I originally started with a 100% hydration starter that I had created from scratch over a few weeks. I did not use any fancy extra ingredients, just a little whole wheat flour to give it a little nutrient boost, other than that its was just white organic bread flour and filtered water.
I wanted to make panettone, so I converted my original 100% hydration starter to 50% hydration in attempt to create something close to lievito madre. It was pretty active from the beginning and every 24 hours I would refresh it, and it would triple in size in the jar. I did that for about a week and then tried to use it in a panettone recipe.
It failed, the dough did not rise very much if at all. So I had to throw away the loaf.
I kept feeding the starter every 24 hours, a few times I went 48 hours by keeping it in the fridge.
Today I tried making a sourdough focaccia. I used 20% starter in the levain. I used the recipe from the Chain Baker - https://www.chainbaker.com/naturally-leavened-focaccia/
It bubbled, but didn't really rise after 12 hours (i left it out at room temp overnight), although it was kind of liquid so didn't have enough structure to rise anyway, I proceeded with the final dough.
Each time I let the dough rest after folding, it didn't rise much. I finally went ahead and put it in the oven, and it didn't even rise in the oven. It came out kind of flat. But it did taste sour, which actually I was not expecting because the 50% hydration is supposed to have less sour due to more yeast instead of bacteria.
So basically the starter I'm using is a failure.
I'm not sure what is wrong, because when I was doing the 100% hydration starter I was able to do bread and the same focaccia recipe I linked above without any issue. It just worked fine, and was really giving a nice rise.
Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong? I want to keep with the 50% hydration starter if possible. Do I just need more time to cultivate it?
Cariah Marey once were 50% hydration white starter. She went through several dietary changes to test different ideas
Nowadays she is taking form as 33% hydration bran starter. I feed her bran:sugar:water 8:1:3. She produces sweet tasting bread nowadays. But it took awhile.
Supplement your lean dough with instant yeast for awhile, gradually reduce it to zero. After your starter can handle lean dough, add sugar to your starter to make it more osmotolerant. Then move to milk loaves. Then move to cinnamon rolls (the sugar draws water from the dough). Then move to croissants and brioche. Always use unsalted butter.
Don't forget to employ fermentation techniques that increase yeast:LAB (3 stages levain, cool temperature, low hydration.)
Prolly different from starter to starter, my starter smells sweet and alcoholic when ripe. I never had that with liquid starter.
As a rule - when making a starter - it should return to almost water before the next feeding. It should thicken up to the original state when fed. If it doesn't thin out - wait till it does. Do that a few times and it's a starter. It is different when you make a bread. First - you make the starter. Then you make the bread. Enjoy!
I experience that when using 100% hydration starter. near the refreshment cycle, it would lose all gluten and be a little bit like pancake batter.
however from what I've seen of people refreshing 50% hydration starter like lievito madre on youtube, it never gets to that point, it is for the most part still doughy when doing the refreshments, definitely not stiff, but not watery or runny.
also when they store it for long term storage in the fridge, it's still stiff and they can break it apart with their hands.
I would try making a simple white loaf with your starter to check whether it is working properly.
ie something like 68% hydration, all white bread flour, 2% salt, 20% levain and see how that goes. No oils, fats, sugars.
Build your levain in 2 stages, eg 1:2 the afternoon of the day before and then an overnight build at, say 1:4 overnight for a morning mix.
Rise to 40% bulk and proceed with the bake. Try and do everything at 25C/77f or thereabouts. If that makes a nice loaf, your starter is probably good..
Lance
I keep my mother starter at 66% and most of my levains which are made from a piece of the mother starter are around 66%. I typically look for around a 100% rise. You may be letting it go too long and it’s using up all of its energy. Try letting it double and either use it right away or put it in the refrigerator for Ap to a day.
Since you mentioned lievito madre, I presume you used a 1:1 (starter:flour) ratio?
Feeding at this ratio every 24 hours at room temp is not ideal because you will generate lots of acidity and high acidity will slow everything down (Yeast, LAB and amylolytic activity). The exception being if you employ methods which control acidity development such as keeping the dough in water or binding.
This oft repeated mantra is misunderstood. Gram for gram, a mature starter containing more liquid will contain more yeast cells than a stiffer lower hydration starter.