I made it to bake a long with my big sis in Dumont NJ. She failed. Still new. So is her sourdough culture. The bread is so soft, and delicious. I took the time to convert the recipe from volume to a mass weight formula. I also took into account the water in all the other liquid ingredients. She still went with the very inaccurate recipe.
Will, was there some keyholing? I ask because it's an occasional problem of mine and wondered what your thoughts were. Especially since you have 4 loaves to compare.
I did notice some collapsing. I attributed it to a mistake. The oven rack were not set up exactly right. During the first half of the bake the loves stated to hit the rack above. Lucky I noticed before they were to stuck. I did have to do some giggling to free them. As far as collapse they all had it to some degree. Still, a very soft enriched bread. I will try the formula out for burger rolls some time.
Keyholing occurs when the bread pulls in on the sides so it looks like an old-fashioned keyhole--narrow at the bottom and round at the top. There are different theories about what causes it.
Excessive expansion. I would also go out on a limb and say it is similar to a panettone collapsing. In hindsight, next time I would let them set in the pan for an hour before de- panning. Might highly enriched breads be more susceptible? These are interesting questions.
Hey Wil it looks like the heat is not getting to you in AZ. Keyoling Is caused by under baking. The gray dough on the edges are nearly raw. The sides cave in as it cools. I think in with this bake they needed to be on a lower rack with less crowding and not on a sheet pan. If the sides walls are not firm enough then they need more time or finished baking without the pans.
The woman who's recipe it was call for a 30 minute bake for the same four loaves. These took a full hour to reach this point. Additionally, I took an internal temperature of one. It was North of 205° F in the center. Funny the author called for 190°F. All that being said, you are correct the sides were weak. They almost felt hollow. I will definitely take your overcrowding suggestion into Strong consideration.
I bake maybe every 6 month a "no waste" recipe in a loaf pan. Hence my experience is very limited. I always de-pan my bread immediately and continue baking it for 3-5min. My no waste recipe is a lean dough, so not really comparable.
Would be interesting to know what causes the grey dough on the edges. The temperature in the middle of the loaf was high enough, the crumb looks ok, ... Maybe it's really only the spacing that prevent he walls of the loaf pan to get warm (fast enough).
Help me out by pointing out this Gray dough? I agree the sides are caving in and the finished product sided a a bit lighter. I don't see grey off color. Note the in the oven photo was The half way mark of the bake. Still rather raw all over. I think what we are seeing in that photo a shadow. Thanks.
BTW, "keyholing" wouldn't bother me much (up to some extent) if the crumb looks like yours. I don't think this is uncommon with enriched sandwich bread. At least I'm almost sure I've seen "keyholing" (to some extent) in sandwich loafs baked by professional bakeries.
As a matter of "pride" (not sure if that's the best word) I am going to try and remedy the malfunction.
The last two slices I just ate were gummy , slightly under cooked. Wet was a good description. So, the need to make improvements is no longer just cosmetic.
Very curious about phase two ;)
Check back now. Smile...
Foundation.
More information the formula is 100% AP flour.
I almost never make loaf pan breads.....I really need to do more. Yours looks great.
Best,
Ian
I made it to bake a long with my big sis in Dumont NJ. She failed. Still new. So is her sourdough culture. The bread is so soft, and delicious. I took the time to convert the recipe from volume to a mass weight formula. I also took into account the water in all the other liquid ingredients. She still went with the very inaccurate recipe.
Will, was there some keyholing? I ask because it's an occasional problem of mine and wondered what your thoughts were. Especially since you have 4 loaves to compare.
I did notice some collapsing. I attributed it to a mistake. The oven rack were not set up exactly right. During the first half of the bake the loves stated to hit the rack above. Lucky I noticed before they were to stuck. I did have to do some giggling to free them. As far as collapse they all had it to some degree. Still, a very soft enriched bread. I will try the formula out for burger rolls some time.
Keyholing occurs when the bread pulls in on the sides so it looks like an old-fashioned keyhole--narrow at the bottom and round at the top. There are different theories about what causes it.
Excessive expansion. I would also go out on a limb and say it is similar to a panettone collapsing. In hindsight, next time I would let them set in the pan for an hour before de- panning. Might highly enriched breads be more susceptible? These are interesting questions.
Drop your hydration a little and see if it goes away. Enjoy!
Hey Wil it looks like the heat is not getting to you in AZ. Keyoling Is caused by under baking. The gray dough on the edges are nearly raw. The sides cave in as it cools. I think in with this bake they needed to be on a lower rack with less crowding and not on a sheet pan. If the sides walls are not firm enough then they need more time or finished baking without the pans.
The woman who's recipe it was call for a 30 minute bake for the same four loaves. These took a full hour to reach this point. Additionally, I took an internal temperature of one. It was North of 205° F in the center. Funny the author called for 190°F. All that being said, you are correct the sides were weak. They almost felt hollow. I will definitely take your overcrowding suggestion into Strong consideration.
I would also say that the higher the hydration, the more prone the loaves will be to keyholing (new word for me!).
Therefore, a reduction in hydration of a few percent is likely to help.
Lance
Learned something (keyholing :D).
I like the crumb a lot.
I bake maybe every 6 month a "no waste" recipe in a loaf pan. Hence my experience is very limited. I always de-pan my bread immediately and continue baking it for 3-5min. My no waste recipe is a lean dough, so not really comparable.
Would be interesting to know what causes the grey dough on the edges. The temperature in the middle of the loaf was high enough, the crumb looks ok, ... Maybe it's really only the spacing that prevent he walls of the loaf pan to get warm (fast enough).
Help me out by pointing out this Gray dough? I agree the sides are caving in and the finished product sided a a bit lighter. I don't see grey off color. Note the in the oven photo was The half way mark of the bake. Still rather raw all over. I think what we are seeing in that photo a shadow. Thanks.
Will F.
"Grey" depends on monitor, light, etc. It's probably wrong. It's more like "wet". I hope the arrows help.
They did help.
BTW, "keyholing" wouldn't bother me much (up to some extent) if the crumb looks like yours. I don't think this is uncommon with enriched sandwich bread. At least I'm almost sure I've seen "keyholing" (to some extent) in sandwich loafs baked by professional bakeries.