This Community Bake (CB) will feature Jeffrey Hamelman's Swiss Farmhouse bread. It is a full flavored bread with no sour flavor. The dough is leavened with a Raisin Yeast Water (RYW). And raisins and walnuts are used to enhance the flavor of the bread. Abe has been after me for a long time to try this bread. And after finally getting around to baking it I can fully appreciate his enthusiasm. The flavor is unique and I'm certain that all who bake it will agree...
For those that may not be familiar with our Community Bakes, check out the top paragraphs in this LINK, for a little background.
Jeffrey Hamelman has given us permission to post his copyrighted formula and instructions. The Swiss Farmhouse bread is taken from his book, BREAD: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes (second edition), by Jeffrey Hamelman. Copyright 2013. Published by John Wiley & Sons. If you don't own this book, it is an all time favorite on TFL and definitely one to consider.
For those that don't have access to the book, the formula and instructions will be posted on the Community Bake.
Since this particular bread utilizes Yeast Water (YW) for the leaven, it seems best to host the bake it 2 parts. Part 1 will detail the instructions to make your own YW using only Raisins and water. It is much more simple to make than a sourdough starter and is generally mature and ready to use in 5 days or less. Everyone, including bakers that use commercial yeast are encouraged to participate. NOTE - the actual bake (Part 2) is scheduled to begin Friday, August 9.
By-the-way - any kind of yeast water will do...
Once your yeast water is active see THIS LINK for the formula and instructions to bake the bread.
Instructions to make a Raisin Yeast Water Starter, by Jeffrey Hamelman.
At least 5 days before the bake, soak 74 grams (2.6 ounces) of raisins in 179 grams (6.3 ounces) of cholrine free water. Organic raisin are preferred. Any additives or preservatives in the raisins should avoided. Cover and leave at warm room temperature (75-80F). White mold normally begins to cover the surface of the raisins, an indication that the liquid is ready. Occasionally, however, no mold is visible. Once the ferment starts to actively bubble and the smell is sweet and has a tangy aroma, it should be ready and the dough mixing process can begin. If your YW is ready before you want to bake, it can be left out on the counter for a few days, or stored in the refrigerator for much longer storage. NOTE - YW is not nearly as finicky as a sourdough starter and requires very low maintenance. Like sourdough starters, some have kept their YW for years.
I am not an authority on YW, but those that are, will be available to answer your questions.
Abe sent me a link for a good teaching video about making a Raisin Yeast Water (RYW). https://youtu.be/vcfuUtbnteY
If you are new to YW, be prepared to have a blast...
Danny
Abe you wrote, “If the raisins are floating and the mixture is bubbling it's got active yeasts. And even when the raisins begin to sink that's when you need to refresh with fresh raisins and water plus a tablespoon of yeast water as a nudge in the right direction.”
It is my understanding the when the raisins float they are exhausted. When the raisins are first put in the water they sink. It think that the floating/sinking is different for different fruit. I think some types of fruit are exhausted when they float and other when they sink. Is that correct?
Below is an image of 3 exhausted YW.
I thought the opposite. Floating means yeasts are active. Plenty of sugars left in the raisins. When the raisins sink I would think that's when the yeasts are running out of food and are exhausted.
These raisins have always worked for me. I am not sure if the raisins make the difference, but I am posting a link to the ones I always use. By-the-way. I’ve made 4 YW with them. If kept warm they rae read in 3-4 days.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L1GRDEI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
The image below shows my latest YW, which is being made now. All air was purged out of the glove. So much so, the glove was sucked slightly into the water.
Zoom in and notice the tiny fermentation bubbles.
The Yeast Water (YW) in this video was made 2 1/2 days ago. It is 60 hours old and was started using organic raisins and filtered water. The YW was kept in a proofer that maintained 84F. Notice the tiny fermentation bubbles that are constantly rising in the video. I used a latex glove to cover the jar. That way excess fermentation gas can expand the glove while keeping the liquid covered. In this case the jar was purged last night and when it was checked this morning to glove had blown off the top. I consider this YW ready to begin the levain building process. As a matter of fact, a levain was stared right after this video and will be used make Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread.
Just started YW today with Sunkist Raisins. Checked the ingredients, only raisins, so will keep an update. Just wondering if I should keep the jar outside where it is very warm. I have a small cabana that I can keep it in.
Sharon
so here is my latest bake of this lovely bread.
Sunday 12:15 pm Build 1 - refreshed YW day before so it bubbling and fizzing away. Here it is just mixed
and here it is at 7pm
7pm Build 2 - water and flour added, left overnight and here it is at 9:15 am Monday morning. It was cold overnight so I warmed it up for a couple of hours in microwave with door cracked open.
9:15 am added final water to 2nd build then slowly worked flour in. After 100 SLAFs I added salt then did another 120 SLAFs. Rested dough for 15 minutes the stretched dough out thinly and added chopped pecan nuts and a few macadamia nuts (I had not quite enough pecans) and the raisins, rolling it up then resting for 30 minutes. I then did 2 sets of S & F an hour apart. The dough bulk fermented for about 3 hours then preshaped.
I planned a 30 minute rest but a visitor meant it actually went for a bit longer.
Final shaping was at 4 pm. At 5:45 pm I decided it was ready so popped it in preheated DO, scored, spritzed loaf and baked at 235°C fan for 15 mins then removed lid for another 16 minutes.
Smells and looks great!
and of course the crumb shot
Just love this bread. This was my first bake in a while, really happy that YW survived its month long sleep in the fridge and is still active and strong.
Leslie
Glad to hear you are home and safe. Hope you had a great time!
The bread looks perfect. Did you find the dough was super resilient? Very strong?
I hadn’t actually thought about it like that. It was certainly not particularly easy to do the stretches, it was very gentle stretches for sure. Shaping was a breeze too.
Thanks Danny
Leslie
Great vid, thanks Danny. Hamelman calls for 78-80 and the vid calls for 82-96, might try 82 at least. Also, the taller container is great - even on day 2, it seems, raisins floating and I suspect that's early yeast. This will be fun.
Good luck with that experiment, Paul!
I tried it twice. Hamelman's instructions (or schedule) didn't work in my case, simply not enough time. In five days I had no working culture for baking. The bread failed.
I started another one and in full ten days at 81F/27C I had an excellent raisin water going. It was absolutely calm with a small island of mold floating on top. Raisins were floating near the bottom by that time. So, it was easy to remove the patch of mold and to drain the water brew to use it for the recipe. The dough exploded, it behaved exactly as described in the recipe and the bread was delicious.
I chopped raisins in half for that, so there was plenty of sugar for yeast to eat.
This experiment taught me a lot, both the homemade liquid yeast (essentially a water brew) and the bread itself. Hamelman's book is simply the best in that regard.
Yumm, beautiful! Thanks mariana, that helps a lot and gives me something to really look forward to - this seems so delicious and unique. I really like Hamelman too. Strong formulas I've loved, every one I've tried (even the less successful ones, which I think might be a credit to him).
I should have listened to my better angel - I tasted the water and it was deliciously pure and sweet. Reading you let it ride out, I feel badly I tossed the stuff today. After all, it was doing no harm!
I'll try it again next, and this time see what obtains. Thanks again.
Yeah, trying again until you succeed, that's the right attitude! Good for you, Paul! : )))
Too bad there are no indicators of when it is done, except temperature, time, and obligatory white mold. No mold? Not ready. Unless there is 'sweet and tangy aroma and the juice is bubbly'.
My second time, I sort of forgot it in the cupboard using 'set it and forget it' method and checked it out ten days later. So, I have no idea if it was ready sooner than that or needed more time. Who knows. It worked perfectly well but there was no signs beside the fact that the raisins were sitting like stones at one point and then floated in the bottom half of the jar. I never tested its pH or taste or aroma. It was not colored, looked like clear water with raisins and a patch or mold on top. Ah, the mold was not white either. It was green. White mold would be baker's yeast I think.
But the bread exploded with flavors right away, and more so after baking. The strain of yeasts and lactic acid bacteria were clearly there and tons of them. It probably wasn't as described in the recipe: yeasts at their peak and lactic acid bacteria at their low point. My bread dough was clearly smelling like yogurt, but there was no acidity to taste. It was like normal yeasted dough and yeasted bread in terms of acidity, only more fragrant.
I guess in a way it is similar to any other starter initiated with fruit, white or light flour and water, there are many recipes like that, except this one is flourless. Maybe the way to test its doneness is to take a small sample and mix it with a spoon of flour on days 5, 6, 7....and see if it rises as in the recipe provided by Hamelman ("well risen in 6-8 hours at 20-22C"), or judge it from experience.
Should you try it again, make sure your raisins are not covered with oil, Paul. They must not be shiny. More like dry looking and covered with white dust. That means their surface microflora is intact.
Thanks for these tips, mariana, going right back i because this bread looks so delicious and like Hamelmsan says, another technique in the toolbox. Funny, when I watched the video of the yeast water being made, I noted the "tink, tink" of the raisins as they hit the glass, and thought "these seem drier/more obdurate" than the ones I use. So weird since the labelling merely says raisins and SO2 but indeed, confirmed, the TJ's raisins are lightly covered with oil. I don't understand why that isn't required to be listed as an ingredient.
At any rate, thanks again. I'll try again with truly dried, proper raisins.
By the by, love that gypsy swing. Reminds me very much of Lady Be Good. Not the same progression, but could be a key change, I think. The inimitable Django Reinhardt, Paris, 1934. Hot Club of France with swinging violin Stephane Grappeli.
And one of the wonderful modern masters, French-German Manouche Dorado Schmitt and his son Samson at the Django Reinhardt, Live at Birdland few years back.
Vintner dropped off a 2 ltr bottle of "Sturm" or fizzy young wine, a tiny bit cloudy from yeast and a delicate light pink in colour. This is worth clapping hands like a Spanish castanet dancer jumping up and down with glee. I bet you can guess what I did after drinking a cool refreshing delicious glass. First, I glowed like a cherub... and then... Yup, I mixed a little with flour and set it in a hard to find warm spot in the kitchen for the night. This morning it was doubled, bubbly, colapsing and smelling wonderfully yeasty. Added more AP wheat flour this morning to thicken it up. No, not measuring, but about two heaping tablespoons to make a soft dough. Now to watch and get my loaf ingredients ready. :)
Mini
And I brought some uninvited guests, too.
I recently started baking again after taking some months off. I've been looking for a way to produce naturally leavened breads with mild to no sourness because my husband doesn't care for the taste of sourdough. I decided to try Hamelman's Swiss Farmhouse bread because his write-up noted the absence of acidity from the flavor profile. I used 79g of supposedly organic raisins with no additives or coatings and 179g of water from a brand new gallon of distilled water. These were placed in a sanitized Weck jar that ended up being about 75% full. Finally, the whole works was placed in the Brod & Taylor and set it at 80°F (26.6°C). Initially, I just set the glass lid atop the Weck jar, but the next morning I added the rubber gasket and clips to better seal it.
At the 24 and 48 hour marks, everything was pretty much the same except the raisins were swollen with water. I opened the lid at 48 hours and it smelled raisiny. I did not sir or shake the contents. By the next morning (60 hours), pretty much all the raisins were floating but it wasn't very bubbly or fizzy. Unfortunately, by the 72-hour mark last night (Thursday), there were 2 mold patches on top of the water. It smelled musty.
Hamelman indicated that white mold is an indication of readiness, but these mold patches had dark gray centers that looked ominous. Of course, I came to TFL for guidance and found that you guys did a CB for this formula. Of course you did! 😃
Based on what I read, I'm pretty sure I will end up tossing it out because I didn't like the look of the mold. Barring advice to the contrary, my plan is to start over with fresh ingredients, this time adding a pinch of Ascorbic acid which I ordered from Amazon along with a pH meter. (Those items should be delivered tomorrow (Saturday). I also plan to lower the temp on the proofer to 78°F (25.5°C).
I haven't pitched the first batch of raisin water yet. Instead, I removed the mold patches and added about 0.5g citric acid from an old bottle I found in the cabinet. That was last night (Thursday). Tonight (Friday), the mold has not returned and the musty smell is gone, but the raisins have sunk and there are no bubbles at all.
I'm wondering if it would be safe to add a teaspoonful of this water to the new batch in the hope of expediting the process. Or should I not risk that given the scary-looking mold that was present? I'd value your thoughts.
Thanks!
24 Hours:
48 Hours:
72 Hours - Moldy and Musty-Smelling:
Glad to see you giving YW a whirl. The raisins not floating is more of an issue than the mold that you can just spoon out and keep going. It does well at warmer temps 85F worked for me. The fizz looks promising but the raisins need more room in a taller jar. Just my suggestions I am no expert. HTH
Don
edit to add that distilled water is too clean so try some spring water with minerals.
Thanks, Don. I'll pick up some spring water and start a fresh batch tomorrow. Maybe I'll make two – one completely from scratch and one spiked with a little YW from the initial batch. If the one turns out to be more tainted than spiked, at least a "clean" specimen will already be underway.
–AG
I’m far from an expert on yeast water, but I had similar mold on my initial batch of raisin yeast water. I shifted from raisins and purchased organic grapes which I halved and placed in new filtered water. I removed the mold from the initial batch and transferred a spoonful of the water to the new grape water and that seemed to do the trick. The second batch got super bubbly and didn’t have the mold problem. I’d use a spoonful of the water, after removing the mold completely and start a new yeast water with some organic fruit of some kind. I just seems to me unless you get organic raisins and ones that don’t have any kind of preservative or oil coating, it increases the chances that the yeast water won’t work.
Benny
Thinking on the same lines - and apple yeast water works very well, doesn't even have to be organic apples. Recommended to peel the apples (in case of any residual fungicides on the skins if not organic) and apparently green apples work best. A pic of what it looks like at the top of this post. You can start the apple yeast water from the existing culture too.
Another thing is that I keep my yeast waters always in the fridge. They propagate fine in the fridge once it's been started. It may help with preventing unwanted fungi.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
-JonJ
These are great tips and give me more confidence about transferring some of the existing YW to the new sample. I'll also plan to transfer the YW to the fridge once the yeasts seem to have gained a foothold. Fingers crossed! I'll keep you posted.
–AG
I have the same proofer and I have noticed it was lagging about 5-6-degree F to incubate a mixture. In another word, the mixture would be about 5-6-degree cooler than the controller so if I want the temp of my mixture to be around 82-degree F then I would have to set the controller to be around 88-degree F. I also found that this lag temp is not linear as it works opposite at a higher temp over 100-degree F. This is for my B&T proofer, yours might be different. I believe YW likes to incubate at a warmer temp so 80-degree F might not be high enough to kick if off. Your room temp might have some influence so I would monitor the mixture temp instead regardless. Good luck!
Thank you for that observation. My proofer has been set to 80°F and a thermometer placed inside the box has had readings all over the place. Even during the day when the temp is a pretty steady 70°F, I was seeings reading anywhere from 80°F to 83.5°F. If I reduced the proofer temp just one degree to 79°F, I'd see the thermometer readings drop as low as 77°F. Based on your comment, I took the temperature of the water itself and it was 85.6°F. At the time, the proofer was set to 80°F and the thermometer inside the box read 83.3°F. The YW had been in the box for 3hrs 45min. Some of this can be chalked up to different thermometers, but that seems like a wide variance regardless. This is all anecdotal, of course; I've not made a study of it. Also, my proofer is pretty old.
Last weekend I started Raisin Water 2 – also a failure – and an Apple Water that took off within 2½ days. It was allowed to incubate for 5 days for flavor development, but the timing didn’t work out for a bake so it is now cooling its jets in the fridge. I used AW1 to innoculate a backup just in case anything goes awry. AW2 was bubbling merrily away in about a day, maybe a little more.
AW1 went into the fridge Friday night and the fruit was replaced this afternoon (Saturday). I expect to do the first build Monday evening. The fruit will only have been in the jar for a couple days by then, so I assume it’s okay to use the YW straight from the fridge without any refreshment – after it comes to room temp on the counter, of course.
I can’t wait to start the bread and hope I can get the bake in on Tuesday or else it will have to wait till next weekend. This has been a fun learning experience and will be even more so if the bread turns out.
Thanks to all of you for your kind help!
That’s exciting AG, I’m glad it is working and fermenting. I remember the frustration I had with raisins too and wouldn’t bother using them in the future for yeast water.
Benny
I find raisins to be very easy. While I often use any organic fruit, fresh or dried, I do like raisins because they don't break up in the water. Fresh fruit can disintegrate and make the YW very murky. One of the easiest YW i've made was with dried mulberries. Very quick to make and produces a strong ferment. Apricots are also good! I'm wondering if the ones you used had some sort of preservative even If it didn't say so on the packet and while no preservative was added to the raisins themselves the grapes weren't organic. Every time i've used organic raisins they always turned into a yeast water.
I had a failure using Macro "organic:" raisins I bought from our local Woolworths supermarket. I discovered that they were coated with canola oil! I then purchased proper organic raisins on-line from a credited supplier and had success.
Image
Organic always works best. I once tried non organic dried apricots and they did absolutely nothing even after waiting a week. Then bought some organic dried apricots and it was a fully fledged YW within 2-3 days.
What is it they say....? If food can't rot it's not healthy for you? Well, if it can't rot it's not good for YW either!
Kneading a YW whole spelt dough as i'm typing this.
Are always treated with sulphur dioxide to preserve their color and softness. Only organic which are dark and obviously not as pretty would be able to start a YW.
Oil doesn’t preclude a YW starting as I have had lovely fizzing from my oiled raisins from Nuts.com. And they float very well and as I noted I am on two weeks now with no refresh and all fruit still floating.
hope this helps
But yes, only the organic non treated dark apricots work. It was interesting to see how how effective the preservatives are and to compare the organic apricots which worked so quickly.
While I do prefer to try and get raisins without oil it's becoming more difficult to find. And if they don't have oil they're much more expensive. Less ingredients = more expensive. Go figure! However the oil does not prevent the yeast water from working.
I just made a spelt bread from a yeast water refreshed more than 3 weeks ago and straight from the fridge.
I love “ less is more”! I take a very laid back approach to it all. The challah turned out exceptionally well! Huge loaves extremely soft feathery crumb and love fresh flavor. A soft crust this time as I brushed it with 1/2 and 1/2. Will definitely do that again. Much better taste than the egg wash for me.
of this durum bread I did. One of the tastiest durum breads i've ever done. Yeast water preserves the natural flavour from the grain itself and compliments it. The long and generous ferment really made a very tasty loaf with a wonderful texture. It was so nice I tried it with wholegrain spelt (but this time I didn't have any kefir so just used oil and honey) the results are very impressive.
Your challah's are really lovely and can imagine YW brings out the best in this sweet enriched bread too.
I love durum breads. I always get my grains from Breadtopia and try to keep a supply of Durum. I add it to all things and in fact grind it very fine and my husband uses 1/2 and 1/2 my ground durum and the T65 for his pasta dough. It is wonderful !!
I will definitely make your bread that you linked when I get back home. You almost made the " holy trinity" addition if only you had added some honey :) I don't ever have kefir so use yogurt or buttermilk . I have also used ricotta if I have some left over. I love all the ideas I get here !!! c
This was an off the cuff recipe and it turned out so well it's given me a new appreciation for durum. Always have liked durum but it's never turned out as good as this. Next time i'll start the night before and allow it to ferment through the night. Used olive oil and kefir because that's what I had in stock but i'll make sure to complete that holy trinity next time. For the spelt I didn't have any kefir left but had bought some honey so still only two out of the three but it turned out really lovely. This theme of 50g YW to 500g flour and adding in yoghurt/kefir, olive oil and honey is my new YW style bread. Nice long ferment and can be used straight from the fridge. With minimum fuss along with the combo of ingredients is now my new go to approach for YW. Thank you for the thumbs up and your input Caroline.
I will definitely be making it. I saw Bob's Red Mill Semolina on the flour shelf at Publix yesterday. They have a bigger selection of food items than many stores but they are pricey !! Will wait till I get home and can use my own supplies. I put everything in the fridge before we left. We don't usually have any pests but 2 yrs ago we had a teeny tiny mouse that wrecked havoc in my basement cupboards !! He loved rice flour and tracked it everywhere !! Also he ate into paper packages of cocoa mix. Quite the mess. Not taking chances with the grains. c
Hope you are 'visitor' free this time. Seem to remember reading something about mice preferring chocolate to cheese. I like to keep open packets of flour inside plastic ziplock bags. You could leave an open jar of marmite out. That'd be enough to scare any living thing away ;)
never tasted the stuff...marmite that is. A plastic bag is nothing to a mouse....he chewed right threw it to get to the rice flour. I usually have nice plastic heavy duty buckets but didn't get my stuff off loaded into them so just stuck the bags in the freezer. c
You love it or you hate it! I suppose you should try some sometime. Apparently those who like it enjoy it spread very thinly on toast with some butter. And others will run a mile.
I'm more scared of weavels as we've never had any mice issue but wary of opening a bag of flour to be met with insects. Try to make the bags as airtight as possible too and wholegrain always gets stored in the fridge.
Sounds like the little mouse had a great time while you were away. Sounds like you've got everything covered.
Thinly spread like "Patum Peperium" on hot buttered toast? Delicious, I'd say ;-) !
One can't spread it thinly enough ;)
What a wonderful bread. Adding this to my list of future bakes for sure, didn't know about this as it was on breadtopia.
Incredible crumb, can't believe that is durum.
My recent kefir bread has made me appreciate the texture that kefir brings.
A recipe I threw together on the spur of the moment hence the unrefreshed YW. Really tasty results and I too was surprised at how the crumb turned out. Works very well with spelt too.
With durum one gets a better result when more generous with the bulk ferment. We often see wheat sourdough recipes asking for a more modest bulk ferment rise, as in tartine, but durum works better when left to double before going onto the shaping and final proof.
Abe, having reread the recipe, could you tell me what durum flour you used? Your comment "I’ve got a good supply of semola rimacinata but never used wholegrain durum flour before. Would like to one day but need to source some" has left me wondering!
I'm a little confused, and still mostly think only in terms of coarse and fine semolina (with rimocinata being the latter). I've probably misunderstood something, is rimocinata not wholegrain then?
-Jon
Hi Jon, I used Semola Rimcinata which is re-milled semolina. Semolina is the grits milled from durum and it is the "white" (or yellow) part of the grain. There are different grades from coarse to fine semolina. Semola Rimacinata is re-milled even finer into flour. It's also called Durum Flour. If one can't get hold of re-milled semolina then one can substitute it with fine semolina. Expect slightly different results though. Rimacinata is not wholegrain.
This is the brand I used.
That is a beauty, Abe. Looks so soft and creamy. You sneaked this one in under the radar. Glad JonJ pointed it out.
–AG
I didn't do a post on TFL for this bake. I'm on both forums and while I occasionally used to post bakes on both recently i've been doing one or the other. If I think someone can benefit from it i'll post a link. This was the softest creamiest durum bread i've ever done. I was surprised myself and didn't think durum flour was capable of producing such a crumb. Dare I say this off the cuff yeast water bake turned out far better then all my previous carefully planned sourdough durum breads. It was however the first time I combined both yoghurt and olive oil so that would have helped a lot!
Great stuff and keep us posted. At least until you have confidence in the yeast water, I'd also recommend sticking to the double preferment system like the community bake uses (rather than just one).
I brought my dependable YW starter aka YW with unbleached flour leftovers stored and use to create a levain as well as my YW with apples and raisins. So I started the water and some flour a few hours ago and it is full of bubbles. I just got out my stater and took a scoop...I don't have a scale here and mixed it with. more YW and more flour. So I will have two levains of YW but starting from different points /age. I may add a few grams of ADY depending on what I see by morning in my containers. Stay tuned.
I carried my Apple/Raisin YW to Florida with me. It was in a cooler with some ice for 2 days. It's still looking wonderful and everything is still floating. I used to put slices of orange peel in my YW to keep it " fresh " longer. I don't know why I stopped. Several folks on TFL took my advice and also started to do it and they too found their YW stayed floating and fizzy a lot longer. I put 2 large pieces of fresh peel in before I left home and I can say that it smells great is fizzy and all fruit is STILL floating . I am going to make a levain tonight with some of it in order to bake a batch of Challah in the next day or two.
I also wanted to follow up on the comments about oiled raisins. I never thought about it but happened to look at the package that my Giant Flame Raisins came in from Nuts.com. It says they have safflower oil on them. I haven't seen any problem with keeping my YW going using them. I did start with apple, switch to just raisin and then started combining the two fruits a month ago and now have also started back adding the orange peel.
I will follow up after I start my levain tonight. I also have never had mold on any starter YW or SD. I don't think it is the raisins causing it. Unless they were not kept refrigerated after opening. All dried fruit must be kept in the fridge if is isn't treated with sulphur dioxide which I assume they weren't.
Just my thoughts. c
I discarded mine when I moved about 2.5 years ago. This is such a great bread andI have missed it. My YW was made with home grown raspberries and was very active. sometimes during the winter months I added raisins to keep it going. I do have some raspberries so maybe I will try again or maybe with raisins….
good luck with the bake - its one of my favourite recipes
Leslie
Build 1 was mixed last night around 8:30 p.m. Noticing that many of the community bakers reported very long fermentation times for their first builds, I wanted to overnight it in the proofer where temps would probably be in the upper 70's°F. When I checked it nine hours later, at 5:30 a.m., it had tripled. Gotta admit, I'm pretty stoked by that :-) When complete, I'll probably record the bake in my blog.
For now, I have some questions about how to refresh YW specifically for a bake. Do you just take a couple teaspoons of YW and add it to a jar of fresh water and fruit – so it's pretty much the same as making a new YW except for the addition of a couple spoonsful of the old YW? Should you add Ascorbic Acid to the water again? (I assume not.) Once refreshed, how long should you wait before you use it? Is it still 5-6 days to allow the flavors to mature, or can you use it as soon as it gets a good "pffft" sound when you open the jar? I know these questions have already been answered on this forum, but a lot of the threads I've read seem discontiguous (if that makes sense) so I just want to make sure I'm pulling all the disparate bits of information together correctly. Thanks!
–AG
Hi AG,
We all have different approaches to it, I think. Some do do it like you describe above.
After using some YW I simply top it up with water and replace all the fruit with fresh fruit. I'm very casual about it - I do it by eye. If the YW isn't used for 2 weeks then it will need to be fed, so what I simply do is strain out old fruit and replace the fruit. Mine stay in the fridge all the time. I don't mind the sediment at the bottom accumulating, but other bakers do.
-Jon
Ah! So using it straight from the fridge after three days of storage was fine. Thank you, Jon!!! It seems to have worked a treat, so I'm psyched.
Unfortunately, the dough's timelines haven't been terribly predictable and my schedule is also now taking unexpected turns, so this bake might not end up working out. But who knows? This project has been one surprise after another and so much fun that I won't mind doing it all again when I have the luxury of time.
–AG
YW preferments last a long time in the fridge, even when somewhat developed. I'm just starting to realize the potential of it, but I've made bread with a week old preferment a few times now and it mostly works out well. So, unlike a sourdough levain there is reduced gluten breakdown as it doesn't become as acidic.
This could maybe help with the scheduling. And as others have said YW preferments stay at peak for a long time so there is also less time pressure there.
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I’ve had the same YW for years. I do as Jon and top it off with water and remove old fruit and add new at that time. My different actions are that as long as fruit is floating I do not remove it. I have again started adding fresh orange peel which preserves the freshness of the YW a very long time. I usually take out the sludge from the bottom when I refresh but as noted in my pictures I get fantastic growth without refreshing and by using some of the sludge as well. You should never tighten the lid , you should always aerate the mixture . You want an aerobic product not anaerobic! No alcohol formation. Fizzing does not denote yeast formation.
my YW had fantastic growth yesterday there is no fizz at all and hasn’t been refreshed in about two weeks? Would have to look back.
hope this helps
Hi, Trailrunner. I've definitely been laboring under a few misapprehensions regarding yeast water. I thought fizzing and floating fruit were pretty much required. Also, I stirred the refrigerated YW before using it in Build 1, but then remembered reading that the sludge contains many dead yeast cells. I was afraid I compromised the dough and was prepared to wake up to an unrisen Build 1 this morning. I was happy to find it had risen quite well. I'll grab a couple oranges when I replenish my apple supply. Adding citrus peel makes total sense and feels so much better than adding Ascorbic acid to the water.
I've seen many of your lovely bakes over the years and am thrilled to have the benefit of your advice. Many thanks for sharing!
–AG
but I labored under the " dead yeast" sludge misinformation for a LONG time !!! It wasn't until the proof was shown here that it actually has potential for growth and isn't dead at all that I started building a levain from it.I only do one feeding as I haven't found it needs more. . I am amazed at how my levains have been acting. I went ahead and fed my poor underused SD levain before I left last week on vacation. :) It's been my buddy for years and I don't want to lose it.
I have often put both a SD levain and a YW levain in my breads as we don't like sour. It works great. I also sometimes just put the YW in and don't make a levain out of it. That also works. I sometimes make a YW levain and then add in YW as part of the water component in my breads. It all produces wonderful bread and it has one thing in common...it all tastes great!!
There is/was a YW forum that I joined years ago and had to stop posting and reading as there was so much misinformation on there. The biggest kick they all got was to tightly seal it up and then let it explode out all over everywhere to prove how potent it was. Sigh...they were making alcohol . As we all know when our SD levain makes " hooch" and smells like alcohol it is hungry. A fresh smelling YW is a healthy YW.
Looking forward to your bakes !!! c
My over 1.5 year old unfed (unloved) grape yeast water is coming to life. I decided I’d see how quickly it can be revived so poured off the supernatent and discarded the 1.5 year old grapes and sludge at the bottom of the jar. I sliced not organic grapes in half and placed them in a jar with the supernatent from the original yeast water and then topped it off with filtered water. 36 hours later most of the fruit is floating and we have a decent amount of bubbles. I expect by 48 hours it will be quite fizzy. Oh I forgot that I added a tsp of sugar for extra fuel for the yeast because I think I should have had more grapes than I had on hand.
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I’m not sure what I’m going to do with the yeast water yet. It seems that you need to do two levain builds to use it, but I can achieve a non sour dough with a single build if I do a stiff sweet levain so that is actually easier. However, I might get more grapes if this chugs along well and allow it to fully ferment and eventually get it to become grape vinegar. Just a thought I had but I haven’t decided for sure yet.