A few incidences recently have caused me to rethink how I make my bread. One was an issue (appearance of some larger holes in an uneven crumb) and one was a surprising success. In all my rethinking, I think something has gone wrong, though.
I have made two loaves in the past two days. The first was 70:30 white bread flour:white spelt at around 67% hydration. The second was 70:30 white bread flour:wholemeal bread flour at 70% hydration. I am in the UK, by the way, so that may help get an idea of flour absorption. I use 10% starter inoculation.
Normally, I would ferment to 50% increase during bulk fermentation. This is where I got some of those large holes. So I went slightly higher, up to about 70% increase and the problem went away. A few recipe books I have always say "your dough will double, maybe even triple" so I thought I would push it up to double - 100% increase - which I did with a completely strong white bread flour loaf last week with 20% starter inoculation ~25C (perhaps even a touch warmer) and it was fantastic. It rose so well in the oven, even without a Dutch oven. The crumb was soft and even and the crust crisp.
With this new confidence in mind, I tried the same with those two flour blends mentioned above at my usual 10% inoculation. The first one (white spelt) reached about 70% increase in 12hrs and fell to pieces when I tried to get it out to shape it. The second one went for 10hrs and did the same.
Any ideas what is going on? Why are my breads suddenly over fermenting but not reaching anywhere near the "prescribed" height? I feel like I have suddenly lost my ability to bake and it's quite jarring! Many thanks in advance.
It's probably the spelt. Spelt and the other "ancient grains" have different variants of gluten from modern wheat and tend to be much more extensible and touchier about hydration levels. I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't hold up to long fermentation as well either.
Using a higher inoculation to get a shorter fermentation might help.
TomP
Alas, the second loaf was only wheat!
If nothing else changes - your starter has. What can be done now - use less starter - but - expect differences with amounts and times. I should not that this does not fix the problem - just the next bake. Enjoy!
You know what, I recently reduced the hydration of my starter from 100% to 70% because I saw a video about how lower starter hydration favours yeast. "Surely that will increase the leavening power a bit?" I thought. Perhaps I have undermined myself! I discovered Tom Cucuzza's bulk fermentation guide last night, so I am going back to lower fermentation temperatures (22C) today to see what happens. Good shout on the potential for starter changes.
Also, I swear spring and autumn sometimes cause my starter to behave strangely, even with no other changes. Has anyone else noticed that?
hi loafrabbit --
a rye tale, so not directly comparable, but I experienced a similar thing ... a year or so ago my 100% rye starter became inexplicably rapid, overfermenting every bread I made. Every dough I mixed suddenly seemed sticky and overhydrated -- even at a modest 60 or 70 percent hydration. Every bread I baked spread in the oven instead of rising. I tried stitching & took more time with shaping, which helped a little ... but not much.
The only change I noted that could have caused all this was that the rye flour I use had become much finer -- and when I queried the mill where I get my flour, they acknowledged that this could be true, as they had just brought a new stone into use.
Through trial and error, I discovered that I could recover some of the structure of my breads if I severely reined in my timings &, for certain loaves, spiked them with yeast.
A few weeks back, I read an online interview with a bakery owner who experienced a similar problem with her rye. Inspired by her report, I reined in my inoculation level. I used to use 10% inoculation in my preferments. Now I have started using 3%.
This has helped immensely -- and my last few loaves no longer seem overfermented and once again rise instead of spread.
I have no idea if this could help you, but I figured I would share my story as it might give another angle to try.
Rob
PS -- yes, my starter changes as the seasons change ... and even as the weather changes each day.
That's interesting! Certainly worth considering, but I think I'm feeding it with the same (bag of) whole wheat flour I used last week when I got an absolute perfect loaf.
I have since come up with another theory overnight. I have just started using a mixer for more consistent mixing. And I have a theory I am being too violent with it and it might actually be over-fermenting because I've wrecked the gluten structure and it cannot hold gas properly. I have started another loaf today where I didn't take it above setting 3 and even at 3 for not that long.
Re: A Rye Tale
I like this title. Maybe your follow up could be, An Overnight Tale? Additionally, a rye tale is a reminder for me that I need to restock on rye. At the present moment I only have enough to, convert Slo-Mo to a rye sourdough, or as a final dough add in. It seems, I am well overdue for a proper rye bake. A trip to WinCo is in order.
Kind regards
Will F
The Roman amongst Greeks
P.S. it comes to my attention that sometimes my substance less, word salad replies which add no value could be construed as "Bot like." Smile... No it's just me. I fancy myself to be quite witty. Maybe this is a bit egocentric, at best. Maybe a better description is that I have a distorted self-image? Whichever, it passes the time. Stay safe on the Mean Streets. Keep doing what you do in the kitchen. ( It's safe there)
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I was skirting dangerously close to titling it 'the miller's tale' -- quoting Chaucer. But then I'd have to make it a tale of sex & cheating & burnt buns, which seemed somehow unseemly, no matter how 'fresh' our loaves are on this site.
And, no worries, Will, you never sound bottish.
Keep on keeping on!
Rob
Chaucer, you say? I can make the connection to author. Beyond that, I think the last book I read was one in the Curious George series.
Curious George was a good one - for a 10yr old anyway. Enjoy!
I have some positive news! My theory was that I was actually massively over-kneading the dough in my mixer and that was the issue! So I took care, kneaded it gently and it seems to have worked. It's a bit flatter than I'd have liked, but that's probably due to hydration being too high for me (that's another story...)
But, for now, this might have resolved my issue.
fantastic!!! Congrats on figuring it out!!!