutritional Yeast likely provided the extensibility that the dough needed, and again, it did not shrink back much if any. I'd like to see some better, more consistent shaping throughout the barrel of the baton, should have been a half shade darker, and perhaps should have ben a thicker barrel.
But I can't complain about the scoring or the overall bake. At all.
My couche was initially cut to accommodate the length of my long batards, too short for these. A few years ago my brother brought this back from Paris for me. An all cotton kitchen towel, it seems to not only do the job, but also be a most appropriate couche.
330g x 3 baguettes
That a coincidence, I have a boule with 45% semolina rimacinata en 55% White wheat in the fridge.
The first time I am using more then 20% in bread.
A recent, past few decades, hybrid grain of wild barley and durum wheat was developed in Spain. It is available in some countries in Europe, although I'm not sure about the Netherlands. It has a number of advantages over traditional grains, and can be found on websites that promote the grain .
I've baked with it and it is vey similar to semolina/durum. Something you might want to look into as an alternative to semolina. My most recent bake with it was in April. And I like it, but it isn't available here in North America yet.
There is at least one wind mill here in the Netherlands thats sells it in there shop and on there site.
The also sell kamut but that is really expensive. Like € 7,05/$ 8,30 1 kilo.
There is at least one wind mill here in the Netherlands thats sells it in there shop and on there site.
The also sell kamut but that is really expensive. Like € 7,05/$ 8,30 1 kilo.
The seeds really glam it up.
Was it difficult to roll the shaped baguettes in the seeds?
Was the dough firm, similar to Pain au Levain?
A little rubbery during the French Folds, but it smooths out and becomes incredibly extensible by the first letter fold, even when not using the NY.
The only difficulty in rolling it in the seeds is that my standard, and perhaps longest tray is a few inches too short for the dough. So I had the somewhat bend the dough for it to fit. Not hard or inconvenient, but not right either.
The seeds on the outside of the baguettes look amazing Alan. At this point in my baguette skills I don’t think I’d be up for rolling my shaped baguettes on a damp cloth and then in seeds, I’ll leave that for you experts. Sesame seeds on the outside of a sourdough baguette are one of my favourite types of baguettes though so someday...
just keep a wet towel, aper or otherwise, large enough for the shaped dough to fit on. A quick roll back and forth, and then the same in a tay of seeds. No pressure applied at either movement. You can do it.
duplicate
You mentioned divide, shape and couche mid way through the bulk retard. Looking for specifics of the seed application.
first wet cloth, then seeds. Just a short back and forth gentle movement on each. The scoring was done right out of retard and just before loading the oven.
I don't think the seeds are heavy enough to matter on the scoring or eventual grigne and they don't get in the way of the blade at al.
Do you apply the seeds after shaping and then put the dough back into the fridge, or are the seeds applied after the full retard is complete?
I never considered whether to do it at the end of retard, but at that stage I want to do nothing else manipulative other than move the dough from couche to oven peel.
Amazing bread! Professor Cavell .would be proud of the artisan bread baking effort! Kuddos.
Now all that being said, I just know you and Mr. Wilson are warming to a 100% durum wheat bake! Smile...
P.S. Counting down to the biga build!
not a particularly difficult task. I don't know about Mr. Wilson, but I do think about Me and Mrs. Jones .
Have some tasty fun with your formula. Having grown up a stone's throw from both Jewish and Italian bakeries in the Bronx, I find that rye with caraway and sesame semolina breads, both my favorites, are on my short rotation.
I make a very decent low % deli rye also. I would be curious to see yours.
These days I use 100% hydration AP levain vs. what is in this post. Also currently use 25% rye flour and 0% WW, and it doesn't really matter what hydration % starter to build the levain.
This is what that looks like from a bake a few weeks ago, without the cornstarch glaze. There are also caraway seeds mixed into the dough.
All of a sudden, I am in the mood for pastrami with brown mustard on rye! Lenny's? Hmm, maybe.
We typically fly home on a late afternoon flight. A stop at Lenwich for an airport gate lunch is an essential part of the get-away day routine! Sometimes also a diversion to Bleecker St. pizza on the way to the A or E. That means JFK or LGA for the uninformed!
There no longer is a "typical" flight for the foreseeable future for us. We each had 3 flight reservations that we had to cancel in the early Spring. As Dylan sang "We ain't going nowhere". I won't get a plane until there is a vaccine. And I'll assume that we codgers will be on the first half of the line-up for the injection.
they closed the 6th av. location. They reopened on University and I want to say 11st? I was thinking it was a new satellite location. Until I notice the 6th av. spot is closed. I am 90% sure the new spot is open, Last time I passed it was either just open or still coming soon.
I have always had a fondness for semolina sesame seed. Glad to see you back on your game. Now we are off to explore the flours of the world while making baguettes. Durham flour! I haven't seen it in the shops around here only semolina. Will that work? I hope so or my delivery driver is going to hate me.
Some Canadian mills make an Atta Durum that mimics semola rimacinata. I found it and took the plunge with a 20lb. bag I saw, and was not disappointed on the first bake.
Semolina comes in a few different grinds, and even the finest of them, #1 I think, is too coarse for bread. But that's what I believe without ever having experienced it myself.
This was the first bake with the longer baguettes where I felt comfortable with this new length, basically 50% longer than my standard "long batards". Nothing like feeling that hint of confidence at addressing the task at hand.
Thanks, alan
The Atta Durum is widely available here in Toronto. I’ve seen it at many of the largest supermarkets in the “ethnic” foods section with the Indian foods.
I have always wondered about the flours I bake with that come from the shelf of most supermarkets. I try to buy the best available which used to be King Arthur but it has been gone from our shelves for a while. I am fortunate to live near wheat country and the local flour is pretty good (Wheat Montana) and it goes along with the effort to purchase locally. However the boys in the band were singing the praises of this flour and I saw it as a rare opportunity to bake with really good flour for once. I don't know if I will ever make it to France but I have one more good reason to go now.
I used The Bouabsa formula of course and mixed it in my normal way a 20 minute autolyse with the 1/4 tsp SAF IDY at 70% water. Added the salt and 15 gr more water and mixed Rubaud for a minute or two rested for 10 and mixed another minute. Two coil folds in the first hour and one more an hour later as I put it in the fridge for the night, two and a half hours after starting. The dough had a silky texture but very sticky at the same time. When I looked this morning the dough had doubled and was domed so I punched it down and did another coil fold and went to work. I took it out of the fridge after 18 hours and divided it folded the ends in and rolled up a loose tube rested seam up. Shaped 15 minutes later and proofed 40 minutes. The dough was sticky and needed a lot of the precious flour on the bench to work with it but it was a pleasure to roll with even though quite delicate. The skin was not very taut and the scoring was jagged but that may have something to do with the warm afternoon. Baked at 480 for 23 minutes with steam under the stone as the change to allow smoother loading with the super duper peel. The smell from the oven was very different from the normal aroma.
Voila
They look very similar to the other sticks I posted
The crust was worth the price of admission alone.
The crumb was lovely and soft and melted on the tongue.
The flour didn't disappoint on the flavor and mouth feel. The crust was the best I have ever had. It was like deep fried cotton candy if there was such a thing. The flavor lingers with a long finish. A real eating pleasure.
I have enough flour to make baguettes 19 more times and will look forward to everyone of them. Thanks again to Kendalm for hooking us up with the good stuff.
So glad to got to try this flour. It was obvious from reading your previous post that this flour was right up your alley. It is the best baguettes I’ve ever eaten, by a long shot.
They came out super nice!
It is very different from American flours...
but the best hunk of bread ever period. There was a very refined feel to the flour but it was similar to working with KAFAP and weaker than the Wheat Montana AP. Hydration was in the neighborhood of 73% as Kendalm suggested and it handled like 75+ It just felt better at every step along the way. It seems intolerant of continuous mixing and more suited to the brief mixing with pauses that I prefer.
Yes, it seems we are too homogenized here to make specialty flour widely available. There must be someone on our side of the pond who is growing and milling a flour with these traits or my next order will be the 50 pounder.
That I have tried the real thing. It describes our plight. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/13/baking-bread-in-lyon
flour envy. I'm not sure that I'll also take the plunge, but I really enjoy living vicariously through your group bakes, trials, tribulations and subsequent successes. For the first time out of the gate, these look wonderful and display your signature signature!
I wonder if, when the formula was first developed by janedo and dmsnyder, whether they pumped up the hydration to accommodate North American flours. But the flour really was designed to be in the upper 60's to about your 70% hydration.
Don't bother wasting the precious flour by dusting the workbench with it. Why not use more pedestrian flour for the simple tasks?
Deep fried cotton candy - watch for it at a State Fair near you!
I think phillippe is shipping smaller quanties now so i think pick up maybe 5kg and he ships from the east coast so you can really benefit on shipping cost. aside from the really egg shell crust and tender crumb, it is the aroma and flavor that is something else. i have a hard time describing the aroma - its sort dampness that is really distict and inviting. eating-wise, dont expect flavor to hit you like a ton of bricks, it develops in your mouth as an almost dairy experience. you introduced me to hitchock - i humbly return the favor and well, kinda insist !
There is an ice cream quality to the crumb. I could still taste it hours after eating it. That's how long it haunts you. The texture and flavor was sublime right out of the oven but there is a period during the day old bread phase that crust has lost it's distinction but the flavor is at it's strongest.
You guys on the east coast should not hesitate to procure some of this flour. Gold Medal be damned.
I am noticing something that piggy backs onto Doc’s idea. Almost all of the TFL bakers baby their dough after BF. Doc mentioned a few post above how he “beat” the dough down and still got nice crumb. Don, pretty much a “crumb master”, takes his dough out of a 21 hr retard and “punched it down and did a coil fold”. <ouch!>
But take a look at his crumb. Are we babying our dough too much?
Don used CY and Doc used SD, I think.
I just degassed folded and put it back in the fridge for another 8 hours. it looked proper by then and was handled carefully after that. I think you can be more forceful with yeasted dough up until the actual final shape from then on any rough handling will show up in the final product.
For me its kinda a secret i dont want to share but for real enthusiasts we gotta keep lepicerie.com thriving. to my knowlege this is the only source of true french boulangerie bread flour here in usa. the reason i bake these is because i must have that same experience from the first bite I had in antibes back in the mid 80s. that alone speaks volumes. forget the fact anytime i was in france i stuffed my luggage them and froze them at home about 14 hours later. this is the real deal and so glad you like the results !
Nice web site! I almost gave up when I clicked on the four tab and the page was empty. However I persevered and found the goods. I need more diastatic malt anyway, so I may as well give the T65 a whirl. Before I lock it in, I have a question are you guys using the organic or the regular, is there a difference? Should I go ahead and save the 5 bucks? Thanks for your help in advance.
Went with Organic because there was so little price difference.
and I am still here. It ships from Rhode Island and was $40 bucks for shipping alone to get it in Montana. You could probably take a bus and get it yourself.