Starter still not mature (and smelling like alcohol)

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BreadAndFriendship on 10 Feb 2025 at 11:30

Hi y'all,

I'm still working on my first starter. It's been 15 days and, after some encouraging results, I am wondering why my starter is not yet mature.

The positive: My starter is consistently doubling in size after a feeding, and it has a lot of bubbles which seem to be a web-like structure.

The negative: However, my starter is consistently failing the float test, and it also smells like nail polish/alcohol (not slightly sweet yogurt).

Any advice? I have heard that the alcohol smell can be a sign of the starter not having enough food, so I am wondering if I should feed the starter more often. Perhaps I also need to remove more of the starter each time for the same reason. For now, I have been feeding it just daily. 

Thanks!

B&F

  • the first thing is: have you baked with it? You can't have any read on whether it's mature if you haven't tried baking with it.
  • the second thing is: you haven't told us what you are feeding it ... what type of flour in what ratios, etc.
  • the third thing is: 15 days and you want it to be mature. You're way ahead of me: it took me months to even think I was starting to understand my starter. I still don't understand it and I've been following this bread obsession for a couple of years now.
  • the fourth thing is: yes, the acetone smell usually means it is underfed. But that doesn't mean you need to feed it more often, which could reduce its potency. It may mean you could consider a different feeding ratio (for instance, if you are feeding it 1:1:1 -- equal parts starter:flour:water -- maybe try 1:2:2 or even more). These days I keep my whole rye starter in the fridge and once every couple of weeks I pull it out and give it several feeds averaging somewhere between 1:5:5 or 1:10:10. It seems happy with this.
  • The fifth thing is -- and this is purely my advice, others may differ [disclaimer: The information contained herein is for general information purposes only and while I endeavor to keep it up to date and correct, I make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is therefore strictly at your own risk.] you might want to forget the float test. I doubt my starter could ever pass the float test, but it makes some good bread, so it's happy and I'm happy and the float test is happy (I hope) because it doesn't have to work.

Rob

 

To answer the question - no - it's gone too far if you can smell alcohol. On another note - if you've followed most of the directions you'll find it's not for storage (that's a whole nother thing). For creating - it's as good as another - which really isn't saying much. Enjoy!

Haha, you guys can tell that this is my first real baking experience, I am sure! Thank you for your advice! 

I have been feeding it 1:1:1. I'm going to work based on the hypothesis that it is hungry and start feeding it 1:2:2. Maybe after a little while I will attempt my first sourdough!

One thing to realize is not that the starter is hungry with 1:1:1, but that it will get hungry sooner than when fed at a higher ratio. When you are starting out with a proto-starter, you want to encourage the LAB to grow and acidity acidify the culture. Feeding it in this stage dilutes the LAB concentration and raises the pH, so no or small feedings are the best plan (other bacteria can use up much of the available food so you may have to feed some during this time to make up for the loss).

Once the pH is low enough and yeast growth has kicked off, the game plan changes. Now you want to develop a good mix of acidity and yeast concentration at the time you will use the starter for making bread. You don't need to acidify the starter any more. You can use higher feeding ratios to make the development suit your schedule. There is nothing magic about any particular ratio.

Over time, the balance of lactic acid bacteria and yeast varieties will probably keep shifting slowly, so the starter's behavior may change too.

TomP

this is interesting, Tom. Thx. I assumed that if breadandfriendship is getting consistent acetone qualities, his concoction is acidic enough. But, for sure, maybe not. It's certainly true that I (unwittingly) put my starter through stinky hell before starting to feed it more.

Rob

It could be that the conditions favor the production of acetic over lactic acid.  I'm not sure when that happens. I've only gotten strong smells like that when I've left a starter in the fridge way too long (and I'm not sure that acetone is what I smell then, but it could be). By then, the starter is liquid and will probably be coated with a layer of dark liquid.

It's also conceivable that @breadandfriendship has achieved growing some kind of LAB that prefers to produce acetic acid.  I've read about that but again, I don't know what conditions favor getting that situation.

But mainly I would stop with the 1:1:1 feedings, which may never be getting the pH good for growing more yeast - I mean that maybe the pH is actually too low for good yeast growth -  and go to a higher, even much higher ratio (e.g., 1:5:5) and see how that develops. If the acetone smell goes away and the starter produces lots of gas bubbles that lift its top - after enough time to ferment - then the starter ought to be in good shape. If not, time for thinking of something else.