So I’ve tried making my own starter a couple of times and it didn’t seem to be working.
My first starter I had for 2 months but no matter what changes I did, the starter never seemed to get strong enough to make bread. It was definitely fermenting and I saw tiny bubbles, but that was it. I tried everything under the sun (flour change, water change, temp change, hydration change, stirring and waiting till borderline starving then feeding, higher ration 1:5:5) to get it to work and to be more lively, but nothing. So I decided to try again and the same thing is happening.
In the end I went to a local store 20 minutes away from my house (Florida if you guys wanna know) that specializes in sourdough and they graciously let me have some of their starter. All they told me is to feed roughly around 12 hours and feed 2 cups flour and 1 cup water. Obviously I wanted to ask more questions but it seemed like they were too busy.
Their starter smells like yeasty beer and it’s just an awesome smell. My starters never got to that. Even though the starter wasn’t as bubbly as I thought it should be, it had large bubbles on bottom and small to non existent bubbles on top, I could clearly tell that it was different and more alive than the ones I tried to make.
After some measuring, I figured that the 2 cups flour is 292g white flour, as their starter is white (after fluffing in the bag), 1 cup water would be 235g and the starter they gave me is roughly 1 cup so I got a measurement of 200g.
With some rusty math, I think it came out to be a 1:1.5:1.2 ratio at at 80% hydration. Am I wrong?
I’m nervous that it’s going to flop like my their starters.
Two cups of flour of flour would be about 250 g for flour listed on the bag at 32 g per 1/4 cup. That's pretty close to 100% hydration, which seems most likely.
Anyway, don't obsess about these exact ratios. A starter will work over a wide range of hydration, and the main difference would be in how often you have to feed it, and how hard it is to mix in the refreshment. A change in hydration of 10 or 20% will not wreck a starter.
If you have persistent problems with getting a starter going, the problem may lie in something about the water (chlorine or high pH, for example). If that's the case, you might have troubles keeping this new one going - but with luck, it's a stable enough environment that it can tolerate the conditions anyway. Adding an ounce of pineapple juice (or some other source of acid) might allow your own starter mixtures to start flourishing. It's worth trying. If that doesn't work out, I'd try making a new starter again, but using bottled drinking water and the pineapple juice. Once it's fermenting well, stop the pineapple juice.
TomP
I do use bottled water so I would think that would be ok. I did think about starting the 2nd starter with pineapple juice but I guess I wanted to try one more time without it to see if there was something else that I did wrong.
What you are up against here is that most people creating a starter don't have any trouble, or if they do then the next time they don't. So most of us just have to guess what may not be working and then suggest something that might get it to work.
The only thing I've noticed about your flours is that it would be worth using some or all whole wheat or whole rye (or a mix) to get the starter kicked off. Once it's well established then starters can usually work well refreshed with just AP flour.
I suppose that if your flours got stored at a really high temperature at some point - probably over 100 or 120 deg F or more, I'm not sure - then the yeast in the flour that would normally build a starter could have been denatured or killed. Then the starter wouldn't be able to get going. This doesn't seem likely, but then again it's Florida (!).
It sounds like you have lots of options here. First, let’s look at some basics. It’s very intimidating when you first make a starter, you want to get everything just right. Rest assured, starters are really easy to maintain once they are established. The bugs (lactobacilli or LAB and yeast) want to survive, and you need only provide the elements necessary for them to do so. Their needs are simple, a suitable environment (temperature and humidity) and food. Starters come in all shapes and sizes, and are quite flexible.
You didn’t mention what type of flour you are using for your own attempts, but it should be unbleached at the very least. My preference is organic, if that is available to you. The process that you follow is equally important. Hopefully you are not following a strict timetable, but rather evaluating the starter at each stage. If you are seeing small bubbles, perhaps it just needs more time for the population to grow to a sustainable level between feedings.
Your calculation of 80% hydration is correct for your acquired starter as far as you measured it but flour seems a bit high. The same process conditions apply. As you are in Florida, I imagine that the ambient temperature should be warm enough. If you keep your home highly air conditioned, though, it may be too cold. It has been a rule of thumb that the optimal temperature for rising sourdough bread and starter is 78*F as this maximizes the yeast without overgrowing the LAB. That said, I live in San Francisco, which is a cooler climate with temperatures closer to 68* even in the summer and my starter does fine. Your starter will adapt to the environment in time, so be patient.
-Brad
My starters normally start, grow, refresh, and raise bread between 71 and 76 deg F on the countertop. They live in the refrigerator in between. There is really nothing fussy about creating a starter or making basic bread, so don't get hung up on details. Consistency is good, exact hydration and rising time are not of much importance for everyday home bread baking. So - measure carefully, preferably by weight, for consistency, not because the recipe will fail if you don't get every little thing bang on.
Feeding and storing a starter in a consistent way will lead to consistent performance, whatever the details are.
TomP
Thank you. I am using unbleached organic Arrowhead Mills AP. The other starters that I have made have been unbleached and organic AP or Bread flour from King Author. I had a terrible t8e with the bread flour. And I am using bottle spring water.
I have not been strictly watching the time after learning so much from my first starter. I watch the rise, bubbles, thickness and smell. It seemed like my starter was very liquidy and not holding bubbles so I thought a lower hyrdration would work. I’ve also read on this forum that many people from Florida keep mentioning climate and hydration in the air and how to hold back some water while working with bread. I have the ac on and it’s at a constant 72-73. I also take the temp internally of the starters I made. Depending where it was, in the kitchen closet it’s 75 during day and probably lower at night. In my closet it can be 76 during the day.
You did the right thing. You got yourself a working starter!
There are two reasons for nervousness. One is fearing that the starter won't survive. Another is fearing that you won't treat it right and it will change or worsen and won' t leaven your bread.
It's understandable. Remember that you can always either go back to that bakery for another cup of starter or get one from other Florida bakers or from all over the world by mail.
Save a teaspoon of that starter that they gave you by drying it. You can dry it by smearing it on a piece of baking parchment or by mixing it with a little bran cereal and then letting it dry. My friends shared with me as little as three grams of their dried starters sent by mail and I restored them into thriving starters within several hours. You need that little in reserve!
Feed your starter twice a day as they told you, every 8-12 hours, i.e the precision does not matter that much. You do not have to be a slave to it and feed it presicely every 12 hrs sharp.
Numerically, it is 1:1:1, because one cup is 250 g of stirred (deflated) starter, one cup is 250g water, and sifted or spooned flour is 125g per cup, 250g per two cups. Use malted bread flour for feeding it. And clean water, maybe bottled demineralized water if you are not sure that your tap water or your filtered at home water is safe for starters.
Once you get that starter going and having a reserve of it in dry form which can keep indefinitely, you will be able to create your own starter from scratch for sure. Or explore other people's starters, there are many wonderful starters out there to explore!
Godspeed!
I consider myself a beginner baker, but I've kept my starter alive and have been using it for about a year. My first starter was not good, and like you I got some from someone else (Breadtopia) and was nervous about the next steps. The Breadtopia owner made this video, and I found it to be one of the most useful, and self-empowering, explanations out there. (This was the Part 1 to that video series, but you might be past that point already!)
FWIW, I feed mine equal weight tap water and all-purpose flour (Houston city water and our regular not-fancy flour). I keep it on the counter when I'm using it (80 degrees inside in the summer) and in the refrigerator if I'm not using it for the week. So far, so good!
If you're still nervous after this, why not divide your starter into 2 containers, feeding both but maybe differently? That way you have a backup.
UPDATE:
So I’ve had the new starter for almost 2 days. I have been feeding it with my flour and water I’ve been using for the other starters with the ratio I have made with yesterday. The starter is thriving like crazy, tripling in around 6-7 hours and still smelling like how I got it. Very bubbly.
I have also dried out some of the other starter just in case.
i still have the starter I made. I’m kinda hoping if I keep the two starters together, maybe the culture from the other one will mix with mine and kick start it? I don’t know, I just noticed someone had this happen when they bought a dried starter online and kept their old one that wasn’t working and then suddenly they both worked.
That's good news, all right. But if you feed the new to the one you made that didn't behave well and it takes off, it will probably be because the non-working one becomes converted to the new working one. It would not be the case that the old one was just ready to go and a little nudge from the new starter kick it over the edge. Or rather, you would never know if it were like that. So it wouldn't prove much.