South African Sourdough Starter - Day 1

TorontoFlour,

I'm sorry I didn't ask the right question. I know you followed the instructions. You had already stated that. When I asked about what you are doing, I really mean that I need to know what you're doing. I don't know what his instructions are, so "following his instructions" doesn't help me to help you. From what I gather, the instructions said to proof at 90F for 24 hours. That already sounds insane, whatever the rest of it is. If his culture is good, you should be able to mix a little with some warm water and flour and see activity in a few hours at the most. It also seems that you're putting too much water in it. I really think his instructions may be leading you astray. The liquid you see on the bottom is not hooch. It's probably water. Separation happens sometimes when the starter is too wet. If you will list the procedure you followed, someone could probably tell right away what the problem is, because the procedure is probably the problem.

If this is made with whole wheat flour, then the larger particles tend to separate and you get the layered effect. It should smell beer-y or yeast-y. If it was contaminated with undesirable bacteria, it starts to smell like old rancid cheese, toe-jam or sweaty athletic socks. I used a variety of descriptions but I think you get the idea. Overall-yuck.

I confess I just scanned the prior thread. I remember when I started with sourdough how confused and intimidated I was because I didn't understand what was happening.

First of all-relax. I t sounds like you have a good start. There have been yeasts that have been recovered from Egyptian tombs that have been used to brew beer today. It sounds like your yeasts are waking up. Yeasts are amazing creatures and you will get to experience them in your bread!

The easiest way to get a culture going is-flour, water, time. The yeasts you want to make bread are already on the grain/flour (if it is Unbleached and not heated). Nature provides. Everything on this planet is covered microscopically with what can digest it for food (including us!). The by-product of their digestion of the carbs and sugars is carbon dioxide (bread traps as bubbles) and alcohols (which give all fermented products their characteristic flavor). 

By using a dried culture, you can jump start the process a little but you still have to allow the culture to come into balance. A sourdough culture consists of the lactobacillus (which make a favorable, acidic environment) and the yeasts (the workhorses for our breadmaking purpose). When you wet the dried culture, the yeast "wakes up" and immediately needs food and reasonable warmth. Actually, its warmth requirements are the same as a humans but with a narrower "favorite" range of about 80-92F. Lactos like it a little cooler, I believe. So when you revive the culture, some lactos are present,some yeast are present and at first the lactos growth will quickly surpass the yeast.Lactos can raise the level and produce gas but generally it is too weak to completely raise bread-esp with multiple risings.  As you feed and maintain the culture, the yeasts (esp if you keep it in their favorite temp range) will gradually dominate. Eventually, they will come to a balance and survive.

Generally, the more liquidy the culture is kept at, the faster it needs to be fed-esp if it is warm. If it is kept cooler, the yeasts and lactos generally get sleepy and don't eat as much. It will be very noticeable if you have seasonable temp changes in the kitchen. I like to keep my culture like a thick pancake batter consistency when I start it-it is just easier to stir and see the rise.I think it is easier for a beginner to see what is happening when it is a little thicker and the level actually rises in the jar rather than the bubbles just escaping from the surface.. If it is too liquid, the bubbles rise and break the surface so its hard to judge if it actually rises.  Others swear by a putty like consistency. You will get all kinds of advice to do all different things. Try one thing consistently for a while and make note of successes and failures. Repeat or not on subsequent attempts.

So stop following directions to a T and look at your culture. Figure out what is happening in their world. It is like having a microscopic pet-does it need to eat? Have the cage cleaned? Is it sleepy? Does it need warmth? Later, you will also benefit from looking at your dough/bread and not looking at a clock. It will be ready when its ready-it doesn't matter if the timer has dinged.

Have fun! Start by making pancakes and enjoying the deliciousness. No special recipe-Starter,flour,milk,egg,baking soda,salt, sugar-mix and griddle-enjoy!

that it is actively fermenting.  It starts out mild but increases (as it should) with time. When this beery starter is first fed 1 to 2 (starter weight to flour weight, plus water) the smell is of wet flour.  As soon as the population of yeast increase enough to give off gas, it will start to smell like beer again. The more the flour and water mixture ferment and thus breaks down and no longer contains the gas, the smell of beer gets stronger.  Strong smells come off mature sourdoughs.  Judging the smell of a starter requires experience and a good sense of smell.  I have a neighbour who has lost her sense of smell.  Very interesting,  another day.

When I first sense the beer smell in a new starter, I leave it alone (no food) to mature another day before removing a portion to feed.  I tend to mix up my starters in a clean bowl (like the asian rise bowl shape) and then put them into a jar or container to ferment.  I don't like the fermented  edges of the older container interfering with my nose and combining with the aromas coming off the newly fed starter.  The "cage" is kept clean to observe the starter dropped cleanly into the middle.  Wet fingers level the surface if firm.

I'm guessing here but if you had mentioned the beer smell to Paul Wood.  This would explain his lack of interest, help is no longer needed.  The starter is active.

When the culture is active and established, separation is rare.  The active mixture tends to stir itself if thin and a thick one doesn't separate except if it gets really really over-ripe, then it oozes.  

Good morning, MiniOven

Finding this fascinating!

 

and I too have dried starters and have played around with restarting them.  

Dried starters are different from dry microbial cultures. Dried starters are usually restored in 24 hrs. Cultures, they usually take longer (to develop a sourdough starter based on that culture), minimum 2 days, normally 3 or even 5 if you don't track acidity and pH. Dr. Wood sells cultures for starters (microbes mixed with flour). They are not dried and pulverized starters per se. 

The difference would be the same if you sold someone  dried yeasted bread dough, in order for them to restore it into a fresh and bubbly yeasted dough and propagate it as a source of yeast for baking... Or if you'd sell dry yeast (pure yeast) mixed with a little flour in a packet : ) 

Is the starter then lowered to a maintenance temperature?  

South African culture doesn't have 'maintenance temperature' per se, because the culture, once activated, is stored (preserved, conserved) refrigerated and small portions of it are used to inoculate sponge (leaven, levain), which , in turn, will inoculate bread dough.

Does the warming of the starter need to be repeated with future starter feeds? 

Yes, but not to as high T, as when you activate dry culture. I.e. when one activates dry culture, one goes through

(1) high T stage of 32C

(2) cold stage of 21C (or even as low as 18C)

(3) normal warm stage of 29C

So when one takes a portion of a culture from refrigerator, one brings it first to 29C (warming up the culture). Next, blend about 400g of this sourdough with 600g of warm water (lower its acidity) and take 250 g of that, add 90g flour and enough water to obtain thick batter consistency. Thoroughly aerate the mix (whip it). 

Then it is left for 2-4 hrs @ room temperature (21-24C) and if it rises 2-3 inches in that time, it is considered activated (from the lethargic cold and over-acidified state). Next, it can be used to inoculate sponge (leaven, levain) for the future bread dough. 

Temperature at which the sourdough sponge and dough are fermented strictly depend on the recipe for a specific kind of bread, I guess. In Dr. Wood's book, he states his personal preference for the 2 stage sponge fermentation

(1) per 1 cup of active culture (200g of chef, starter) add  90g flour + 120g warm water. 

3hrs @18-21C, then 6-10 hrs @ 26-29C. 

(2) alternatively, one can do one stage sponge "hot" fermentation: 6-8 hrs @ 29-32C. 

From this sponge a portion is taken, fed, proofed for 1 hr,  and kept refrigerated as a stock culture for future baking. The remainder is used to inoculate bread dough which again ferments for 8-12 hrs @21-24C. 

Can I apply this technique to an existing random sourdough starter?

I don't know which technique you refer to, but each kind of starter requires its own process, in order to preserve its microbial association and character (its flavour, essense). I guess as an experiment, one can give it a try with an existing random starter : ) I don't know.

Dr.Wood's process is more typical of treatment of san-francisco type starter that has Lb.san-francisco in association with C. miller in it. Other starters have different yeasts and different LAB, they are treated differently, have their own protocols.  

best wishes, 

mariana

Hi TFlour,

How are your starters doing today?

Here are the links that I promised:

RedFife wheat (Halychanka) story – origin, qualities, its past and its future. Book by Stephan Symko, chief agricultural scientist of the province of Galicia and researcher at the center of cereal breeding in Ottawa   

http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/science-and-innovation/science-publications-and-resources/resources/from-a-single-seed-tracing-the-marquis-wheat-success-story-in-canada-to-its-roots-in-the-ukraine-1of11/?id=1181224838769

Swiss bakery school in Lucerne, publications by Richemont.

Titles in English 

http://www.richemont.cc/en/215/Richemont-Books.htm

in all languages available

http://richemont.zynex.ch/en/02_medien/01_buecher.htm

Courses available,

http://richemont.zynex.ch/en/01_bildung/01_kurse/01_produktion.htm?RQT=KURS_SUCHE&IGID=2

such as courses dedicated to

 Rye Breads (roggenbrot) 

http://richemont.zynex.ch/en/01_bildung/01_kurse/01_produktion.htm?RQT=KURS_DETAIL&VerDef_ID=3479&BACK=%2fen%2f01_bildung%2f01_kurse%2f01_produktion.htm%3fRQT%3dKURS_SUCHE%26IGID%3d2

 Sourdough Wheat Bread techniques

http://richemont.zynex.ch/en/01_bildung/01_kurse/01_produktion.htm?RQT=KURS_DETAIL&VerDef_ID=3571&BACK=%2fen%2f01_bildung%2f01_kurse%2f01_produktion.htm%3fRQT%3dKURS_SUCHE%26IGID%3d2

 Advanced Bakery 

http://richemont.zynex.ch/en/01_bildung/01_kurse/01_produktion.htm?RQT=KURS_DETAIL&VerDef_ID=3612&BACK=%2fen%2f01_bildung%2f01_kurse%2f01_produktion.htm%3fRQT%3dKURS_SUCHE%26IGID%3d2

What a beatiful picture , T.Flour : ) Gorgeous starters indeed !!!

Congratulations, I am so so so so sooooo happy for you. And for your well fed and well cared for starters : ) 

to recap a few procedures from yesterday

1) to fortify any flour that is not standard quality: those that are sold as organic, pure, 100% flour nothing added, hard wheat, etc. 

1/8 tsp Ca-Mg-VitC supplement per 250 g flour

1/2 tsp diastatic malt  per 250 g flour

2) best water is Canadian Spring for dough, Distilled water for tests

3) strongest flour for starters is RobinHood, either Best For Bread or All Purpose, both unbleached and whole wheat. 

add 2-3% wheat germ from freezer to whole wheat flour  (but not to whole grain wheat flour)

4) Flours of specific brand and specific designation, i.e. No-Name all-purpose, or Five Roses unbleached all purpose, or RobinHood Best for Bread...etc. will be very stable in quality from bag to bag, year to year. So it is enough to determine their water absorption capacity and gluten content only once.

All other flours have to be tested for each bag, each purchase, they will vary wildly in their quality depending on the quality of wheat milled and left unadjusted. 

5) Water absorption capacity test. Take 25g of medium hard water and add enough flour to obtain medium soft dough. Determine how many grams of flour it took and calculate water absorption for 100g of flour

Arva unbleached flour has water absorption capacity about 60%

RobinHood best for bread flour (white) has water absorption capacity about 72%

6) Gluten content test

50 g flour + 30g water (not distilled, medium hard) + small pinch of salt, mix, divide into 2 equal parts.

let one ball rest for 20 min and another - 60 min. Wash out gluten and weigh it. Multiply x4 to get gluten content of 100g of flour with 20 min autolysis and with 60 min autolysis. 

Note the quality of gluten. How extensible it is, how elastic (tough to stretch), how sticky, etc. 

7) pH test

5 g substance (dough, bread crumbs,etc) + 45 g distilled water, blend well, dip pH paper into it and compare the color with the chart

pH of sourdough starters usually  stays in 4.0-4.5 range and depends on buffering capacity of flour. The more ash content (the more bran flour has) the higher is buffering capacity of flour. I.e. pH of the starter will reach certain level and stay there for a long time, even though the TTA will continue to rise. 

8) Acidity test (total titratable acidity)

5g of dough + 50g distilled water + 2-3 drops of indicator (phenolphthalein)

Blend well

add 1/2 N NaOH solution until liquid in the bowl turns pink and stays pink. 

See how many grams of NaOH it took to neutralize all acid in the bowl and multiply times 4. This is your TA (total acidity)

Proper TTA values for mature starters

stiff rye starter, whole grain 13-16

stiff rye starter, medium rye 12-14

liquid rye starter, whole grain 10-13

liquid rye starter, medium rye 9-12

stiff wheat starter, white flour 6-8

stiff wheat starter, whole grain flour (70% hydration) 11-12

liquid wheat starter, white flour 4.5-5.5

liquid wheat starter, medium ash content (50:50 white and whole grain mix) 6-7.5

liquid wheat starter, whole wheat > 7.0

9) feeding starter. Different starters are fed at different temperatures and in different proportions of flour:flour, different hydrations. The process of feeding a starter, however, is more or less the same and consists of tree steps:

- mix starter with water, 1min on high speed

- add flour, 1-3 min on low to medium speed or until fully homogeneous

- let rest for 10-20 min and mix, until well aerated shows signs of gluten development. 

best wishes, 

mariana