The "Infinity Bread" Community Bake
**********************************************************************
For those who wish to limit or disengage from the flood of email notifications associated with long threads such as these CBs produce, Dan Ayo had written up how to do so
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/66354/tip-how-stop-email-notification-any-topic
**********************************************************************
Per Dan Ayo, the originator of Community Bakes: for those not familiar with our Community Bakes see THIS LINK. The idea of a Community Bake is for those interested learning and baking as a group. Be sure to post the results. This way we can all learn together. This is not a bread baking competition, everyone wins! All bakers with any skill level are welcomed to join the bake.
Although a long-time TFLer, this is my first foray into hosting a Community Bake. I'll do my best to keep things humming along. The "official" kick-off is this weekend to allow people to plan their bake but you can dive in now if you want.
I've had an idea percolating for a while for a bread that provides plenty of whole-grain goodness with lots of seeds and grains for extra texture and nutrition, while allowing for flexibility. In other words, a template for the basic structure with room for the baker's creativity and to adapt to the ingredients one has on hand. Since it can go in so many different directions, I'm calling it Infinity Bread. Admittedly, that's a bit grandiose but a lot more accurate than what we see in most advertising.
The other thing about this approach is that it is 2/3 wheat flour, so it will behave like a wheaten bread even though non-wheat flours are used for the final 1/3.
The basic outline looks like this:
34% bread or AP or plain flour
33% whole wheat flour
33% non-wheat flour(s) - baker's choice
10% seeds and/or cracked/chopped/flaked grains - baker's choice
1.5-2% salt
60-80% liquid (water/milk/beer/whatever) - baker's choice
Baker's yeast or levain for leavening - baker's choice
Sweetener (optional) - quantity and type are baker's choice
Fat (optional) - quantity and type are baker's choice
Other inclusions (optional fruit, nuts, cheese, herbs, etc.) - baker's choice
Three breads using the template, above, have been made since I floated the idea last week. A sandwich loaf by Gary Bishop, a sandwich loaf that I made, and a lean hearth bread that I made. While I haven't yet played with a sourdough version using the template, I can see that it would be a simple thing to preferment some of the flour (10-25%, say?) in a levain rather than using baker's yeast for leavening.
For our bakers who might feel they don't have the skills yet to take on this challenge, let me offer a bit of encouragement. First, you can look at each of the three breads in the preceding paragraph to get a sense of how the numbers translate into a real bread. Second, if you base your formula on a total of 1000g of flour, the math will be very simple (e.g., 60% of 1000g is 600g) and you will wind up with two large loaves or three smaller ones. You are certainly free to make a smaller batch if you want. Third, you can use techniques you are familiar with or you can use techniques that you've always wanted to try. For example, the seeds and grains component could be treated as a cold soaker, a hot soaker, a porridge, or receive no pretreatment at all.
Whatever you choose to do with this Community Bake, remember to have fun. It's an opportunity to exercise a little (or a lot) of creativity while still having enough of a framework to assure a good outcome. Ever see a kid using bumpers at the bowling alley? How they get the ball down the alley is up to them but they don't have to worry about throwing a gutter ball.
The fine print...
As always, the CB is a place created for a collaborative effort, both to enhance one’s skills as well as to help others with their skills. By no means is the template meant to be the be-all-and-end-all of the CB. Rather, it is a framework that allows multiple ways to achieve a bread that meets the general criteria. I encourage you to experiment and explore, to modify and to introduce to our CB participants your own experiences and versions. And most of all, to learn and help all of us to better ourselves as bakers. I also encourage you to find something you like, change one or many things about it and to make it your own!
And as Dan said:
All bakers of every skill level are invited to participate. Novice bakers are especially welcomed and plenty of assistance will be available for the asking. The Community Bakes are non-competitive events that are designed around the idea of sharing kitchens with like minded bakers around the world, "cyber style". To participate, simply photograph and document your bakes. You are free to use any formula and process you wish. Commercial Yeast, sourdough, or a combination of both are completely acceptable. Once the participants gets active, many bakers will post their formulas and methods. There will be many variations to choose from.
Here is a list of our past CBs. They remain active and are monitored by numerous users that are ready, willing, and able to help if assistance is needed. A quick browse of past CBs will provide an accurate picture of what these events are all about.
******************************************************************************************
Since many of the CBs grow quite large, it can become difficult to follow the progress of each individual baker. Things get very spread out. In an attempt to alleviate congestion and consolidate individual baker’s bread post, the following is suggested.
Links to baker’s BLOGs that have posted a compiled list of bakes for this CB
End note: Take notes while you bake. You may like the results so much that you want to make it again! And feel free to post more than one bread if you see something that inspires you to try more.
The crumb is springy yet soft. Couldn't ask for more.
Great looking bread and thanks for sharing! Looks somewhat similar to a Finnish rieska.
Here is my take on the brief.
It's got:
and here's a few pics:
This was the bulk ferment after a couple of folds. The dough was surprisingly stiff.
Not much oven spring on the batarde, but I've come not to expect much on these heavily seeded loaves, especially one such as this with a lot of wholegrain flour. I think they probably bake better as tin loaves, but I like to try!
Flavour was good with a touch of sour, crunchy seeds and a nice moist but well structured crumb.
Bread log here: https://docdro.id/d05iVv6
Lance
Now those are some dramatic-looking loaves, Lance! You might be sneaking into Benny territory. Nice work.
TomP
Thanks Tom - I don't think I'm ever going to be as prolific as Benny - or your good self!
Lance
The crumb is so lovely with its jewel like specks of orange. Of course I love the crust with that dense coating of seeds. This is a bread that I’d love to eat.
Benny
The carrots should add some sweetness even though you didn’t include any sugar. I like your combination of seeds and bran, Lance, and your decision to double up.
You mentioned the dough being stiff. What was the approximate hydration? In spite of that, I’d say the crumb looks pretty good for a bread with plenty of whole grain and lots of inclusions.
You have a bread to be proud of.
Paul
Thanks Paul & Benny. The carrot was interesting as I thought it would mush up and integrate into the crumb. I'm hoping its retained moisture will stop the crumb drying out and give good keeping qualities.
I estimate the overall hydration, if you include the seeds as a dry element to be hydrated, was 74%
And Paul, I would like to add my thanks to you for getting this CB up and running. It's given TFL a good shot in the arm and got a surprising and pleasing number of part time contributors (like myself) doing a special bake for it.
Lance
Paul, you really got something going with this CB! Thanks so much for taking it on! I would never have thought to try any of the three bakes I did without it. I've learned a lot, working them out. And I've learned so much from all the other takes on the theme, too.
TomP
Many thanks to you and the other TFL bakers who have taken a general outline and filled in the blanks in different and creative ways. I’m glad to hear that it has been a catalyst to try new things.
Community Bakes, no matter their subject, consistently bring out the best traits of TFL: exploration, encouragement, engagement, and education. (With a side of alliteration.) People share an experience. Skills are learned or honed. Support is given. Confidence grows. Everyone benefits; even those who don’t participate directly.
Yeah, I’m tickled to see how this CB is going. And I’m really curious to see what comes next.
Paul
1/3 bread flour
1/3 whole wheat flour
1/3 buckwheat flour, toasted & scalded with hot apple cider
10% grated raw sweet potato
5% grated granny smith apple
7.5% toasted pumpkin seeds
7.5% toasted sunflower seeds
1.5% salt
levain: 85g bread flour/85g whole wheat/50g buckwheat/50g rye sourdough starter/220g water
This was my first time trying a scald and the total dough hydration wound up being insane -- over 100% bc the scald took all the cider I had and I had to add extra water to get the final dough to come together.
Baked in a dutch oven for an hour at 450F, the first 22 minutes with the lid on.
Initial thoughts:
--this loaf is so moist that it feels almost like crusty cake rather than bread (probably a result, in part, of my heavyhanded addition of water to the final mix). I'm not sure that's what I would aim for if I were to bake with buckwheat again.
--despite all the great ingredients, the whole somehow feels less than the sum of the parts and I need to think about that -- how to bring the toasted buckwheat flavor forward or whether adding some aromatic seeds might increase the depth of the flavor or if I need to raise the sour profile to compensate for the cider sweetness.
--I might try this again dropping the buckwheat to 20% of the total and using bread flour for the rest -- to maximize the loft and airy quality.
Rob
Is the dark color attributable to toasting the buckwheat flour?
I'm a bit surprised to hear that the flavor was less than expected. The list of ingredients, plus toasting the buckwheat flour, would lead me to expect a flavor bomb. That you noticed a pronounced sweetness seems in line with the presence of the apple cider, apples, and sweet potato. Would using a dry hard cider in place of sweet cider shift the flavor substantially?
Overall, this sounds like a bread worth repeating, albeit at a more modest hydration level.
It just occurred to me that the buckwheat flour probably lost some moisture while toasting. So, even though the nominal hydration is very high, the effective hydration (after replacing the toasting moisture loss) might be less. The only way to know for certain would be to weigh the buckwheat flour before and after toasting. Further, the apple and sweet potato will both contribute moisture to the crumb; more during baking than during mixing.
Would there be any advantage to autolysing the bread and whole wheat flours and then combining them with the scald and other ingredients? Or would both be stiff enough that they would require extensive machine mixing to combine? Or maybe make a marbled bread with three colors: white (bread flour), tan (whole wheat flour), and chocolatey (buckwheat flour)? That would require some significant process changes but could be fairly striking in appearance. Hmm...
Thanks, Rob, for concocting such an interesting bread for this CB.
Paul
Would there be any advantage to autolysing the bread and whole wheat flours and then combining them with the scald and other ingredients?
That's what I've been doing lately. My thinking is to get the gluten-forming flours to start developing the gluten network without interference from brans or non-gluten flours. When they get mixed in later, the gluten network would already be in place. Whether or not that thinking is on target, the results have been good.
TomP
Honestly, it smells like chocolate, too!
I used Normandy extra dry hard cider ... 6% alcohol -- tho that undoubtedly burned off in the scald.
The autolyze idea is wonderful ... but it'd have to be a pretty dry one to avoid overhydration once the super hydrated scald is added.
The swirl could be the real deal -- maybe with some cinnamon. We could call it a bread & breakfast loaf.
Thanks, Paul!
As I had, in thinking you had used a sweet cider. You were already a step or three ahead of me.
So it smells like chocolate, too? That's cool! What if you subbed a porter or stout for the cider? That would play up the chocolate fragrance and flavor. You could even go so far as to include some cocoa if you really want to push the chocolate theme.
So many possibilities…
Paul
Glad I could inspire you. Love the idea of using raw grated potatoes. I’m sure with some further tinkering you will get this to the next level. It looks pretty good as is.
Best,
Ian
Paul, thanks for organizing this Community Bake. The result for me is a new bread that I intend to bake again (with some tweaks next time).
A preferment seemed a good idea, and I combined some starter (40 g) with bread flour (100 g) and whole wheat flour (100 g) along with water (250 g). That sat overnight and by the next morning had expanded nicely and become properly bubbly.
The first step after that was to mix everything except the levain and salt. Into the tub went bread flour (234 g), whole wheat flour (233 g), emmer flour (333 g), rye chops (50 g), oats (30 g), toasted sunflower seeds (20 g), and water (470 g). The mixture sat for thirty minutes, and I then added all of the levain and some salt (18 g). The components came together well, and I decided to do some French folds (eighty in all). Dough temperature was 73F, and my kitchen was 71F. Four stretch-and-fold sessions followed, with the first occurring twenty minutes after the initial mixing and then subsequent intervals of thirty, fifty, and fifty minutes. Total bulk fermentation was three hours and thirty-two minutes.
The dough then went onto the countertop for dividing and pre-shaping. After a twenty minute bench rest, the dough was shaped and placed into bannetons and then put in the refrigerator for an overnight proofing. The next morning one loaf went into a Dutch oven at 475F, and the other went onto a baking stone at 450F. Baking times, respectively, were forty-five and forty-three minutes.
The crust has a very nice flavor and an easily chewable texture. The crumb is flavorful too, and although somewhat dense, it is relatively light. The overall result is a bread that I will bake again, but with some changes next time.
One change will be to do a soaker of the add-ins. I opted to let the rye chops soak up water during the autolyze, bulk fermentation, and overnight proofing. They retained more crunchiness than I prefer. Another change will be to increase the hydration (which can be achieved in part via a soaker). Lastly, this dough probably needs only a couple of S&F (rather than four).
Although I have baked with emmer before, this was the first time that I combined it with whole wheat flour. My sense (perhaps I should say suspicion) is that those two grains produce a nice flavor, and the bread flour provides a lot of strength. One loaf was given to a friend, and I await her feedback.
Thanks to anyone reading this description, and I encourage you to give this combination of flours a whirl. Thanks to Paul, I did and am happy with the result.
Beautiful loaves and crumb!
When it comes to rye chops, cracked wheat, rolled oats, etc., I have been using a boiling water scald at 200% hydration followed by covering and cooling on the countertop for up to 8 hours. It does a great job of hydrating the grain without making a sloppy mess.
Sounds like you’re on that path too!
Yep, regarding the soaker, something along the lines of what I do for Hamelman's five-grain bread.
Hey, beautiful work! I've started working a bit with emmer, and thought about subbing it in this CB for the whole wheat. But I wasn't sure I could claim it to really be the whole wheat part of the template. I never thought of using it for the non-wheat component.
Like some others, I would be thinking about making a scald of bran/chops/other inclusions. I bet that would work a charm.
TomP
Thanks for your remarks. What caught my taste buds with this bread is the combination of whole wheat and emmer. The flavor produced by using those two together could be a hidden surprise from this bake, and I definitely want to see what happens with the next bake.
And it produced some pretty loaves, too.
I'm with you in wanting whole/cracked/chopped grains to be thoroughly soaked before they are incorporated in the dough. The same holds for harder and/or absorbent seeds, like chia, flax, hemp, millet, etc. Either a couple of hours in a hot soaker or an overnight cold soaker will soften them enough to avoid breaking teeth after baking. Chewy = good. Birdshot = bad.
It hadn't occurred to me to use an ancient wheat like emmer as the non-wheat flour component but this bread makes a good argument for doing just that. Good on you for thinking of it and giving it a try.
Interesting, too, how the emmer and the whole wheat flours combined to create a flavor that is something beyond your expectations.
From the photo, the crumb appears to be close but not dense. Based on the amount of ovenspring visible in the loaves, final fermentation might have been able to run a while longer. That might have lightened the crumb somewhat but I'd be thoroughly happy with it as it is.
Thank you for your Infinity Bread example.
Paul
The oven spring was good, but I suspect that the relatively low hydration contributed to the tightness of the crumb as much as a shorter bulk fermentation might have. Increasing the water should help the dough expand during the bulk phase, and doing an overnight soaker will take care of two issues (hydration and unwanted crunch).
Happy baking, and thanks again for heading up this Community Bake.
Thanks Paul for organizing this - what I appreciate about this one is the focus on the non-wheat component and the way it is presented as a framework. Gave me pause to think about this for a long time.
My first thought was to do something wild, perhaps using maize meal or polenta as an inclusion, but in the end I decided to play it safe and stick to rye, and to give myself a better chance of a good result I used sifted rye and some VWG. I also picked the flours carefully, and it is amusing that these are flours actually recommended by Paul himself - the bread flour is Eureka, the wholewheat is the amazing Lowerland estate blend wholewheat and the sifted rye is also from Lowerland.
The one loaf had rye seeds as a topping, I like the crunch it gives.
Had no idea how it was going to taste, did imagine it might be a little like Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough, but the end result surpassed my expectations and the crumb was more open than expected, especially since when I mixed up the inital autolyse the dough felt muddy like a high rye dough does and I thought I wouldn't be able to develop much gluten.
The flavour is more like a slightly tangy sourdough than expected and it didn't taste much like the wholewheat does on its own.
I did work the dough a fair amount - 10 minutes on the dough hook, 30 slap and folds and 36g of the water was added later by bassinage to up the hydration a little from the initial 70%. Think the bassinage also helps with gluten development as it is like a washing of the gluten. Because I need to go to sleep the breads were shaped and put in bannetons 2h50m after adding levain, and the small shrivelled breads went into the fridge. I took the bannetons out for 3 hours the next day before baking to let the loaves develop properly.
Thanks again, this CB certainly stretched me out of my usual baking slumber, and I actually think I've found a formula that I will use again and again.
I remember talking about flours in ZA. Eureka Meulens makes some very good products. Lowerland wasn't in existence while I was resident in South Africa, so I never had the opportunity to bake with their flours. Nice to know that they, too, have good stuff.
It looks as though you have a perfectly serviceable mischbrot, Jon. Lots of flavor, especially with the sourdough, and plenty of texture, thanks to the seeds. If you are among the non-fans of caraway seeds, you might try either dill seeds or fennel seeds in a future bake for another flavor boost.
From looking at the baked loaves, it's evident that you achieved good oven spring; both by the expansion of the slashes and the structure of the crumb. For a majority whole grain bread, partly rye at that, and the inclusion of the seeds, it is impressively light in texture. This is a good testament to your baking skills.
Thanks for jumping in for this CB.
Paul
Darned nice looking rye loaves!
TomP
Very nice looking loaves and excellent crumb!
I've started my additions to the CB. You can follow along on my blog post. I'll also post final pictures and comments here when they're done.
Tease!
Complete details in my blog post.
Roasted Cereal Grains (Total Ingredient List)
148.5g Bread Flour
148.5g Turkey Red (Fresh milled)
63g Whole Rye (Fresh milled)
18g Whole Spelt
18g Whole Einkorn
18g Bloody Butcher cornmeal (Roasted)
18g Buckwheat (Roasted)
18g Hulled Barley (Roasted)
225g Water
90g Blueberry-Apple Yeast Water
9g Sea Salt
13.5g Molasses
13.5g Honey
4.5g Coriander
22.5g Sunflower Seeds (Roasted)
0.5g Active Dry Yeast (ADY)
1st Poolish Build
18g Whole Rye
36g Yeast Water
2nd Poolish Build
45g Whole Rye
27g Yeast Water
Biga
45g Bread Flour
27g Water
0.2g ADY
Scald
18g Bloody Butcher
18g Buckwheat
18g Barley
22.5g Sunflower seeds
133g Water (boiling)
Honey Ginger Sesame (Total Ingredient List)
148.5g Bread Flour
148.5g Turkey Red
63g Whole Kamut (Fresh milled)
22.5g Whole Spelt (Fresh milled)
45g Coconut Flour
22.5g White Rice Flour
225g Water
90g Blueberry-Apple Yeast Water
9g Sea Salt
22.5g Honey
22.5g Fresh Ginger Root (minced)
11.3g Sesame Seeds (Roasted)
0.5g Active Dry Yeast (ADY)
1st Poolish Build
18g Whole Kamut
36g Yeast Water
2nd Poolish Build
45g Whole Kamut
27g Yeast Water
Biga
45g Bread Flour
27g Water
0.2g ADY
Scald
45g Coconut Flour
22.5g White Rice Flour
22.5g Ginger Root
11.3g Sesame Seeds
135g Water (boiling)
Roasted Cereal Grains on the right.
Roasted Cereal Grains
Honey Ginger Sesame
Looks like a labour of love, very neat looking loaves Troy. And how did they taste???
-Jon
Thanks Jon! Baked them this morning, so I haven’t tried them yet.
I’ve made the honey ginger before but with slightly different flour blend. The Kamut and coconut are new along with the non-bread flour components being higher. It is very aromatic from the ginger and is on the sweet side. It was excellent with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. 😉
Less open than I thought I’d get going into the bake, but about what I expected after baking. Very soft crumb despite the dense look. Very similar in texture to a gluten free loaf. Excellent flavor with both the ginger and the sesame noticeable.
Such good looking loaves - makes me want to slice one right now!
TomP
Thank you Tom!
His bakes often have an "everything but the kitchen sink" vibe but you've produced two different breads, one with 16 ingredients and one with 14 ingredients. That's something!
Joking aside, either of those breads would be a treatise for imaginative use of ingredients and techniques. I wish I could taste them because I doubt that I'll ever be able to replicate them. (Side note: you might want to jump over to the thread going on right now about achieving a noticeable ginger flavor in bread to let them know your results with your Honey-Ginger bread.)
These are some beautiful breads, Troy, inside and out. I'm so glad that this CB coincided with you coming off a long period of not posting. You evidently had some pent-up baking to do!
Paul
Thank you Paul for the kind words. Dethrone…. never. Protege at best. I did have a lot of fun with Ian’s beer bread recipe and that bake did start me using things like coriander more in my bakes.
If it’s any consolation, I’m not sure I could repeat these bakes either. 🤣. If I were to try one though, it would be the Honey Ginger Sesame. Only because it’s atypical from what you usually see. To simplify it without really taking away from the overall concept, I would…
- replace the 2-build YW poolish and biga with a single build ADY poolish (or biga if you prefer) at 25% PFF using bread flour
- replace the coconut, rice, and Kamut flours with AP and use whole wheat in the scald
Thank you again for hosting the CB!
He’s certainly making my head hurt reading all of these ingredients! I will have to join the fun soon. Watch out Troy I’m coming for you 😂👑
🤣🤣🤣
Can’t wait to see what you come up with.
Okay, I didn't write down any notes, but I think I made this with:
159g whole rye flour
159g whole wheat flour
85g white flour (all-purpose), plus more for shaping
150g starter
235g pumpkin water
1tsp salt
2tbsps butter
48g raw pumpkin seeds, and about again as much for putting on the outside of the loaf, although a lot of those ended up inside the loaf due to shaping problems.
I mixed the salt, 205g water, and wholegrain flours together and let that sit for several hours, then I added the starter and white flour, kneaded it some, added 20g more water because it felt too dry, then added the butter and kneaded it more, then added the seeds and let it rise for some hours, then shaped it, adding more seed to the outside, put it in a loaf pan, let it rise more, then baked it at 375F for 25 mins in a roasting pan with water and 25 mins out of the roasting pan.
After the first rise, the dough was very sticky and not very stretchy. It was as if it were mostly rye. The end result also has that feel. It's hard and dense, but at least it's not gluey. Actually, it has sort of a creamy texture. The taste is a bit sweet (I assume from the pumpkin water), but also fairly bland. I probably should have added more salt. I don't mind the bread at all, but my family likes soft fluffy bread, so I don't think I will make it again.
We like hefty, seedy, wholegrain breads here!
Tell me more about the pumpkin water, please. How is it made? Is it purely for hydration and flavor, or is it part of the leavening?
It appears that it had some oven spring while baking, based on the cracking of the top crust, the domed top, and the appearance of the cross-section of the crumb. I wonder whether docking or slashing the loaf just before it was baked might have allowed it to expand even more?
You've come up with a thoroughly lovely (and I expect delicious) bread. Thank you for your contribution!
Paul
Oh, sorry, the pumpkin water is just the water drained from pumpkin after cooking it, or after thawing it. Pumpkin juice might be a better term. It's only for flavour (and possibly nutrition). I just have a bunch leftover from cooking up our Hallowe'en pumpkins and I don't like to throw it out. In this case I peeled and cut up the pumpkins and baked them for a few hours at a low temperature in a large roasting pan, and when the pumpkin pieces were soft, they were swimming in water, which I drained off, and I also put the pumpkin pieces into a collander to drain them even more.
You reminded me of this video of someone making a historical pumpkin water bread recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76Yv3Feazk . My pumpkin water looks more watery than his.
Yes, the bread had a modest amount of oven spring. Very modest. I put it in the oven just when the top of the dough reached the top of the pan, and it was about 1cm over the top of the pan when I took it out of the oven. I think it shrank down by a few mm while it was cooling, though. I find it very difficult to slash bread in a loaf pan when it hasn't risen over the top of the pan, since I only use a knife, but it might indeed have helped. Probably there are some problems with the amount of kneading and the rise times, too. The dough was actually quite stretchy and nice after I finished kneading it, but not so much after the first rise. Maybe I let it go too long (or not long enough), or maybe it's just too much whole grain and not enough gluten for a good rise.
We recently baked some pumpkin, too, and had plenty of water draining from it after it cooked. I just wasn’t sure of your meaning. Thanks for clarifying.
Thanks for the link, too.
Paul
My contribution to the community bake based on pmcool's specs - This is a delightful bread made with bread flour, fresh milled hard red wheat and bloody butcher corn, water, pepita seeds, diastatic malt, and honey (formula and process are in the original post). The crust turned out nice and crunchy with a toasty flavor. The crumb is soft with a semi coarse texture from the milled corn. My semi-biased tasters gave this bake a 2 thumbs up.
Here's the original post - https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/73182/community-bake-infinity-bread
Tony
They look great and nice mix of ingredients! Can’t go wrong with the milled corn. 👍
Thanks HeiHei29er, gotta love the corn and the honey.
Tony
It’s easy to see why your tasters give it a positive review. The variety of scoring styles for the individual loaves adds visual appeal, too.
Nice to see those russet shades that mark a robust bake.
Paul
Thanks for the complement Paul and thanks for getting the CB started. It is interesting to see the creativity folks are exhibiting with these bakes.
Tony
Great bakes!
Ian
I have been wanting to try this for a while now. My DH makes Kombucha constantly and I get tired of drinking it, so I thought, hmmm I wonder if I can bake with it? Starting small and just used it for a soaker, those oats smelled amazing in the morning I have to say. It turned out I didn't have as many hazlenuts as I thought, so I added seeds.
Here goes nothing....
Soaker:
25g Hazlenuts, roughly chopped
25g Sunflower Seeds
25g Pumpkin Seeds
90g Oats
100g Kombucha
100g Water
Soaked only 25 g of oats with other ingredients overnight and decided I wanted more oats in the am. So added 65g of oats and 100g boiling water to soak while I prepared the rest.
300g Fresh milled Rye
300 g Fresh milled Soft White Flour
310 g. King Arthur All purpose Flour
160 g. Chopped dates
Put all the above in the bowl of Kitchenaid with 350g of water. Stir to make a shaggy dough. Let sit for 30 minutes with 15g of salt resting on top.
Add 210g bubbly 100% hydration sourdough starter adjusted water adding about 90g.
Mix until internal temperature is about 76 df mix in 80g room temp butter, until dough cleans the sides of the bowl.
Cover and ferment about 2 hours, shape and rest in banneton for 3 hours. Bake in DO at 450df lid on 40 mins 10 mins lid off.
It's delicious, crunchy crust, buttery slightly sweet crumb. It's going to be awesome as my morning toast. I might have cut into it before I should have....
Thanks for a fun challenge!
I can hear Arte Johnson saying “Verrrry interesting!”
From what you’ve observed, how did the kombucha affect the dough and the finished bread? Is it about the same as putting beer in bread, other than flavor? Or does it have some unique traits of its own?
Although combing hazelnuts and dates hadn’t occurred to me, they seem like a very natural pairing now that you’ve mentioned it.
Did you use whole oat groats in the soaker, or rolled oats?
Thanks for sharing your creation with us.
Paul
Kombucha had no real difference in how the dough behaved from using beer for instance, but I only put it in the soaker. It is actually a very nice flavour. I didn't use enough or wasn't scientific enough to tell you if it has any unique traits, it tastes good, and didn't mess up the bake? ;-)
I have done hazelnut and fig before and it's delicious, but I didn't have any figs, so I went for dates, it's really quite tasty!
Rolled oats in the soaker.
It was a timely bake, I was itching to do something different. I get in a bread rut some times....
Carolann
The use of the fermented beverage in the soaker is genus!
Very nice.
Is this enough ingredients for you all 🫣. I made a bacon and cheese bread a few weeks ago which I haven’t posted yet. This challenge bread is completely different especially since I doubled the amount of bacon. I used freshly sprouted and milled green corn flour and freshly milled durum and rye. I toasted black sesame seeds and used almost an entire pack of bacon. I shredded the Vermont sharp cheddar. The durum was supposed to be sprouted but I didn’t dry out the sprouted grain enough and it got all jammed up in my Mockmill 200 so I had to change it up and just use “boring” old regular milled milled flour 🙄. I was very happy how this turned out. It tastes phenomenal and worth making again.
A hit! A most palpable hit! I just want to toast a slice and taste it right now.
"Green corn"? No one says that. I asked about green corn at some farm venue this summer and no one knew what I meant. You do mean sweet summer corn, right?
Nice loft on the loaf, too.
TomP
This does make amazing toast with some butter or a grilled cheese sandwich.
I kid you not, Barton Springs Mill has green, red and blue varieties.
Oaxacan GreenOaxacan Green corn is a centuries-old variety that is a favorite of the Zapotec peoples, utilized in their green tamales and tortillas.This dent variety exhibits complex nutty, earthy flavors and aromas, and is high in starch. It lends a subtle yellow-green hue when cooked or baked.I hope you get a chance to try this one.
Thanks again for your comments.
Ian
Dupe
Bacon and smoked maple syrup? Coulda used smoked cheddar and some freekeh, too, y'know.
The sprouted corn is something I don’t remember seeing before. What does it bring to the party?
It occurs to me that this bread might make some fantastic French toast. Bacon. Cheese. Add some eggs and more maple syrup. Yep, that should work.
That's a really nice, and pretty, bread, Ian.
Paul
I actually buy a smoked bacon Vermont Cheddar when we visit Vermont but that may have been overkill 🙄. You can sprout just about any grain so I figured I would try corn. It actually creates a “sweeter” tasting flour and was a good match with the fresh durum and rye. This definitely would make a killer French toast and I’m going to do that for sure. Thanks for your kind words and creating this challenge which was great fun and tasty too!
The degree of creativity and the willingness to push the envelope have been amazing so far. I’ve no doubt that any future participants will bring equally intriguing concepts.
Since this Community Bake has been up for a couple of weekends now, I’m willing to cede the floor to whomever would like to get a new one rolling. There had been some other suggestions when I first floated the idea for this CB. If someone wants to pick a bread or a theme and run with it, please do.
Many thanks to all of you for what you brought to this CB.
Paul
Paul, thank you for proposing and hosting this CB. It's certainly expanded my baking horizons. Since my first offering for the challenge in early November, I've so far baked 10 wholly different breads. Most of them wouldn't even have occurred to me, let alone made it to the stage of a loaf cooling on the cooling rack.
And that's not to mention the eye-opening submissions I haven't tried to reproduce. Wow.
Thank you.
TomP
I haven't done a community bake yet, and haven't been active here for a looong time, but this looked intriguing and I gave it a try. I had some blue corn flour so that is what I used for my non wheat flour. I'd been wanting to try a bread with some of this flour since I received it this summer.
Full post with formula and description is over on my blog post: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/73238/community-bake-infinity-bread
Thanks, this was fun as I was out of my element compared to what I usually bake.
Nice work!
I wonder if the density you mention might have been mitigated by room-temperature fermentation, instead of a retarded fermentation in the refrigerator? My starter in my refrigerator takes about a week to double, which is why I ask.
Whatever the case, you've achieved a bread that looks worth repeating. Thanks for joining the CB.
Paul
Perhaps it could have fermented at room temperature for longer, or allowed it to warm up more after shaping the next day. The starter fermented at room temp, was very active when mixed into the dough, the dough fermented at room temp for ~4 hours before going in the fridge overnight. But since I don't usually use the sesame seeds and corn flour additions I'm not sure how they change / slow down the rise. Anyway, not a disappointment by any means, the flavor is really good, even if I tend to favor a bit more airy crumb.
Was it corn flour and did you scald it?
I didn't scald the corn flour. After doing some research though it appears it would have been a good idea. I was starting to get lost in accounting for hydration due to the soaker already. (see the out of my element part in the original post) I've read a bit about accounting for moisture in the scald, but I'm still not sure how to calculate, or just estimate / account for it. Is there a tried and true method or a guideline?
I have some more of the blue corn flour so I'll be looking for ideas on how to incorporate it into another loaf, and it sounds like a scald is a definite consideration.
I have the same problem with hydration. Here's what I've been doing and it seems to help. I assume that all the water in the scald or whatever will contribute to the hydration, and then I withhold some water during initial mixing. 30g/1oz might be enough in many cases. I will work in more water if the dough seems too dry, during mixing or after an autolyse or even during a first S&F.
This is especially helpful since when you have a dough with wet inclusions and you don't understand the hydration effect of the inclusions, the dough will feel different from more usual dough, making it harder to gauge the appropriate hydration. Working in more water a little at a time helps you work around this and end up with a dough that handles well.
For example, I just made a loaf that included some wet ingredients that I cooked down first. I assumed that they included 80% of their weight in water (I weighed them) but I knew that some of that water would evaporate during cooking. I guessed that the end water would be 50%, not 80%, of the weighed value. So I subtracted that weight from the water I would have used for the target 70% hydration. Then I subtracted another 30g. During mixing there was obviously not enough water and I ended up adding back 20g. After a 30 minute rest, I thought the dough was still a little dry so I added back another 10g. That seems to have been about right.
TomP
Thanks TomP, those are good guidelines to start from.
That much corn flour would promote a dense crumb - and a top-notch taste!
TomP
After wrapping up my holiday baking I was able to try my hand at an Infinity Bread. My formula didn't quite meet the 30, 30, 30 brief, but it's close. The formula is from Chef Joanne Chang of Flour Bakery in Boston and her cookbook Pastry Love for english muffins. I wanted something easier for production in my micro-bakery so wanted to make it in a loaf. I did an experiment with it awhile back and one of my customers said it was the best bread I ever made. The formula uses an overnight poolish.
Poolish
Final
My kitchen is fairly cool and I went about 2 1/2 hours for bulk ferment with about 3 full stretch and folds; and about 2 hours for proofing. The loaves were scaled at ~400 gr each in a disposable loaf pan, for regular production I'd probably make at 500 each.
Janice
Thanks for posting an interesting looking formula - I might try this sometime. It looks like it makes a good tin loaf.
A question about your buttermilk: is it buttermilk or is it yoghurt? I couldn't work it out from your recipe.
Lance
Thanks, it is buttermilk but it is cultured with yogurt when being made, so thicker and more flavorful than skim buttermilk.
Made some toast today with this bread and it is light and airy and very flavorful.
Enjoy.
And the ingredient list gives me the impression that it would be very tasty, too. I think it's a lovely addition to this Community Bake. Thank you for sharing!
Paul
I don't post a lot any more but have enjoyed CBs a lot in the past. I love using Emmer flour in my bread so I have based this bake on his version.
I refreshed my starter, initially 15g:15g:15g then thought it was quite sluggish so gave it a mixed feed but I didn’t write down exactly what I did, but it was a mix of rye, whole wheat & bread four. I took 55 g of this and added 182 g water 75 g whole wheat and 107 g bread flour. This was left over night and was lovely and bubbly in the morning. I had to go out so popped it in the fridge, planning on being home at midday. I was however 4 pm before I could start.
The flour ratio was as Ted used but scaled to make one loaf, so 96 g bread flour + 93 g whole wheat and 133 g Emmer flour plus 196 g of the levain made the night before and 198 g water ( 10 g more as it seemed too stiff) plus 6.5 g salt
My additions were nominally 10% and started off as kibbled rye, oats and toasted sunflower seed but I changed my mind and went with Cranberries, oats and pecan nuts (20 g each so no longer 10%). The oats and cranberries were soaked in 10 g milk & 20 hot water for about 30 minutes.
After mixing I always do a few SLAFs to bring the dough together and rested for 40 minutes before laminating the dough. At this point I added the chopped pecan nuts. I did a further 3 sets of coil folds before leaving dough to bulk ferment. I had a little concern about the dough at the final coil as it looked a bit different – not smooth as usual.
An hour later I decided dough looked as if it was over fermented or degraded so I preshaped and rested for 20 minutes before final shaping and retarding overnight.
I was also making a 30% rye loaf in parallel and this didn’t look overfermented at all. Both went into the fridge immediately after shaping.
This morning I preheated the oven to 240 degrees C scored the Emmer loaf, spritzed it and baked it for 17 minutes in my DO followed by 20 minutes uncovered at 235 degrees C. The underside of the loaf showed the same signs as the night before. The smell of the loaf baking was wonderful. It has come out flat and I am quite disappointed with that but the taste was earthy with pops of pecan and cranberry flavour which I really enjoyed.
The other loaf which was just a simple 1:2:3 with 30% of the flour rye performed as I would expect.
Both crumb shots side by side
I just don’t know what caused the degradation or overfermentation of the Emmer loaf as it was only 4.25 hours between mixing and retarding. Any thoughts and suggestions please as I would like to try again – the flavour was great.
Leslie
Interesting, Leslie - and good to see you posting again!
I recently did a bake with Emmer; it was a fairly standard bake for me with 20% Emmer fresh milled, 5% spelt, 3% rye, 25% stiff levain, retarded in fridge overnight. Hydtation was 77% - slightly higher than my usual 73%. Bulked to 40% in 4hrs, 20mins bench rest. No ambient proof for shaped loaves - all pretty normal.
But when I baked it the morning after, I could tell straight away it was overproofed and sure enough, the loaves were a bit flat with no ears. Flavour was good.
So maybe it is an Emmer thing? But, I would suggest, not a feature of Einkorn or Spelt.
Lance
Back in September I baked a loaf with 50% emmer, 50% bread flour -
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/72946/50-emmer-sourdough
Earlier I had baked similar loaves with spelt and einkorn. The emmer seemed to be in between spelt and einkorn in its handling properties.
That loaf was also retarded overnight after being shaped, so it's somewhat comparable to this one. I have learned to do three things to make these kinds of loaves work out pretty well:
1. Sift out the bran first. You can use it for a soaker before use, or better, add the bran or soaker back after the gluten has set up if you like (in which case use less water in the initial mix);
2. Include the salt when you mix the dough, then give it a rest. Leaving out the salt promotes an extensible dough and emmer/einkorn/spelt is going to be very extensible as it is. Including the salt from the start encourages more elasticity and less extensibility.
3. During shaping, work with the dough much more than you normally would - being gentle! The dough will be very extensible but it shouldn't actually feel dead. For the linked emmer loaf, I stretched it out into a large rectangle almost as if I were laminating the dough. I folded the sheet into a rectangle with letter-type folds. I rolled this up into cylinder. So far this is much like what you see in some videos.
At this point I thought the dough still wasn't elastic enough. So I took that cylinder and rolled *it* up along its long axis to end up with a very stubby, fat little cylinder. I worked with this a little to elongate it a bit, stitched the bottom, and it's this short fat cylinder that went in the banneton and then the refrigerator.
the last Emmer bake I posted here (50% Emmer) did not give me any problems as you can see (september 2022)
I will try again once I have eaten this current batch. I wondered if it was the starter but the rye loaf was fine so I suspect it must be the combination of flours - perhaps weaker gluten, but perhaps I will sift out the bran ( haven't felt the need to do this for a while) and feed it to the starter or the soaker. good suggestions thanks
Leslie
and have never had this happen. Emmer doesn't have a strong flavour - depending on how I feel I will use anything between 20 to 50% Emmer. I do have Einkorn and struggle with that - my loaves are flatter but not as flat as this loaf. I wonder if it is the whole wheat potion together with the Emmer. I think it would have been better baked in a loaf tin?
thanks Lance, I am still baking just not as frequently - it feels good to have posted here again,it is such a great community
Leslie
Lesle, have you baked this bread before? At first I had a feeling this flatness and the fact that your dough was so lax could be a combination of overproofing and your hydration being a bit high. I have always struggled with hydration in breads with a high percentage of dry additions and/or soakers and, based on experience, as a rule of thumb I calculate the dry weight of all those additions as well as the amount of liquids used for soaking into the hydration formula (I add the dry weight to the weight of the flours and liquids - to liquids). If I discard some of the liquid, I weigh it and subtract from the hydration formula.
But when I calculate your bread's hydration I come up to 56%, this should be a very stiff dough! So I would feel this is either the case of overproofing, or poor gluten development; in fact it seems unlikely to me that (per my rough calculations) under 40% of bread flour would hold up the remaining 60+% of flours incapable of developing strong gluten fibers, at least unless it was an extra strong or gluten fortified flour. So there would be little holding up a bread this much risen. Compare that to your 30% rye bread that had 70% of bread flour holding it up. In my experience breads that don't have enough gluten development always end up fairly flat.
On another note, do you have much experience with "popping" levains into the fridge for a while? I am asking because I never do that, I either let them overferment, which doesn't seem to hurt anything all that much, or give them an extra feeding to keep them active. Somehow I don't like the idea of using an ice-cold (i.e., slowed down) levain, it seems to me counterproductive. But perhaps I am wrong, any thoughts on that?
A.
it hasnt been an issue before. I do warm it up before use though. the whole wheat was freshly milled and maybe this impacted the dough - the gluten level in. this flour should have been ok but perhaps it is weaker.
I will retry in a week or two and see if I can get a. better result. thanks for your suggestions I will keep them in mind next bake.
Leslie
The way I understand it, whole grains have a different kind of gluten, it does not build strong gluten networks to "hold up" the bread. Regrettably, only white wheat flours have this kind of gluten. So I believe the less white flour you use, the stronger it should be if you want big, open crumb. There are strong flours with as much as 15% gluten (protein), as an alternative you can add a few grams of vital gluten (never tried this myself, though), this also supposedly helps bring up the developable gluten content to hold your non-gluten flours up. I have also found that for these types of breads I have better luck with stiff (50% hydration) 50/50 white/whole wheat starter. So I keep maybe 15-30 grams of this starter alongside a similar amount of my 100% hydration whole rye starter in the refrigerator. I feed the stiff wheat starter 1:5:2.5 each time before a bake and use the result for building the levain as well as providing another 15-30 gram batch for the refrigerator. This way I produce hardly any discard at all.
and it is only perhaps 50 - 60 grams at a time but it is white. It is coming up to 10 years old! this time the starter build was initially white then a mix of white, rye and whole wheat to give it a bit of a boost. before bed I built the starter for the actual bake.
I will look at maybe adding some gluten to the flour at the next bake. maybe a loaf with gluten and a loaf without. Thanks again
Leslie
but still a good looking bread. I could see enjoying a couple of slices of this, toasted, with a cup of tea. Some almond butter and a drizzle of honey might be a nice accompaniment.
Thanks for participating in the CB, Leslie. And for such a creative bread!
Paul
Lol, I now have a new bread to perfect
Leslie
I present to you an Infinity Bread realization of soda bread -
For background on this general approach to soda bread, see my post here -
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/73572/highrise-soda-bread
This bake follows Paul's general template for Infinity Bread although it's leavened by baking soda instead of yeast/levain, and the hydration is about 100%, higher than the template suggests. I'm sure Paul won't mind, though!
The loaf is a mixture of Irish-style whole wheat, AP, rye, and emmer flours. Inclusions are caraway seeds to complement the rye, nigella seeds to bring a bit of pop and acridity to cut through the heavy grains, and rolled oats because heck, Irish, right? The crust is very crunchy all around, not just on the top though that is browned more. The crumb is surprisingly open, given this is a grain-heavy soda bread. The taste is stunning. All the components seem to be balanced just about right, with the rye/caraway making itself known in the background and the emmer moderating the whole-wheaty flavor, making it richer than it would otherwise be.
Recipe
=======
140g AP flour
140g KA Irish-style whole wheat flour
84g sifted whole grain rye (or medium rye)
56g sifted emmer
400g buttermilk
6g baking soda
10g baking powder
8.5g nigella seeds
5g caraway seeds
30g rolled (UK: porridge) oats
Process
=======
- Preheat oven to 450 deg F/232C;
- Line pot with parchment paper;
- Combine dry ingredients;
- Add buttermilk (hold some back until it's clear more is needed);
- Mix in bowl with spatula;
- Adjust buttermilk if needed;
- Bowl folds using spatula - tighten it up but don't work the dough too much;
- Scrape or place into pot;
- Spray or wet top with water;
- Smooth with narrow end of pastry scraper;
- Wet end of scraper and push down to form a cross of slits;
- Cover pot and put in oven;
- Bake 50 - 55 minutes then remove top and bake for 10 - 15 minutes more;
- Remove from oven, decant, remove parchment paper.
I'm able to get the unusual height because I use a small, 2L pot that is relatively narrow and tall compared with the usual Dutch oven. It's small enough to contain the dough - which BTW was more of a very thick paste - so it has to rise up instead of spreading out sideways. Note that I did not preheat the pot.
The reason for using both baking soda and baking powder is that the baking soda is enough to neutralize the acid from the buttermilk but I wanted some more rising power. The baking powder provides that without acidifying the dough. There's probably more than enough baking soda than is needed to react with the buttermilk, and any extra probably contributed to the browning on the top.
I continue to be amazed (and impressed) by the creative minds and the creative breads of this community.
Yes, the template assumed yeasted (commercial or wild) breads. However, it is a template and not a rigid doctrine. So, why not riff with chemical leaveners in place of yeast?
This looks like an eminently edible and delicious bread, Tom. You may have gone where none of the sons or daughters of Eire have gone before but you've come up with a gem. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Paul
Thanks, Paul! You had no idea what you were going to unleash, did you, when you proposed this Community Bake? What a great favor you have done for all of us.
Toasted and spread with butter this morning, this bread is utterly delicious.
TomP
I expected surprises but had no clue what they might be. The breads created for this CB have been more than I could have imagined. And yet, that's exactly what I expected. Something of a paradox, no?
Paul
That does look delicious!
Whenever I've made a whole grain soda bread, I'm always reminded at how good the flavor is. It's like the essence of the whole wheat and other grains comes through with the simple process. I've made this recipe several times, either with all whole wheat flour or with some whole einkorn flour or soft wheat flakes added, and it's always delicious.
I made one of those after I received a bag of Irish-style flour. It was all right, but I like what I'm doing now better (I don't mean this exact recipe, more the way I've been making soda bread).