This Community Bake will be featuring one of our very own; the "Baguette Baker Extraordinaire", Alan, aka alfanso. He is among a handful of fine baguette bakers on TFL who have spent years concentrating on baguettes, alfanso's favored craft, and his baguettes are consistently outstanding and consistently consistent.. Consistence and repeatability, coupled with breads that visually signify a particular baker are the hallmark of excellence. When viewing an image of any of Alan's baguettes, those that have been around for a while know exactly who baked the bread. We are fortunate to have him on the forum.
We have extracted the bakes of 4 participating bakers and present it in PDF form
Attention New Readers:
Although the Community Bake started some time back, it is still active. New participants are welcomed to join in at any time! It's constantly monitored and help of any kind is still available.
For those that are not familiar with Alan and his baguettes check out his blog.
Since the Covid Pandemic many new bakers have joined the forum. For those that are not familiar with our Community Bakes (CB) see THIS LINK. It should give you an idea of the concept and how things work.
Alan supplied the following information as a guide line to the bake. There are links below with additional resources. Alan's choice of baguette for the CB is Pain au Levain with Whole Wheat, by Jeffrey Hamelman. Jeffrey Hamelman recently retired as Head Baker at the King Arthur Flour Company. His book, "Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes, 2nd Edition" is considered a "must have" by most of the bakers on this forum.
Alan writes:
I’ve attached the formula and some photos of my most recent bake of this bread. It is another really easy to manipulate bread that has a fantastic taste, but is not too heavy on the whole grain side. 1250g is a nice amount to create 4 "comfortable sized" baguettes.
I’ve simplified the formula a little by converting it from a 60% hydration to a 100% hydration levain.
Mr. Hamelman uses the term “Bread Flour” but in our realm this really means a standard AP flour with a similar protein profile to King Arthur AP flour, 11.7% protein.
This dough can also be mixed mechanically if you have neither developed the skills nor have the desire to mix by hand."
NOTE - for those using home milled flour a tweak may be necessary. Whole grain (100% extraction) will absorb quite a bit more water than white flour as well as commercial whole wheat flour. Since I used home milled grain, it was necessary to add more water before the dough became extensible enough to slap and fold. I estimate the water added was approximately 28 grams which brought the hydration to ~72%. I should have taken my own advice and measured the additional water, but I didn’t. For those using home milled grains, if would be helpful if you reported the extra water necessary to do the Slap & Folds. See THIS TECHNIQUE.
Additional Resources
- Shaping and scoring Maurizio’s baguettes
- Scoring and baking Hamelman’s pain au levain with mixed SD starters
- Shaping and scoring Bouabsa baguettes (still in my infancy, they’ve come a long way since then!)
- Martin Philip shaping and baking baguettes
- Jeffrey Hamelman shapes baguettes
Everyone is welcomed. Both expert and novice can learn and improve their baking skills by participating and sharing their experience. Make sure to post your good, bad, and ugly breads. We learn much more from our failures, than we do from our successes.
Danny
A late addition -
In Alan’s reply below he reminded us that this is not a competition. The goal of every Community Bake is to learn from one another. There are no losers, only winners. Each and every participant should become a better baguette baker with the help of others.
Are you and Jen using spray on lacquer to get that shine. The crumb is a site to behold. I wonder what would happen if you shaped regular sized batard with that dough besides hitting the top of the oven, forcing the door open and floating away.
Other than my steaming set up as shown in the photo of my oven (silvia towel not shown) I have taken to spritzing extra water on the baguettes just before adding the boiling water to the cast iron skillet and closing the oven door. Perhaps that extra water is making them a bit shiny?
That has that starchy sheen to it from the full fermentation and making a poor joke. I have found that the spritzing of water directly on the crust can cause that splotchy coloring on the crust.
Then it is probably the spritzing of water causing the irregular colouring of the crust. I will avoid that with the next bake and hope that the crust is more evenly browned. Thanks Don.
A narrow (1" to 1-1/4" wide) nylon-bristle paint brush cleans up easily and you can use it to brush water onto the dough surface before you score it. It also removes any flour that the dough picked up from the couche. You have much better control with a brush than with a spray unless you use an air brush and even then I suspect a brush would do a better job because it picks up the loose surface flour and you can rinse it off when you refresh the water on the brush.
Yes that is actually what I do with my hearth breads, but have only done it one with the baguettes. I don’t think I’ll spritz water anymore, I’ll just use my brush that I’m already using to brush off the flour to then brush on some water. Thanks Doc.
Benny - I think this would be an ideal place to use a little nutritional yeast to increase the extensibility as a help with shaping. At 0.25% you are right where the commercial bakers go. It is a tiny amount but you will feel it. And while you might want to cut back on the mixing, keep the coil folds which give you the opportunity to check on the dough strength. Once you get the mixing right you don't really need any folds, though I like to do at least one just to know where I am in the process.
Thanks Doc, Dan suggested the same thing so that might be what I do next time then. I suspect that my next dough will have even more elasticity since it won’t have any of the T55 in it so it would be even more resistant to elongation. I’ll make a note of this so when I mix I add the NY.
Benny,
When I ran my one Bouabsa bake yesterday I found the KA AP flour to also be elastic, pulling in from the rolled out 21 inches to 19 inches as soon as it hit the couche. Yeah, next run I'll take the Doctor's advice and sprinkle in some NY at his prescribed percentage.
The one time I used it recently, I a) didn't like the flavor it imparted, and b) used 2%, which at the time I thought was judicious, but was way way too much.
OK now with the three of you ganging up on me LOL ** strongly suggesting** nutritional yeast I will add 0.25% of it to my next bake. Thanks.
Is it always true that a sourdough loaf has a thick crust relative to the same formula made with commercial yeast? And why is that?
No Proof, but best guess with be the acids from the LAB in the sourdough.
But harder and tougher in the same way that the crumb has more texture and substance. I thought that somewhere in this CB you stated that the yeast population was greater with CY and better able to penetrate all of the flour. I just accept it as fact but it would be nice to know the definitive reason.
I would guess that the acid effects on tightening the gluten network might result in thicker/tougher crust and CY breads wouldn't have the acid since it doesn't have the LAB.
but had to get it out after a few questionable bakes. My mother-in-law keeps harping on us "I want some of Alan's bread, I want some of Alan's bread". Since she's 92 and 1200 miles north, my wife decided that we should mail it to her against my warnings that it would likely go bad before arrival. And I ain't paying to send a >2 lb. bread overnight express! We decided to do a trial run to my brother-in-law in NJ.
Rye levain with caraway seeds inside and out @73.5% hydration. The little guy is for us here...
1200g x 1, 300g x 1
Both of those are gorgeous Alan, very nice.
Gorgeous.
Hey, you sly dog. Did you score the batard with opposing angles?
My head is spinning with possibilities...
just as I mentioned in the text msg, I score it the same as I do a baguette. As I do right here...
https://youtu.be/TGF3ApIXn6U?t=85
Who uses rice flour or a mixture of rice flour and wheat flour to keep the dough from sticking to the couche? I just ran out of rice flour and I am thinking about using tapioca starch mixed with bread flour as a substitute for the rice flour/wheat flour blend. Does anybody have any experience with that combination?
For the couche I used rice flour alone once and it work really well. I’ve since switched to flour alone and it too is working well, but then again, the baguettes are in the couche for a very short period of time since I shape after cold retard is complete.
I've never used rice flour.
Hello everyone. DayAyo invited me to join your group. I participate in various Sourdough groups on social media and I have YouTube channel, The Sourdough Journey, where I have created a number of experiment-based sourdough baking videos. Here is my most recent video, a 4-part series looking at the impact of bulk fermentation handling techniques on open crumb. My videos are long-format, observational videos that include every step of the process.
A Five-Loaf Experiment – Impact of Bulk Fermentation on Open Crumb (Photo is at the bottom).
I’m continuing my multiple-loaf experiments. This one was interesting. I made 5 loaves with different handling techniques in bulk fermentation, and baked them with no pre-shaping and no final shaping to isolate the impact of different handling techniques.The 5 loaves were (from left to right):Loaf 1: No Knead (no handling after initial mix)Loaf 2: 4 Stretch and FoldsLoaf 3: 8 Stretch and FoldsLoaf 4: 4 Coil FoldsLoaf 5: 5 Coil Folds and 1 Lamination (between coil folds 2 and 3)All 5 loaves were from the same batch of dough. I followed the Tartine Basic Country Loaf recipe for all (78% hydration). The loaf weight, bulk fermentation time, temperature and baking times were all identical. After bulk fermentation, all of the loaves went into loaf pans (with no preshaping and no final shaping) for overnight cold retard. They were baked in a dutch oven the next morning. Note: I also counted the number of “layers” created in each loaf through the handling methods and it is indicated below. Also note: These are small loaves (250g flour weight) so the "big holes" are smaller than they appear here as compared to the crumb view of a standard full-sized loaf.Assessment of the 5 Loaves:Loaf 1 (Zero layers): This loaf shows the work of the yeast alone, with no human hands after mixing. It creates a fairly nice, regular crumb but does not create much height in the dough.Loaf 2 (16 layers): This is the classic “Tartine” loaf which creates a somewhat open irregular crumb. Again, not much height due to fairly light handling. This loaf needs some help in preshaping and final shaping to build the height.Loaf 3 (32 layers): This is essentially a “heavy handled” Tartine loaf with 8 stretch and folds continuing late in the process (3.5 hours into bulk). The crumb is more dense due to more handling, especially later into bulk. The late handling had more impact than the number of folds, in my opinion.Loaf 4 (32 layers): The four coil folds created much more height and structure to the dough. The crumb is somewhat more open but this appears to be added air from the coil folding.Loaf 5 (48 layers): The 5 coil folds plus lamination created a nicely shaped loaf – very good height and symmetry with no preshaping and no final shaping. Very similar to loaf #4. It is also showing some added air bubbles in the crumb from the coil folds/lamination.Findings:- All five of these loaves had surprisingly good structure coming out of bulk fermentation. Don’t let pre-shaping and final shaping screw up a potentially great loaf!
- All of the handling methods created decent looking crumb and there was much less difference in the crumb across the five loaves than expected. The was a very noticeable difference in the structure (height, tension, symmetry) across the 5 loaves. This was surprising.
- The coil folded loaves looked almost like final shaped loaves. The height and structure created through coil folding would allow for very light handling in preshaping and final shaping. The crumb had more air and probably needed more rest time between folds or some degassing to help amalgamate the crumb. I gave all loaves 30-minute rests between handling. The coil folded loaves would have benefitted from a longer rest between rounds (45-60 min), in my opinion.
This experiment also illustrates the bulk fermentation component of what I call “The Structure Chain.” The final crumb of the loaf is the combination of bulk fermentation + preshaping + final shaping. Very loose dough coming out of bulk fermentation (e.g., Loaf 1 and 2) needs more pre and final shaping. Very strong dough coming out of bulk fermentation (Loaves 4 and 5) can work with much looser pre-shaping and final shaping (in fact, you could probably skip pre-shaping in these two loaves). Lastly, with Loaf 3, when you create a dense crumb in bulk fermentation, nothing you do in preshaping and final shaping can re-open a dense crumb.I recorded this entire process in a very long, 4-part video series if you are interested. Part 4 is a good summary, but if you really want to learn the details, every step is included in parts 1-3. Part 1 also includes a good overview and tutorial of the four methods for those who are not familiar with these methods. It also demonstrates how I counted the “layers” in each of the methods.Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMNnFRtsaxxz0qmcEkSqPH6gLVRRswKjjThanks for joining our gang. We invite you to join in on our current Community Bake. We are working to perfect our baguettes. See the link below, if you are interested. The OP will explain the concept.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/64622/community-bake-baguettes-alfanso
I really enjoy your comparative YouTube experiments! I am working my way through them...
Danny
Thank you. I reposted again with better formatting and the photo. Just figuring out the editor.
This new video series just came out today. It's one of my more interesting ones.
Welcome to the TFL forums Tom and to our Community Bake for Baguettes specifically. I’ve been following your YouTube videos but cannot keep up with all the videos you have put out in a seemingly short time. The ones that I have watched have all been extremely well done and informative. I love the experiment types where you illustrate your findings in your baking experiments like the one you outline above. I look forward to your posts here and hope to continue to learn from you as I have learned from so many other great bakers here and elsewhere on the internet.
Benny
@Tom _ Your inclination toward an Edisonian approach to sourdough is greatly admired and highly respected. Looking forward to more enlightnment from your very well designed and exquisitely executed experiments.
Doc
Welcome aboard Tom!
It is exciting to see you here. I need to catch up on your most recent experiments. It is well-timed in regards to our community bake.
Thanks for sharing your experiments.
Jen
Hello everyone.
DayAyo invited me to join your group.
I participate in various Sourdough groups on social media and I have YouTube channel, The Sourdough Journey, where I have created a number of experiment-based sourdough baking videos. Here is my most recent video, a 4-part series looking at the impact of bulk fermentation handling techniques on open crumb. My videos are long-format, observational videos that include every step of the process.
A Five-Loaf Experiment – Impact of Bulk Fermentation on Open Crumb (Photo is at the bottom).
I’m continuing my multiple-loaf experiments. This one was interesting.
I made 5 loaves with different handling techniques in bulk fermentation, and baked them with no pre-shaping and no final shaping to isolate the impact of different handling techniques.
The 5 loaves were (from left to right):
Loaf 1: No Knead (no handling after initial mix)
Loaf 2: 4 Stretch and Folds
Loaf 3: 8 Stretch and Folds
Loaf 4: 4 Coil Folds
Loaf 5: 5 Coil Folds and 1 Lamination (between coil folds 2 and 3)
All 5 loaves were from the same batch of dough. I followed the Tartine Basic Country Loaf recipe for all (78% hydration). The loaf weight, bulk fermentation time, temperature and baking times were all identical. After bulk fermentation, all of the loaves went into loaf pans (with no preshaping and no final shaping) for overnight cold retard. They were baked in a dutch oven the next morning. Note: I also counted the number of “layers” created in each loaf through the handling methods and it is indicated below. Also note: These are small loaves (250g flour weight) so the "big holes" are smaller than they appear here as compared to the crumb view of a standard full-sized loaf.
Assessment of the 5 Loaves:
Loaf 1 (Zero layers): This loaf shows the work of the yeast alone, with no human hands after mixing. It creates a fairly nice, regular crumb but does not create much height in the dough.
Loaf 2 (16 layers): This is the classic “Tartine” loaf which creates a somewhat open irregular crumb. Again, not much height due to fairly light handling. This loaf needs some help in preshaping and final shaping to build the height.
Loaf 3 (32 layers): This is essentially a “heavy handled” Tartine loaf with 8 stretch and folds continuing late in the process (3.5 hours into bulk). The crumb is more dense due to more handling, especially later into bulk. The late handling had more impact than the number of folds, in my opinion.
Loaf 4 (32 layers): The four coil folds created much more height and structure to the dough. The crumb is somewhat more open but this appears to be added air from the coil folding.
Loaf 5 (48 layers): The 5 coil folds plus lamination created a nicely shaped loaf – very good height and symmetry with no preshaping and no final shaping. Very similar to loaf #4. It is also showing some added air bubbles in the crumb from the coil folds/lamination.
Findings:
This experiment also illustrates the bulk fermentation component of what I call “The Structure Chain.” The final crumb of the loaf is the combination of bulk fermentation + preshaping + final shaping. Very loose dough coming out of bulk fermentation (e.g., Loaf 1 and 2) needs more pre and final shaping. Very strong dough coming out of bulk fermentation (Loaves 4 and 5) can work with much looser pre-shaping and final shaping (in fact, you could probably skip pre-shaping in these two loaves). Lastly, with Loaf 3, when you create a dense crumb in bulk fermentation, nothing you do in preshaping and final shaping can re-open a dense crumb.
I recorded this entire process in a very long, 4-part video series if you are interested. Part 4 is a good summary, but if you really want to learn the details, every step is included in parts 1-3. Part 1 also includes a good overview and tutorial of the four methods for those who are not familiar with these methods. It also demonstrates how I counted the “layers” in each of the methods.
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMNnFRtsaxxz0qmcEkSqPH6gLVRRswKjj
Dan is perhaps the most tenacious, or at least tied for the most tenacious, of our intrepid TFL crew. At this moment in time he has graciously hosted about a dozen of these Community Bakes over the past three years. The purpose of the bakes is to participate in some form or other with the focus purely on the specific bake, and its ofttimes stepchildren. And Dan does this by openly welcoming the experienced and enticing the "timid"to participate in that unique focus.
This iteration focuses on my take of a Jeffrey Hamelman formula designed as baguettes as a starting point. And which has grown exponentially with both knowledge and participation by the dwindling few at this point. Or, in the case of prior Community Bakes, any other individually targeted and focused dough and the eventual outcome, sidetracks well within the bounds of the specific topic.
The anticipation and expectation is that all participants will become part of the Community Bake by actually attempting one or more of the bakes in question, or to be an observing curious sort who participates by learning and asking questions. We are not interested in competition here, again the focus of the comments posted are virtually all in reference to the specific Community Bake or something acutely associated. To date, we have had something like 700 comments, all on this specific bake, and rarely has anyone strayed much off the general "guidelines".
TFL has ample space for folks who wish to post whatever it is that is of curiosity and/or interest to them, whether it is to display our prized bakes, our failures in the hopes of further participation and correction in regards to the failures, and also to ask questions and proffer tips and help to those in "need". That is the overall thrust of the general TFL forums.
The thrust of the Community Bake is to focus on the topic at hand. Again, there is ample room on TFL for anyone and everyone to participate in any manner they so choose, and hopefully they do. as long as the topic is baking and in these forums, almost exclusively bread.
We, I can say we, as I am co-hosting the forum with Dan, although by every means a willing body to those whose input has come to represent co-"ownership" while sharing in our endeavor, would love to have your input and participation within the scope of the Community Bake. If you wish to comment, supplement, add to, correct and especially submit your baguette bakes, we would love to entertain your input. And from what we have gathered from your in depth videos, there is much to learn from you.
Consider posting your baguettes here. I, and I'm certain Dan also, look forward to your further participation in this or any upcoming Community Bake where we can all focus on the singular topic at hand.
Welcome aboard TFL island. alan
I had some left over levain today so I am making another batch of baguettes, roughly based on the Boubasa formula (less grain in final dough because of AP levain, and spelt not wholewheat) I plan to room temperature bulk ferment . There has been much discussion here on shaping dough part way through the retard. So if I retard for a couple of hours (? how many - 2-3 perhaps) then leave 12 hours plus in fridge before scoring and baking cold.
is that a sensible plan?
Leslie
I retarded a 1600g batch of dough today from a starting temp of 80°F down to 40°F in 5 hrs at 38°F refrigerator temperature. But there is a pretty big circulating blower in there to keep the air moving. The dough was about 2" thick and it took all of that time to get there. Thinner will go faster.
at just under 900 g (just 3 small baggies) and all I have is home refrigerator. I am thinking of retarding in about 3 hours (it will be 7 pm here) then shaping about 10 pm and retarding until 10 or 11 am tomorrow. or iS it better. to retard earlier, shape and bench proof in the morning (as per instructions). the discussion here has tweaked my interest in an alternative way. dough temp is about 70°f atm. BF & s and f will take another 1.5-2 hours.
I have 2 other breads also under way that I will shape & retard as usual this evening and bake tomorrow.
Leslie
Retard until the dough handling qualities match your skill and capability. If you can do that before you go to bed that is fine, otherwise just wait. Once the dough gets to ~40°F things are moving pretty slow and mañana will be just fine. Tom Cucuzza's point that the earlier in the BF cycle you stop handling the dough, the better the crumb looks (in terms of openness). If you achieve the right amount ot dough strenghening during folding as part of BF, then preshaping and final shaping can do more harm than good.
There may be an argument in there that suggests that we should do a proper BF and immediately shape then let final proof complete the fermentation for us (isn't that the classic way bread has been made forever? So maybe there is a good reason for it.) In that context it may be appropriate to ask when in the chilling interval you should shape. I have spent the last few cycles gradually increasing BF time and PFF while slowly reducing the protein content of the flour by mixing AP w/ high gluten flour. And in the process I am comparing long retard times (overnight) with just enough time to get the dough cold. So far everything is getting better except that long retard only affects the flavor and not the crumb at all (these are all sourdough baguettes).
I am also sure that Jen will drop some of her wisdom in here when she thinks she has it under control.
in an hour or so and maybe I will shape 1 then and 1 at bedtime and 5he ladt one in the morning and see if there is a difference. you have given me more food for thought.
thank you, always more to learn
Leslie
Keep good records in your lab book :-) You need to capture all of the manipulations from the time flour hits water. There is a lot of research that has been done to quantify the strain energy that is required to develop the gluten. It shows up as heat during a high intensity mix, but is not well measured for folding. And the quality of the gluten has an impact as does the absolute dough temperature. And if you add any reducing agents (like nutritional yeast or L-cysteine) then you don't need as much energy but I have no idea how to calibrate how much less. Generally your hands will tell you. Coil folds are a gentle way to introduce strain without a lot of stress so they are not as effective as stretch and fold or slap and fold or French folds.
Once your dough is cold I don't expect much change in handling properties or much difference in crumb if you don't warm it up before you bake. If you let it warm up before you bake it then there will be some additional yeast activity as well as some of the dissolved CO2 will come out of solution and look like fermentation (though it is just the result of fermentation that happened during the cool down when there was no increase in volume because the CO2 was absorbed by the liquid phase of the dough rather than staying as a gas and serving to further inflate the alveoli).
but I will post the pictures.
From right to left:
Shaped and then retarded 15 hours. Very extensible, hard to shape. it had puddled a bit by bed time so I pushed it together again in couche
Middle baggie: Shaped after 3 hours retard then retarded 12 hours. better to shape, held shape better
Left hand baggie: made it a bit shorter. It was very easy to shape.
All were about 285 g dough. I removed from fridge when I turned oven on to heat so they sat for an hour at room temperature of about 21 degrees C. Scoring was a challenge because they had softened and puffed up. I put a pizza stone above and one below the baking shelf, with lava rocks for steam for first 10 minutes at about 230 deg C which is about as hot as the oven goes even though it was set for 260 deg C. Another 10 minutes bake without steam and then a another 3 minutes as they hadn't browned up enough.
Crumb shot:
The best crumb was the 3rd baggie shaped after 15 hours retard (top left) and the worst was the 2nd one (top right) I think. This was using Boubasa formula slightly modified.
The previous bake as per CB start was by far a much easier bake than this one. I will own up to being disappointed and frustrated. I don't get through enough bread to bake so often. Still glad to have had another go though.
Leslie
Leslie, I hope my oven never breaks. Baking with a new oven looks like a real challenge. It is amazing how the crumb differs from bread to bread. Baguettes are unforgiving. I dare say if we can learn to perfect (within reason) baguettes, that all other breads will become more easy. You can’t cheat a baguette...
Hope all is well with you.
I saw your FB pictures of Rene’.
Danny
I think I will stick with batards for now though. I am amazed at what you guys are achieving, such good stuff and great photos.
thanks Danny,
Leslie
Doc, we should all use POO at the start of our posts. POO= personal opinion only. A rather fitting acronym for opinions.
Back to dough handling. I'm all giddy over this line of thinking. This was my super secret thought process but I was trying to flesh it out before I spoke up.
All in all, what we are talking about is really a Bouabsa-like handling. We know that that handling creates an extremely open crumb. What we have to figure the correct timing to account for SD development for awesome oven spring.
Essentially, we have a high hydration dough that has some manual gluten development and all handling completed early in the BF.
For sourdough, my current unproven theory is the next step depends on when the dough is shaped. It needs a decent BF to 30% or so overall. If the dough is going into retard as a single mass, it would go in much earlier because the BF is going to continue for a while as it cools. If the dough is being shaped first the dough is going to cool faster. The BF would be longer, shaped and into retard.
I have been trying to replicate the Bouabsa handling on a high hydration SD. I made one batch with AP starter and one with a mix of AP and wheat and rye. I didn't take into account the time to cool a doubled batch and it went too far in BF. The crumb was open but not quite right. I'll post it as a bake.
As for flavor, I baked another Tartine Country Loaf mutation with all AP. After a 48 hour retard, it was pretty smashing. I'm baking one tomorrow at 7 days old. Excited to see what happens flavor-wise. One additional factor to influence crumb in retard in the home environment could be how controlled the retard is. I have 2 fridges. One is seldom opened and if dough goes into it, it cools fast and stops rising. My main fridge is opened frequently and dough grows and grows and grows.
I haven't made dough in a couple of days- itching to get back to it now.
Jen - I am all ears (no pun intended) but looking to deconstruct the process into orthogal operations to the extent possible. With sourdough we use low temperatures to stiffen a batch of dough and to slow the yeast and give the LAB a relative advantage so that they can continue to make acid while the yeast is just barely awake.
There is another way to perhaps get acidity without spending the time in the retarder (unless you need a fairly stiff dough for ease of handling). That is to use a very long and very wet levain build to get both a higher LAB numerical density (which increases the rate of acid production late in the process) and more early acid in the levain. The high hydration of the levain dilutes the acid (but does not impact the pH much) so that the LAB can replicate longer (they are sensitive to both pH and TTA), and will continue to produce acid for a long time after they stop replicating (so long as there is still sugar for them to consume) at around pH=3.8 or a little lower. My tests show that the TTA of a levain continues to climb fairly linearly until the LAB run out of food while pH very slowly slides down toward 3.6.
So describe how you want to reorganize Bouabsa to run it as a sourdough baguette process. What is going on at each stage and how do we know we are done or making progress and when do we advance to the next step/stage. What can we control and what are the knobs and switches that we can adjust? Can we separate what we are trying to accomplish so that we can control each of the endpoints independently (though I doubt we will be that lucky even with good design).
Over to you!
all in a dream
The loading had begun.
Flying Mother Nature's golden seed to a new home in the sun.
with apologies to After the Gold Rush by Neil Young
The Super Peel doesn't seem to be available right now and it wasn't wide enough for side loading baguettes anyway so I made my own out of scrap 3/8" plywood and canvas. I hope it works like I imagined. It is 19" wide and fairly easy to make.If it works out I may get a nicer piece of lumber and do it proper.
The Super Duper Peel
Nice, Don! Do you think it will be light enough to handle once it is loaded with dough?
I like your routed edges and design. It shows pride in your work...
I don't think it will be a problem for three baggies. This is the prototype for now it may require a nicer smoother piece of plywood with a slick finish but it seems fine with the dry runs I have been doing adjusting the belt tension. I was a cabinet maker in early adulthood so the next version will be a little more refined. It might be possible with 1/4" ply but that could bind the conveyor belt on the edges.
And the way that bakery loaders work.
Don't let it bring you down, it's only baguettes burning...
I like the central handle for strength (which could be reinforced if needed) and the fabric tracks split to left and right. Easy enough to scale up to any width and length you need. You could probably put an aluminum roller at the business end with at least bushings on the ends to allow it to spin (and small bearings if you wanted to go to the work.)
Amazon currently shows it in stock
I own a custom sized Super Peel that was made to the same size as my smaller stone when the builder just started out. I totally agree with you about the split canvas (on bottom only) with a handle.
The weight of the dough that is loaded in the oven is a consideration where friction is concerned. If I were to build one to fit my larger stone, I would use 1/4” plywood with 1/2 inch dowel running the full length on the front and also on the back ((stopped at the rear handle). The dowel would be machined on the table saw or router with a 1/4” groove and glued to the plywood to round the edges in order to reduce the friction point. The dowel would be highly polished and possibly waxed. I think that would make the canvas slid with more ease.
But, the LOADING BOARD is working flawlessly for all side loadings so far. The push stick makes sure the dough falls perfectly straight on the stone.
It worked fine as is. There was some friction but not enough to disrupt loading. The 3/8" is the right thickness and the weight is not an issue. The leading edge is nice and helps push the batons into exact location while straightening them. and does not hinder movement. The resistance comes from the back groove and the plywood which would be helped by having a slick surface or less tension on the belt. Otherwise fine as is and the baggies are blooming now in oven.
It is said, “practice makes perfect”. But how much practice? This is the 17th bake and I still have a long row to hoe.
...but the harder I work to achieve something, the more I appreciate it when I do.
This bake used T65 @ 72.5% hydration and was very developed via mixing and 300 slap & folds and a couple of S&F. This flour will not accept a lot of water. It was pre-shaped cold, rested and then shaped. They proofed in the couche for about 30 minutes. Scoring was nigh on impossible, similar to trying to score a ballon that was filled with Vaseline. BUT, no matter how they bake up they crispy, crunchy, and crumb texture never disappoint.
The theme of this bake
Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers... We said, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
The crumb is showing improvements. I tested my 6 year old CY and discovered it was weak, so I upped the percentage from 0.16% to 0.24%. A new pound is on order.
Danny
Fantastic crumb Dan, well done.
Benny
Benny, may have been the slight extra amount of yeast and/or the fact that the dough was fermented a little more.
The dough was barely pre-shaped with the slightest rounding and left to rest. It was then shaped rather gently. Not sure what caused the crumb, though.
and must be a little like Christmas morning cutting them open after the look of the crust. I've recently found that there's a fine dance between too much or too little tension to apply to the dough as it is being shaped. And as with so many other things, perhaps it is the old "getting to know the specific dough" circumstance, which ones benefit from a tighter shaping and which from a loose shaping.
The lack of coloration is a surprise sine your crusts have been coming out heavenly for a while now.
Alan, they were purposely baked up lighter. It’s actually my preference.
I wonder if a mixture of American pastry flour and all purpose flour mix wouldn’t produce similar results as the more expensive french flour.
I was thinking about that myself since I ran out of T55. Another benefit of getting the pastry flour is that my pie crusts should be more tender than before. Maybe when I run low on the AP I might replace it with pastry flour and then use a blend of bread flour and pastry flour. My bread flour also has the same 13.3% protein that the AP has.
Other than guess as to the final protein percentage of your flour mix, try using Pearson's Square. The example in the link is for using VWG to bump up the protein percentage, but can be used for any flour mix.
The Pearson's Square is used to calculate mixed feed for farm animals, but can be used to accurately calculate mixes of flour when you want to increase or decrease the amount of gluten/protein in the flour.
I watched a non-bread related video yesterday (gasp) that basically said when you start to learn, one danger is thinking you know everything. Bread never gives us that opportunity. It constantly keeps us in check and reminds us how much we don't know.
One thing I find of interest is the formation of the open crumb. One loaf has randomized rounded pockets. The other is oval and run perpendicular to the length. You may not recall but did that loaf require more manipulation to get into shape?
I did take my hand and gently pull one of the doughs in oder to stretch it out longer. Maybe that’s it.
I like the elongated crumb. It may become a technique for me :-)
And how long before baking? The one with the round cells looks like it fermented a fair amount after shaping and the one with the extended cell structure had to have been elongated late enough that the alveoli did not have time to get sperical before they were set by the heat of the oven (since oven spring does not stretch the dough axially).
Doc, these were shaped (without pre-shaping) at the end of retardation. They were proofed on the couche for approximately 20 minutes, then slashed and baked.
I do remember using both hands to pull apart 1 or 2 of the doughs because they were shrinking back and I wanted more length.
I like the elongated crumb. Wished it could be consistently duplicated. Tom Cucuzza and his YouTube channel is causing me to think differently about how the crumb is formed. I plan to work my way through his entire YouTube channel.
when I shape flabby dough. Feels like there are a bunch of chopsticks inside, rubbing against each other when it rolls out.
The easiest to shape dough for me by far is Alan’s version of Pain au Levain. It is also the best to score, IMO.
I really don’t like shaping a baguette dough that is airy (puffy). Baguettes are distinctly different from your basic sourdough. The skillset is very unique.
That's a blue ribbon. It may be that the higher hydration is prone to bake a less defined top with less of an ear but more oven spring. Alan is right about the Joie de mie when you filet one out like that. The eating quality is hard to beat on the light and crispy ones. Score quickly on the soft ones is what sometimes works for me with my left hand following behind out of cutting range holding the dough.
As I read over my Bake #17, “ It was pre-shaped cold, rested and then shaped. They proofed in the couche for about 30 minutes. Scoring was nigh on impossible, similar to trying to score a ballon that was filled with Vaseline.”
Not sure that wet T65 will score warm, at least not by me. So, it may be wise to proof the dough 30-60 minutes after shaping and then return to the retarder to allow the dough to set up some.
I have been doing this as well, that is, after final shaping and in the couche, they go back into the fridge until the oven finishes fully coming to temperature. I’m not sure I’ve tried scoring these at room temperature, they are challenging enough cool let alone even softer at room temperature.
Baguette au Levain - same formula (Abel) with the following changes, NY 0.25%, diastatic malt 0.5%, 73% hydration, all AP flour 13.3% protein. No slap and folds used, Rubaud used when adding salt and additional 15 g of water. BF 80ºF about 2 hours 15 mins with only one coil fold. Cold retard en bulk.
21 hours later preheated oven 500ºF, this time aluminum stuffed broiling rack with baking steel on second lowest rack, silvia towel on oven floor and cast iron skillet on top rack. Pre-shaped loosely in a roll, bench rested 10-15 mins. Then shaped on Silpat. I believe the NY helped with extensibility as they were easier to stretch than expected, but I think going to 75% hydration next time might also help a bit.
When placed in the couche, I didn’t flour the dough sufficiently on the exposed part of the dough so when I flipped the first one out it stuck badly to the transfer board, damaging it when trying to remove it from the board. Of course I floured the remaining two immediately to prevent this from happening to them.
I scored this at about a 45* angle and tried to score more deeply. I think I have a bit more of an ear in a few places and think that this scoring is the way to go rather than so parallel to the dough surface. The browning took a long time, after the steaming of 13 mins baking at 500ºF they took an additional 19 mins to fully brown. I might go back up to 1% diastatic malt next time. I still need to work on my shaping.
Benny, these look pretty darned good. I'd be happy to find out that the blade angle was really the culprit and now the savior. And so would you! Consistently good scoring. There's a boatload of top notch baguettes out there where the ear raises no further than yours. If that is your goal, there is some still some work to do, but it would be anything but heartbreaking if this were to be your signature result and look going forward.
The shaping on these looks really good, with the baguette on the right being the clear blue ribbon winner.
At 32 total minutes for a full bake @500dF, something seems fishy. I "never" bake that high, almost always at 460-480 and the longest I think my dough is in the oven for a long batard up to ~450g is something like 26 minutes with a followup of 2-3 minutes of oven venting usually with the oven off. And the outcome is always darker than your bake here. It isn't whether you like the darker bake or not, but why would you get such different coloration at the higher temp and longer bake with essentially a similar dough? However, consistent coloration throughout the batons with just a hair darker shade on the tapering ends is worth writing home about.
Whatever the crumb looks like, and I'll go with your recent open crumb successes, this bake certainly looks to be another step in the right direction.
alan
I am still having challenges of having enough flour without too much or too little on the silpat for the ideal friction for rolling out. Next time I think I will go back to shaping and rolling directly on the countertop, I'm not sure that the silpat is improving my shaping so will need to switch back to compare.
One thing I didn't do was spritz with water, but I then also forgot to brush on some water with my pastry brush after brushing off the excess flour, have to remember to do that next time. I don't think moving the baking rack up a spot was helpful for oven spring, as these had a bit less spring in them and the bottoms aren't quite as well baked as before this may have also affected the overall browning I'm not sure. Also I didn't switch to convection after taking the steaming stuff out, which also may have affected browning. I'll go back to the set up as I photographed above as I think that was better. Amazing that after this many bakes I'm still working out the best set up to bake!
I hope that the crumb is good again, that would be a bonus, I didn't crowd them as tightly in the couche this time so they had more room between each other so we'll see if that reduces the tightness of the crumb along the side walls.
I'm going to focus less on ears and try to get more consistent shaping, but I will score about the same again at about a 45* angle and try to get a bit more depth, my scores may still be too superficial. Getting back to the old set up may increase the oven spring and help the ears next time anyhow.
Thanks for your comments Alan, they are always helpful.
The crumb from the last set that had some T55 flour in them (33%) was more successful than these. I wonder if I had them on the lower rack if they would have sprung better and had better crumb. The bottoms weren’t nearly as browned on these leading me to think that they didn’t get that initial burst of extreme heat. I had the silvia towel positioned immediately below the broiling rack set up and perhaps that reduced the temperature somewhat being constantly steamed. I guess I’ll have a better idea after another bake, although, I will also be onto a new flour as I found some 12% AP flour yesterday that I’ll try out.
The flavour of these is alright, not as good as the T55 or even the T55 blended with AP. They definitely had more chew and were slightly less crispy, some of this might have been related to the bake.
They made decent sandwiches for dinner though. Roasted some chicken thighs and made some mayo.
My neighbor s an avid cake baker, so I used some of her Gold Metal AP flour. This week a Famag was delivered, so I am adjusting to a new machine. This was a good test (blind), because I forgot I was using GM AP. Machine mixed for ~10 minutes, but the dough didn’t seem strong enough. 100 slap and folds were performed and the dough gained good strength. Shaped after BF, couched, and retarded overnight. In hind sight, it would have benefited the crumb to allow the dough to proof a little on the counter.
It was a great test because it was virtually a blind bake. Remember, I thought this was French T65. It could be justified that the crumb was tight because the final proof was omitted, but the flavor was completely off. I couldn’t imagine how the T65 all of a sudden taste so bad. It was not a good flavor at all. Don’t drink champagne if all you can afford is kool aid :-)
Bottom Line -
Gold Metal flour is not by bag.
Despite that you now have incredible ears!!! What is your new secret to these new fangled amazing ears Dan? My hearing impaired (no offense intended) baguettes want to know.
IMO, the oven setup has a lot to do with ears. Others things are also important but none more important that the oven setup.
I will go back to my last oven setup, the one today led to less than stellar oven spring and probably compromised the chance of ears and probably the crumb which I’ll find out about at dinner time.
Defaming my preferred Gold Medal AP flour won't make you any friends at Chez Moi. Until I was able to start buying KA AP at basically the same price, G.M. was my standard go-to brand. I still use their Bread Flour for a slightly higher protein kick than the KA AP.
Your crust looks just fantastic, and I see that you're now taking alfanso-like profile photos too!
Don't discount the use of the new (congrats) mixer. and just like figuring out how to use a new oven, figuring out how to best employ the mixer is another skill to learn. If you can determine the RPMs and correlate that to what, for instance, Mr. Hamelman states, that should be a good start. But unless you figured it out and/or your mixer only has 1 speed, 10 minutes seems too long. Or perhaps the amount of dough in the mixer is insufficient for the minimal quantity.
A typical Hamelman mix seems to be 3 min on 1st, 3-3.5 on 2nd. The Famag IM-8 from Pleasant Hills, runs at 80 RPM on 1st, and 240 RPM on 2nd.
And a point you made to me a while ago correlates to my mantra. You said something like "we aren't getting any younger so why no splurge on the things we want". Mine, for the past several years, has been that I spent my entire life saving for a rainy day. Well, that rainy day has arrived.
Unfortunately, Covid is keeping me prisoner for the past few months and foreseeable future.
I knew my take on Gold Metal would bring you out :-) Taste is a subjective thing, but for me (after eating French flour) there is a very clear winner for baguettes that stands high above all others.
Years ago I told my wife the exact same thing. “We’ve lived a conservative life style saving up for a rainy day. Look around Patsy, it’s pouring down.” LOL
As far as the glamour shots, I had to copy the master...
Changes from run #1. Add 0.25% NY., baked directly out of retard. That's it! Still using all KA AP flour.
The NY was mixed it in with the flours, but should have been sprinkled directly into the water for better absorption. A little better shaping although still some work to do. For the long batard size, the shaping of this dough is simpler and more consistent than this is. Scoring has improved, but still needs to find some consistency.
I was able to roll these out with less elastic properties than the first run which was without the NY. Still shrunk back 1 inch. My hand peel just happens to be a hair under 22" in length, so it makes for a good guide when rolling out the baguettes. And just big enough to move the dough from couche to oven peel.
Overall I'm pleased with this bake, which has a good crumb, and those scores that did work fit into the "signature" alfanso scoring pattern. To be continued, but first I'll bake something else.
Bassinage on final mix, 200 French Folds with ~5 min rest halfway through. 3 Letter Folds at 20,40,60 min. and then into retard. Shaped at about the mid-way point for ~20 hour retard. Baked directly from retard, no warmup, oven to 480dF, 13 min with steam, rotated and 10 min more, 2 min vent.
325g x 3 Baguettes
Alan, they look so..., French! There’s something nice looking about the longer baguettes.
You wrote, “ Shaped at about the mid-way point for ~2 hour retard.” Did you only retard 2 hours in total. If that is the case the dough was only allowed to ferment at RT for about 2 hours total, starting from when the levain was mixed it. That’s amazing and such a nice crumb.
NOTE - your oven really browns well.
No, not 2 hours. There is a trailing zero to the total retard time. Corrected to 20 hours. Good catch.
Yes the longer shaping gives the bread a more "elegant" look.
thanks, alan
I'm now steering clear of the close-in overhead incandescent bulb which almost always imparts that reddish tone. And now using the regular countertop for photos. This gives the bread a more realistic coloration.
And since this bake is at 480 vs. a lot of you folks running 500 or higher the question might be why do I get a darker brown? The oven has convection mode, which I still have never used for anything, but it may well tie back to the baking deck radiating wicked heat the whole time. I also reset the oven temp after I open the oven door to ensure that it fires back up to the desired temp. I do notice that the convection fan automatically turns on to help get the temp back up, and then shuts off when it reaches temp.
Alan - I like your idea to dissolve the NY in some liquid before incorporation rather than depending on mixing to do the dispersion, which it may not. Did you find some guidance on that or you just observing that you had identifiable chunks of NY in the dough after mixing?
I found that the 0.25% I used in my most recent batch did not have as much effectiveness as it had earlier and I wondered why. Perhaps this is a piece of the puzzle.
When I mixed all of the flours separately for the autolyse with IDY included, as per original instruction (as I recall), I noticed the small now browned bits of NY in the dough that had not been broken down. I figured that it might just be better to try and saturate them alone with the water prior to adding the remainder of the dry ingredients. We'll know better after I/we try it next time.
The 0.25% did not give the dough any significant extensibility, but just enough that the shaped baguettes only pulled back an inch from shaped length. The other day without the NY it was 2 inches, and was a bit of a work to roll them out to 21 inches. I'll take that for now as it's an improvement, and it didn't impart any noticeable "off-notes" to the flavor as the 2% did.
I don't know whether the NY was at play, but this run had a thinner crust than the prior did. Which in my book, and many others here, is a really good thing. As MTloaf stated "egg shell thin".
Hey everyone (and hey Dan and Alfonso!)! I'm late to the massive party here -- some incredible posts and great to see all of your baguettes. Dan asked me to drop in and see if I can add some tips to the discussion. I should say that my approach is just one of an infinite way to go about making these tricky sticks, and in the end, I find (perhaps more so than other shapes) they take putting in the repetitions. I'm sure many of you have put in the time with these, so I might be preaching to the choir :) My comments are below, and I must say, I'm by no means an expert with this dough or shape -- no matter how many times I make them I still am challenged (in a good way).
I tend to bulk retard my baguette dough for a few reasons:
Like many of you have posted, I also proof them en couche. I push this proof far, they're very delicate when I go to bake, and since I proof at room temperature, they can be hard to score. To help with this, I take my entire proofing board with couche and pop it into the fridge for 15-20 minutes to just barely firm up the exterior of the dough. This is not so much as to impart a thick crust, but just enough to make the dough slightly cold to the touch. Then I quickly take them out, score, load into the oven, and steam. If you're having trouble with scoring, this may help.
I'd suggest trying to make these with 100% white flour, and I tend to like lower protein white flour (11% or so) as it helps to lighten them up, and you get a more open interior with a thinner crust. Further, it helps to reduce the sourness in the end.
In general, I'm going for super-strong fermentation in the dough. After the bulk retard, I see lots of fermentation activity on the bottom of the dough when I go to shape: lots and lots of bubbles. Further, the dough is quite elastic and strong, but not so much as it's hard to shape and roll them out. I often hand mix this dough and only give it a few folds during bulk fermentation.
Shaping... What can we say? It's hard with baguettes and takes practice. There's a bunch of different methods out there, and I've gone through several of them. I'm not sure which I prefer, and I think it depends on the dough and the formula you're using. If it's an elastic, lower hydration dough you're working with, I might just do a few cinches (curling the dough up and tucking it in before rolling out), but if it's a higher hydration dough and feels extensible, I might opt for a shaping style as I have at my website (which is inspired by Jeffrey Hamelman and what he showed in his course in Washington I attended).
I find with baguettes, it's critical to get as much steam in the home oven as possible. Over steam it. I know this is a challenge for all of us home bakers, but it helps get that shiny, super-thin crust (assuming all else is lined up).
I've also played with direct doughs (meaning they're baked the same day they're mixed) quite a bit, while I haven't arrived on my preferred approach yet, here's a look at a result I've had lately.
This is a recent bake with bulk retarded dough that came out wonderful, but a bit tight in areas.
In the end, I find baguettes are a real test in finding balance. When shaping, you want to give the dough just enough tension to hold its shape through to baking, but not handle it so much that the dough is thoroughly degassed. For flavor, I'm always trying to find a clean, minimally sour baguette that's sweet and mild. Partly-whole grain baguettes start to move away from this ideal, but I do like baking with whole grains! To get that thin crust, a direct dough is one way to go or a bulk retard -- but either way, maximal steam is essential.
The baguettes below were bulk retarded, shaped in the morning, proofed en couche, and baked hot and fast with as much steam as I could throw at my home oven. The crust was thin and colored wonderfully -- I was totally happy with the results!
I hope these few tips help. I'm always learning and always practicing at these, a bread that seems simple but has complexity oozing from every step in the process.
So great that you’re able to join us here Maurizio!! Your beginner sourdough recipe was what got me off to a good start last year baking sourdough. Your instructions and guidance on your website are second to none.
It sounds like the process you’re doing is similar to what I’ve ended up doing most of the time. I have been handling the dough less and less during bulk fermentation to develop less gluten. I too bulk cold retard, then pre-shape, shape and then placed the couched baguettes in the fridge until the oven is at temperature.
I’m still trying to find that best oven setup for my oven and still working on the best flour for texture and flavour which is especially hard during the COVID-19 pandemic.
The baguette photo you posted looks outstanding especially for a fully levained baguette rather than my hybrid levain and IDY baguettes.
Benny
Thanks, I appreciate that! Yes, finding the right flour for baguettes is a challenge to be sure. I have liked Central Milling ABC Plus (which is malted) and Giusto's Artisan Bread Flour -- both are lower protein than typical "bread" flour, around 11%. I think finding softer wheat and dialing back the hydration will be a future goal of mine as well.
Thanks again and happy baking!
Maury, you wrote, “ I push this proof far, they're very delicate when I go to bake, and since I proof at room temperature, they can be hard to score”. You also mentioned “bubbles on the bottom at the completion of the BF”.
Please speak a little more on the clues you use to end both the BF and the Final Proof.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough post! We always appreciate your help.
Danny
When ending a bulk retarded dough there's little in terms of fermentation adjustment you can do at that point besides bringing it out and letting it warm up to ferment further on the counter. The dough should have been fermented far enough by the time you stick it in the fridge to keep it going while it cools and eventually until the time you pull it out. The challenge there is you have to adjust for the mass of the dough (which takes longer to cool), the container it's in, and the strength of your fridge. It's a bit of trial and error in your own kitchen.
For the final proof, I like my baguette dough to feel very aerated and soft. Poking with a finger will show the indentation return very slowly, not fully filling back in. If you bake them and you get super tall ears or excessive rise, proof longer next time to temper that oven spring. Conversely, if you see little to no rise, you've gone a bit too far.
I wished I had been more clear.
How to you determine the completion of the room temperature portion of the BF, before placing in the the fridge or retarder?
And a particularly excellent batard, gift of Maurizio, last November.
Very cool you guys met and you got to try some of Maurizio’s bread.
Ah, that was fun! Back when meeting up without masks was a thing. Was really great meeting and chatting bread, of course!
As you stated, we have all learned to respect the entire process of taking a few simple ingredients and making them into a nice baton. It doesn't come without practice or diligence and requires a steady hand. If anyone wants to improve or challenge their skills this is the bread to measure by.
I have learned so much about the sourdough process from your site and anytime someone ask me how to do sourdough, I send them to your place. I would also like to thank you for steering me towards the Oxo jar spatula that is my favorite can't do without bread tool.
Happy Baking Don
Totally agree. And thanks for spreading the word, Don! It's funny how a small tool can make life so much easier. Happy baking!
Well this was both promising and in the end disappointing.
Hamelman Baguette with Poolish formula, with some mods.
The shaping was heavenly and the first time that I’ve been able to get the dough to easily roll out to the full 21 inches and stay there. They were simple to remove from couche and load onto the oven peel.
The scoring and shaping seems really good to me and they looked so promising as they were loaded. But for the life of me, I don’t get the lack of grigne on these.
The crust is amazingly crunchy, a bit akin to glass bread, and the crumb is soft, but there is a distinct lack of flavor profile. Maybe these came out exactly as designed, and while being okay and something that I'd consider making again, are not much of a hit with me.
The good: Adding the NY to the water incorporates it fully. Easy to bump the hydration up by 2.4%. Dough felt great during pre-shape and final shape. First time with these longer loaves that I've reached consistent good shaping. Scoring was also a charm. Crust is delightful and super crisp but could be a tad thinner.
The bad: Lack of grigne is 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The crumb seems as though it should have opened more considering the dough did get a pretty good oven spring. The taste is fine, and may be exactly what a baguette should be, but just seems a little too insipid.
Anyone who wishes to chime in on the lack of grigne is certainly welcome. I feel as though I'm right back to that series of Martin Philip poolish baguettes from a month or so ago, and finally concluded then that my surface tension was part culprit.
Taking any and all suggestions here.
Here is my baking peel, well some of it anyway. Simple to load the baguettes sideways with the parchment.
Tea released..The halfway point.
The shaped dough looks absolutely gorgeous! Are you using your typical flour?
Like you, from the looks of the shaped dough, excellence would be expected.
Same steaming technique?
Question -
When loading 3 baguettes on a single parchment do they remain in the same exact spot you placed them, or do they move slightly on the paper? I’d have to staple my parchment to be large enough to fit the loading borad, but it might be worth a try. IMO, anything that reduces stress during that critical time and s worth the effort.
with every aspect and every step of the way. Once I load the dough and shut the door I habitually never even glance in through the door window to see what's going on - I'm used to knowing what to expect. So it was quite a surprise to see these when I released the steam.
Yes, steaming technique, pre bake heating for a hour all were the same. I can only guess that maybe these required more surface tension, as was my perceived problem with the Martin Philip baguettes - also a poolish IDY formula.
The loading of the dough is now pretty assured and accurate. I bring the masonite peel all the way into the oven, and with a slight shuffling movement deposit the first baguette at the rear. Once it and the parchment land I start to pull away and the most minimal effort is required to keep letting the other two drop, same little shuffling, if that. And that also keeps the parchment from "bunching up".
Alan, do you put any thing between the parchment and the board to enhance the slide? Like rice flour, corn meal, semolina, etc..
which is what I always use for the long batards. The parchment just slides off the peel easily. I'll reuse the parchment 3 or 4 times (ala dabrownman) until it basically crinkles and falls apart, but it never exhibits any problem coming off the peel.
Then I would guess they were over proofed a little. They look puffy going into the oven. I don't have that much experience with poolish baggies but I noticed they have to be done in a certain amount of time or they lose their strength. I would try it without retarding the shaped loaves to see if it changes the outcome. It sounds like your dough handled like mine the poolish adds a lot of strength. My bulk was two hours and less than 50% growth. I tried to stay at the 73 degree DT the whole time. They proofed for 45 minutes and had not grown much but when I see the gray bubbles in the dough I put them in the oven. The BBGA USA worked better for me than the Hammelman, plus it has a little SD in there to give it a little more flavor.
Don, did the SD thicken the crust or increase the chew?
The crust was crackly and thin and the crumb was very soft. I think the SD is in there in such a small amount that it is included for flavor only. It is a nice light baguette and very nice to work with but the long bulk retarded Bouabsa beats it on flavor alone. Definitely the BBGA USA is worth trying just for the handling.
Don, I baked the TeamUSA baguettes HERE. I don’t remember giving it a second try and things didn’t go well on the first. Up until that time I was high on Hamelman’s Pain au Levain, buT after baking the Bouabsa With straight CY and French flour I became hooked.
If you recall Jimbtv (introduced us to the Team USA formula) claimed that it didn’t produce outstanding ears but that his customers considered it their favorite.
What are you proposing? Sacre blue! You might want to try the Gold Medal again for that one or the KAFAP. You will have better luck next time with the wide experience you have now with white flour, yeast and holy.