First Community Bake of the New Year. This month seems less like 'Dry January' and more like 'Rye January'. So it seems very fitting to make rye the centrepiece (sorry! centerpiece) for this collective bake.
There has been much discussion about the "rules" for this community bake but I wish to make it simple so it's accessible and all inclusive. The one rule is that rye must make up at least 50% of the flour/grain in the dough. Other then that... surprise us!
It is customary for the 'host' to start off with a bake of their own. While I have recently made a rye bread I haven't done one especially for this community bake in mind. That bake will be coming soon. And what's more I don't consider myself the host as i'm just getting this off the ground and on the way. I will do my best to step into Dan's and Alan's shoes however I won't be able to devote as much time for which I apologise (sorry! apologize) in advance. We can all play host and with a collective effort I believe it'll keep itself running.
Here is an introduction to baking with rye and I will leave you with is a really lovely rye recipe from our friends over at breadtopia. Over to you Eric...
Artisan Sourdough Rye Bread
This is my favorite rye bread recipe of all time… so far. I could have just as easily called it Swedish Rye Bread or Aroma Therapy Bread for that matter (takes the coveted baking bread smell to another level). Covers both sourdough and instant yeast versions.
Ingredients
- Water: 400 grams, 1 2/3 cups
- Sourdough Starter: 70 grams, 1/3 cup (omit if making the instant yeast version)
- Instant Yeast: 1 tsp (omit if making sourdough leavened version)
- Whole Rye Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups
- Bread Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups [my tip: use very strong bread flour]
- Molasses: 44 grams, 2 Tbs
- Fennel Seed: 8 grams, 1 Tbs
- Anise Seed: 2 grams, 1 tsp
- Caraway Seed: 3 grams, 1 tsp
- Salt: 12 grams, 1 3/4 tsp
- Zest of 1 Orange
Instructions
Sourdough Version
- In a mixing bowl, mix the starter into the water. Add the molasses, all the seeds and orange zest.
- In a separate bowl, combine the flours and salt.
- Gradually stir the dry ingredients into the wet using a dough whisk or spoon until the flour is well incorporated. Cover with plastic and let rest for 15 minutes. After about 15 minutes, mix again for a minute or two. Again let rest for 15 minutes and mix one more time as before. Now cover the bowl with plastic and let sit at room temperature for roughly 12-14 hours.
Instant Yeast Version
- The only difference is don’t use sourdough starter and instead mix the instant yeast into the dry ingredients before combining with the wet ingredients.
Both Versions
- After the long 12-14 hour proof, stretch and fold the dough and shape into boule or batard (round or oblong) shape for baking. (If you didn’t follow that, I’m afraid you’re doomed to watch the video.) Cover again with plastic and let rest 15 minutes before putting in a proofing basket for the final rise. If you don’t have a proofing basket, line a bowl with a well floured kitchen towel and put the dough in there for the final rise. The final rise should last somewhere between 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Keep the dough covered with plastic to prevent it from drying out.
- Preheat your oven to 475 F a half hour before baking.
- Score the dough with a razor or sharp serrated knife and bake until the internal temp is about 200 F.
- Let cool completely before eating.
Notes
On 12-14 hour proofing period: I typically prepare everything in the evening for baking the next morning. You can also mix everything up in the morning and refrigerate until evening then remove before bed to resume the proofing at room temperature. Alternatively, if you get started with mixing everything up early enough in the morning, the bread can also be ready to bake in the evening [you can keep an eye on the dough this way]. This is a nice option when you want fresh bread ready to eat for breakfast.
https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-rye-bread/
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Good Resources For Rye Recipes:
https://brotdoc.com/2021/09/05/landbrot-nach-alter-art/
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67054/100-whole-grain-rye-sourdough-bread
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/jeffreys-sourdough-rye-bread-recipe
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/rye-sourdough-and-smorrebrod/
http://brotgost.blogspot.com/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.ploetzblog.de/tag/roggenbrot/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15736/mini039s-favorite-rye-ratio (from our very own Mini)
Volkornbrot [A recipe from kingdombread-tampa over on YouTube. Alan first introduced this baker to us back in February 2021: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67469/polenta-levain-kingdom-bakery-tampa-fl]
American Pumpernickel An adaptation of German Pumpernickel aka Old Milwaukee Rye. No need to bake it for up to 18 hours. Not 50% rye but we'll accept it in place of German Pumpernickel and pretend it checks all the right boxes. Not everyone is happy about baking a loaf for so long and this recipe allows one to appreciate "Pumpernickel" with a bit more ease.
Yeasted Polish Rye Bread : A nice channel on YouTube. Unfortunately she doesn't post any videos anymore. However here is a yeasted Polish Rye Bread for those who don't have a sourdough starter.
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The following are links to some of our previous Community Bakes
- Lake Champlain Sourdough by Trevor Wilson
- Fifty-Fifty Whole Wheat Sourdough by Maurizio Leo
- Soughdough Baguettes by Maurizio Leo
- 1-2-3 Sourdough by Flo Makanai
- Five-Grain Levain by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Maurizio's Oat Porridge SD by Maurizio Leo
- Community Bake - Pizza
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - Yeast Water - Part 1 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - The Bread - Part 2 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Basic Open Crumb Sourdough by Kristen of FullProofBaking
- The Approachable Loaf- Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread by The Bread Lab
- Baguettes featuring Alfanso
- Deli Rye - NY Jewish Bakery/Deli style Rye breads
- Durum - Semolina Breads
- Babka
- Portuguese Style Hawaiian Sweet Bread
- Ciabatta
All bakers of any skill level is invited and encouraged to join in. The Community Bakes are not competitive events. There are no winners and losers. Everyone that actively participants is guaranteed to learn something(s) new.
Some Community Bakes get extremely large. If you find that you are getting too many notifications of new replies and would like to decrease or stop the messages SEE THIS LINK.
all flour is wholegrain rye except where noted as red and white rye and wheat. Red rye is fermented rye malt and if you don't have it, you can use crystal malt--but it is definitely not the same. White malt is diastatically active malted rye and as I note, you can use wholegrain rye instead.
Notes on Lithuanian
Levain
20g rye starter
100g water
100g rye
Mix and ferment for 10-12 hours at 84 degrees F
Scald
220g rye flour
10g caraway
23g rye malt(red)
330 g water, boiling
10g white rye or wholegrain rye.
Pour boiling water over 220g rye, 22g red malt and 10g ground caraway.
Stir like a crazy person. When it reaches 150degrees F, stir in 10g white malt.
If it is lower than 140, make sure you heat it up to 150 before adding white malt.
Over 140 degrees F is to denature sticky enzyme.
(Heat up method)Or put everything in a pan and heat up to 150 F and add white malt.
Then in either case hold at 150 degrees F for at least 2 hours. It will turn sweet and slacker, but it is very thick.
Cool scald to 90 degrees F before proceeding.
Preferment:
Measure out 550g of cooled scald and add to it 200g of Levain or use all of 220 g .
Hold at 80+ degrees F for 12 hours or 8 hours at 85 degrees F. It will get soft and swell.
Final Mix
All preferment
120g wheat flour
150g of rye flour
1 tablespoon sugar
1 tablespoon honey or sorghum syrup
8g salt
Knead final dough by hand and it should be like soft , warm clay, not very sticky. Squeeze the dough through your hands.
Form and reform until it feels right hydration that you can form it later.
If not, add flour or water so it is just right texture. I probably spend 5-10 minutes until it feels good.Keep warm at 84 degrees F for 2 hours and it doubles but not falling apart.
Holes on the surface. Then wet moulding of dough and smooth, no seams anywhere. Not even on the bottom. Keep warm for 30 minutes and when pinholes appear on the surface—8 or 10 holes-coat with paste made of 25g leftover dough and 25g water and throw in hot oven. I use 500 degrees F with convection on a pizza stone--uncovered. Bake for 10 minutes at 500 degrees F, then open oven and cool it down to 450 or so for another 40 minutes. Check for doneness and spray with water and leave in 3 minutes . Take out and coat with cooked mix of 5g starch and 150g water that you made before and cooled down. I use potato starch.
Wow! That is one a beautiful loaf. I would love to try this one but I'm having the same translation issue that Gadjowheaty is having.
See my notes above-I will amend the post to include my notes.
Thanks George! Just a few questions.
"White malt" - I simply mill standard rye malt to flour as one would use in brewing. This is what you're talking about, yes?
I'm interested in this thing about "fermented tea leaves" and think I saw RusBrot discussing it somewhere, but I'm not certain. Do you have any comments on this portion of the formula?
This is a question I've wondered but don't have an answer to, perhaps yourself, mariana, Ilya, suave or another might have a thought. In baking I often see this figure of 149-150F when wanting to convert starches to sugars by amylase enzymes found in malt. b-amylases are active from about 140-149F, optimally, and quickly denature at higher temps. These enzymes act like little "nibblers" as they break sugars away from the end of starch chains. In brewing, these amylases give you the greatest amount of simple sugars, i.e., fermentables - and therefore alcohol - as you're going to get from a given grain blend.
A-amylase works much more randomly - "chomps" like a crazy person anywhere - creating unfermentable dextrins as well as maltose, etc. Big pile of sugary and dextrinous mashup. In beer, some (like myself) like it for perceived mouthfeel and richness.
Is it the case that in baking, you get no relative benefit from some of the things a-amylase can give us, so you want as much simple sugars as you can get and therefore always go to the b-amylase range? Is this why 65C/149F is always used?
I think alpha-amylases are quite active at 65C too. From what I understand, dough benefits from both simple sugars and dextrins, so perhaps around 65 is optimal for a balanced result.
Yep, agreed, they are active at 65C. They're just much more active higher, 70C-74, and at that temp you're quickly losing b-amylase.
That's good to know dextrins aren't lost in the overall quality of the bread. Do you happen to have any source material you could suggest on any of this stuff? So perhaps a question I might have is what happens if you develop a dextrin-rich and simple sugar-poor (comparatively speaking, an extreme hypothetical) malt stage? Residual sweetness as a deliberate choice, and secondly, is there anything that would exceed a sensory threshold (i.e., in beer, by-products with a high-enough molecular weight to be perceived....hard for me to imagine such a threshold can be surpassed, given bread is such a different medium - but it would be cool to know if so)?
My "go-to" for a nice balance of both in British style ales was a bit higher than 65C, 66.5-68 C.
Since mariana replied as well, I'll defer to her authority and direct you to her :)
Thanks for the help, Ilya. George's bread looks amazing and I'm really eager to try it.
And thank you again mariana.
You are right, I have only had time to quickly look through the recent posts and not comment much the last few days - the bread looks excellent, and indeed a very typical Baltic rye. All water in the scald (and some in the starter of course), those are nice style of breads! Must be delicious.
I just realized, this and the one I most recently made were noted as "Lithuanian" ryes, which seem to share a good deal with the "Riga" and "Latvian" ryes I've come across. I would have to believe as is human nature (for fun, gather cooks from Toulouse, Castelnaudary and Carcassonne and say the other told you they make the "authentic" cassoulet. Then back away and watch the mayhem).
Are their unique aspects of each of these that mark them as "Lithuanian" or "Latvian?"
Paul, here are some answers to your questions
Type 1 flour - unbleached bread flour in type 55(0)-65(0) ash range.
White malt - diastatic rye or barley malt, milled
Fermented "tea leaves" - fermented scald. In Russian, scalded tea leaves, prepared as part of Russian tea ceremony, are called заварка (scald), the same word as "scald" in scalded portion of bread flour in the bread formula, hence the mistake in machine translation.
65C is used because it was determined experimentally as optimal temperature both for liquefying the scald (initially, it is of rather thick consistency) and starch breakdown.
It is assumed, that 65C is the initial t only, with time, by the end of the third hour, or longer, it would decline to 55C and even 45C to complete full breakdown of starches of the scald into sugars at the optimal for beta amylase temperatures.
Best wishes,
m.
Perfect, thank you mariana!
Thank you in addition for the bit of lore on the "tea" mis-translation. Don't know if I ever mentioned it but I once played Константин Станиславский,the one-time director of МХАТ, in a play called "Chekhov in Yalta." Something of the samovar figured in the piece and I've always wanted to do a true Russian service since. In Chicago there is a Russian Tea Time restaurant which by all accounts is nicely authentic. We plan to visit Chicago in the spring and hope to make a visit to the Room.
thank you mariana-
I use malted rye which is diastatically active, not barley malt. ...You could have the "tea leaves" at a higher temperature than 65C and it would give you a different flavor and you could find that better for you. In this bread what is remarkable is that 50% of the total rye is in the scald and 70% of the rye is prefermented. These two factors distinguish this Lithuanian Rye recipes from others, which have the scald much smaller or only scald the red rye. These differences translate into different flavor bread. When you make it, you'll find fruit flavors(like cherries) appear 3 days after baking and they keep changing.
Thank you George, can't wait. I have whole rye malt, that I just mill as needed into flour. This is a fantastic bread - thank you so much for the inspiration.
There are a few things to be careful of. The first is that when you make the scald add in white rye after it is around 150F-if too high, it will denature some of the enzymes. Do not be afraid to let it go more than 2 or 3 hours, I've held it to around 5 hours and let it cool down over night and you can do it ahead of time and put in fridge. You may need extra scald as you'll lose part in the pans-I assume 10% loss and I can't remember if I built in that 10% or not. The preferment does need to go that long when you taste it the next morning you'll want to grab and spoon and dig in! The fermentation goes fast in many cases the second rise is half the time of the first and the first is short. So, watch it and you'll see it swell up in front of your eyes. So , have the oven hot before you start the second rise. Good luck and have fun-it is a dough that is just full of life!!
Thanks George. The window would be 140-160 or so, but yes at the higher temps the b-amylase would be denatured quickly and you'd end up with less fermentable sugars. I like and get what mariana had to say about the b-amylase range. I actually don't do a dropping temperature but maintain the scald in the saccharification range for anywhere from 2-4 hours, even more. Just looked at the last beer I brewed, few years ago.** I see that my mashing schedule was a mashing in at 145 for an hour, ramping up over 10 minutes to 158 and holding for 20 minutes, and mashing out at 170 and holding for 15 minutes. At 158 saccharification can be complete at 20 minutes. Doesn't mean complete conversion but enough that iodine shows no starch remains. Typically I was always around an hour for whatever main temp I was using.
Good note too on being ready with the oven! I've been surprised by a couple rye bakes and ever since I have the oven on plenty early in the process.
Thanks again for all this. It's a wonderful bread, I can tell, and you baked it so beautifully.
**It was a beer commissioned by my son for his graduation party; we brewed it together. A sort of hybrid American-British strong bitter, photo below.
You are a pro with using a mash--that is for sure and what a beautiful beer! I found the hydration range for having this bread "work" , where work means not rip and the crumb is good, is narrow. And this narrow window is dependent on the flour. I think it is because the final fermentations are so abrupt, that a small error in hydration or temperature is magnified. You can go by the numbers but try to get a feel of the dough and temp. The first time I baked it, I had a rip and once I tasted this bread I started another one immediately to get the right feel for this bread. It is really is a strikingly rye bread. Have fun with this one!
These are great cautions, thank you George. I learned one thing from the German community on this style and that was to take it to the edge of overproofed, but not all the way there. Ideally, no change in volume from the brotform or whatever through to the finished bake. Or maybe I should say just enough oven spring for the dough as it's been made to handle it without bursting. To me, your bread is not only beautiful, but flawless. Do I have it correct on this proofing notion?
I believe I understand what you mean and agree and in practice, since each loaf is unique how do you determine these things? I'll tell you what I do: I watch the surface of the dough proofing.It will swell rapidly then slow down and then collapse. But the first hint that it getting ready to collapse, look for small tiny pinprick holes. When you see the first one, it is time for the oven immediately-coat and bake. There is not just one pinprick holes, there are many if there is one. 4 minutes too long and it will rip. The second rising goes very fast and is over quickly usually half the time as the first rising or less, depending on temperature control. You can't touch the dough for any poke test or mystical "feel the bubbles"so you must use your eyes.
Fantastic, great to go on. Thanks George!
Thank you!
You are welcome!
Mischbrot
900g flour
of which: 300g whole rye, 600g white unbleached all purpose
of which: 300g in poolish
630g water
of which: 300g in poolish
18g salt
1.7g yeast
of which: 0.4g in poolish
20g Brotgewürz (German bread spice)
Make bread spice: Dry roast equal weights of coriander seed, anise seed, caraway seed and fennel seed and avoid burning. Let cool and grind to a fine powder.
Make poolish: Make a solution of 250g water with 1.4g yeast. Add 70g of this solution to 100g rye and 200g wheat flours, then add 230g water and mix well. Cover with plastic and let stand at room temperature overnight.
Make dough: Combine remaining flour, salt, Brotgewürz and 1.4g yeast, mix well using a whisk. Add poolish and 330g tepid water. Mix well. Knead using 30-50 slap-folds (French folds). Form into a tight ball, place in bowl and cover with plastic wrap. Place in a warm location for 2-3 hours.
Form and proof: Place dough on dusted work surface, flatten and degas. Stretch to a flat rectangle, and bring corners to the center. Bring resulting corners to center, flip over and form a tight oval shaped loaf. Place on silicone perforated baking mat on baking sheet, and place in a warm moist area to proof for 1 hour.
Bake: Preheat oven to 480deg F with a large thermal mass such as a baking stone or heavy bottomed sautoir. Score loaf, place baking sheet on thermal mass, reduce temperature to 440deg F and bake for approximately 45 minutes. Check color at 30 minutes and continue baking until desired color is achieved.
Cool: Turn oven off, crack open door, and leave bread in the oven for 30 minutes to release moisture. Place bread on cooling rack to reach room temperature
Notes: the recipe and method are based on Tom Cat's Semolina Filone from this site, which was the first bread I learned many years ago. This recipe works with any ingredients, the proportions simply need small adjustments. It is a very robust recipe. I travel to Germany often (returned 2 weeks ago from the Aachen area) and love the German Brotkultur. The American food scene is sorely lacking in the bread department. This loaf is inspired by my experience living in and traveling to Germany.
That's a nice tall loaf. I forgot about that scoring style, which was popular in the deli rye CB. It seems to lend itself well to sandwich slices. I haven't yet had a classic rye + spice bread, and will have to look into Brotgewürz.
I've made a couple of rye breads with Brotgewürz and it lends an interesting flavor to the breads. There are several variations so you can tailor it to your liking.
Thanks alcophile and headupinclouds.
The Brotgewürz are wonderful and are sensed by both aroma and flavor when eating this bread. It's a great ingredient.
I really like what they give to a bread. Pretty excited, I ordered blue fenugreek, schabzigerklee seeds, which I expect to plant in a month, roughly. It will be nice to dry everything and see what it gives.
Recipe given by https://m.tagesspiegel.de/genuss/backen-mit-sauerteig-zwei-rezepte-von-florian-domberger/19688214.html?fbclid=IwAR3J0ZYdQC3Mq6CLyCJn1PjgWeqXREv…
with correction in the amount of starter of 16g instead of 80g.
That would look nice on the front page :)
I thank you headupinclouds!! I love to make this bread because of the flavor and it keeps for at least a week no problem and the taste gets better over time.
This is beyond beautiful. Perfection!
Thank you Marta!
Oh my god! There are no words. I love these and am really looking forward to reading what you do, have done here. Thanks so much for sharing these. Fine breads!
Paul
edit: I wasn't aware till seeing again that these are three posts, semolina and George. Congratulations guys, beautiful. George, I really love this style of bread. Looks like it goes to the top of the "to do ryes."
Thank you! The Lithuanian to me has to be one of my favorites. I did increase the rye flour by around a half cup in the Lithuanian else it will rip. For the Domberger, there is a typo that I note : instead of "80g Sauerteigkultur"use 16g so you can go for 24+ hours .Check out this video of Domberger at 3:50 to see what your full sour will look like at the end of the second stage:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYOuyTXmZk. I do not use a banneton and use Finnish molding of spinning the dough to get it smooth. If you can manage, once cool, let it sit a few days before cutting and it only gets better
I thought it was worth quoting a section on milling rye from an article GeorgeQ posted [HERE].
It may be something home millers should keep in mind.
This is really helpful. Thanks.
I found this recipe on the internet and decided I had to try: https://forgottencookery.wordpress.com/2018/09/04/frisian-rye-bread/
The structure is absolutely perfect, the taste, unfortunately, slightly underwhelming.
I used coarse rye meal (rye grains pulsed in the blender until I was happy with the texture) and substituted honey for syrup
I have liked the taste of honey in wheat breads, but I didn't like the taste of honey with 100% rye the one time I tried it.
With my recent rye bakes, I think the unrefined sugar from sugar cane juice, jaggery, goes well. Which kind of makes sense since molasses goes well with rye.
I do like the taste of honey in sour rye bread flavored with caraway seeds, but this one needs more maltiness, so to speak. Unrefined sugar sounds like a great option as well
I just remembered that I have some DME, dried malt extract, in the cupboard.
I think I'll try it next time. It's 90-something percent sugar: maltose, maltotriose, and dextrose. Non diastatic. A good sweetener with that malty flavor.
Here's an Indianapolis supplier. Has links to product details and specifications.
https://shop.greatfermentations.com/category/dry-malt-extract
Yes, non diastatic malt is a good idea. We have a nice home brew store close by, they have all kinds of malts and malt extracts
Try to get some liquid malt extract then! The bread looks great though.
Texture is exactly as it should be, compact, not sticky, slices perfectly into lovely thin slices. I will try with non diastatic malt next time.
Can't get more classic. I really like these hearty loaves.
I used Eric's recipe again because I am so new to artisan bread and new to baking with 50% rye (I am afraid of 100% yet!). For my first bake, I used IDY because I didn't have a sourdough starter. But that day, I made some with 100% whole grain rye. By day 7, the rye starter seemed very active, so I used it to make this recipe again. My first sourdough bake! I don't have any comparison. But compared to my yeast version, I thought it was maybe a tad denser, but maybe that's in my head. I used 50% Hodgson's Mill wholgrain rye and the other 50% was KA bread flour.
Image
I am just beginning to suss out all the ins and outs for proofing, shaping, slashing etc., and I have a ways to go, but that said, I was not displeased with this bread. I made 2 smaller loaves (one round, one oval) from the recipe because it's just me, and I froze one. I baked the oval loaf in my ancient rompertopf and the round one in a smallish dutch oven. I really like this bread and it doesn't spike my blood sugar, which is a very grand thing!
These look amazing, well done especially as a newer baker!
Benny
Thanks! I’m reading and watching videos, trying to learn as much as I can, but I know it’s a lot of experience and trial and error. I’m enjoying the learning!
Well done! The crumb looks great and I would say your shaping and scoring are coming along just fine. Looks like your SD culture is up and running!
Thank you so much for the feedback. I made a chocolate cake with the discard. I was worried because it is rye starter, but it turned out great! I ordered some starter from Breadtopia in case this was a fail. So likes like I’ll have 2 starters soon. :)
This bread is from Jefferey Hamelman's Bread (3rd Ed.). A straight forward bake with very nice results. It has a sour rye/nutty aroma when sliced. Here are some photos and the method is detailed in my blog post.
Whatta crumb! Looks so wholesome. Gosh, so many recipes i'd love to try. Thank you so much for all your contributions to the community bake.
I know! So many breads in this thread I’d like to try. Will never get to them all.
100% rye, no measurements
I used dried out dough (2 weeks old) as a starter
So, just rye flour, water, salt, and old dough? Was it proofed seam-side down?
Paul
Yes, scraps of old dry dough, flour, water and salt, but it was a multistage process. Very hands off. First, dough was revived with lukewarm water and sugar. This woke up the wild yeast. Then, stiff starter with rye flour, to wake up the lactic cultures. Then liquid preferment and. Finally, the dough.
It's not exactly the seam, because the dough was shaped in a loaf much like a pile of playdough, no real forming here. These pretty cracks appear by themselves when the surface is dusted with flour and left to proof under thin dry cotton towel
When done as a multistage build. Using old dough and building up to the final dough in steps seems to build a lot of flavour. Very nice looking loaf.
Thanks, Abe. It's very tasty, too.
Good lord you make beautiful bread. It's exactly this kind of mottling I'm looking for in my "Stückgare mit Schluss nach unten," but cannot get it yet - canyons and chasms with good "veining" here and there. Working on it.
And you're a terrible act to try and follow, but a humble couple - one, the party crasher, just a 2-stage levain, sort of after Calvel. The other, simple schwarzbrot from Lutz Geißler's first book.
The amount of talent here is mind-blowing. I can't believe how much comes from every possible angle of and interest in baking. Thanks for the thread once again Abe, and everyone here for such a wonderful community.
5th submisson here. Bake #86.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/70004/86th-bake-02162022-denisas-100-rye-take-6
I guess I kind of like this recipe. ;-)
This was with dried malt extract (DME) for sweetener.
I forgot to pre-soak the flour for the final dough.
This time the pan was greased with Crisco, and dusted with cornmeal. It was baked in a cold Lodge cast iron loaf pan, but placed on a pre-heated baking stone. There was a second baking stone two positions lower at the lowest rack position.
Nice crumb and I just love pumpkin seeds in bread. Just baked a wheat bread to test out my new pullman but now you've got me wanted rye.
Thank you so much for all your contributions to the community bake. Gotta try that recipe sometime.
I had high hopes for this recipe from theryebaker.com, but it didn't quite work for me. It is 82% rye with cornmeal; more detail is in this blog post.
Another entry for the Rye CB: (Sort of) Fleischmann’s Rye Batter Bread (60% rye). More details in my blog.
As is evident from the beautiful and diverse rye breads posted above, there are many superb rye bakers on this site (not to mention biologists), but in the spirit of collective learning, I recently came across some rye tips from bread.blog that I thought might be helpful to the rest of us to troubleshoot occasional failures. I'm interested in what factors can contribute to gummy rye bread beyond just under/over-proofing and under baking. The page also shares a few pH values for those of us inclined to use pH guided baking.
Source: https://bread.blog/enzymes-and-ph-matter-troubleshoot-my-loaf/
Delicious! I wrapped the finished 13” Pullman loaf in linen towels and left it 24 hrs. Like a tender rich cake. Very cool mouth feel and a lovely crisp deep toasted crust due to plenty of butter to prevent sticking. This dough was WET! It contained 2 YW levains one white and one Rye . It also contains my trinity of EVOO -honey - yogurt.
I saw it rising in a VERY uniform fashion as I did the bulk ferment in the pan. I counted the ridges on the pan sides to watch the progress. At one hour I saw one bubble break the surface! Triumph Paul said stop the room temp ferment immediately and I did. It continued to rise in the fridge with the cover on while it retarded till the next morning. Baked at 450 top on 20 min lowered to 400 for 20 min top on then 25 min top off. Couldn’t be happier. Such an easy rye . One bowl one pan stir proof retard bake. Can’t ask for more balanced flavor or a more beautiful crumb.
Make levains 35g white starter feed with 125g YW 125g T65 ( or other white flour)
35g rye starter feed with 125g YW 125g rye flour ( all rye was ground slightly coarse in Mock Mill)
ferment till fully developed. Overnight in the microwave with light on produced great growth.
Dough. I autolysed the the dough ingredients separately from the levain at room temp overnight due to the coarse grind.
627g coarse rye Mock Mill
557 filtered room temp H2O
90 g total Trinity - 30g each EVOO/honey/yogurt
18g salt
Mix everything together the next AM making sure it is all blended. Easy to do by hand. Butter your large Pullman and lid very very well. Place dough in and smooth top with a wet spatula. Leave in a warm place, I used the radiator in a sunny window. Mine took only one hour to see the " first fermentation bubble". Put lid on and place in fridge overnight. Bake in 450 preheated oven for 20 min covered. Lower to 400 and continue covered bake another 20 min. The slide cover off and say " whoa" as it will be so brown and full to the top and continue to bake 25 min. Remove from pan after about 10 min to let it loosen. Wrap in linen for 24 hrs. Slice and enjoy. c
Looks great Caroline! And I agree, sounds like such a simple method.
I have the Mock Mill too. When you say coarse, how do you set the mill? I usually tighten until the stones just touch. Do you do that and go backwards a certain number of clicks?
I always grind my flour including rye at the ticking sound. Since reading here on TFL recently that rye doesn’t benefit from fine grinding I decided to try a less aggressive grind. I backed up about 4 from the ticking. I did autolyse all night the flour and water with added trinity. I put the salt in in the morning when I added the levains. Our house is 70 at night so I thought it was safe to leave it. I don’t ever sift any of my grinds and don’t usually autolyse over an hour or so but in this instance I wanted to be sure the bread was digestible. I can’t eat any seeds or nuts so I figured the coarse bran might be a problem . to my grateful surprise it is very easy on my tummy! Hope you will try it and post back. c
The rest is whole wheat. Flax inside, poppy and hemp on top
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That's another beautiful looking loaf! Do you have a formula you could post? I'm partial to pan breads.
It's by volume, but always works.
Afternoon (or evening if it's warm):
2 cups whole rye flour, 1 tablespoon starter from fridge, enough lukewarm water to make pliable ball of dough; ferment in a warm spot; if your kitchen is very warm move to cooler place before bedtime
Morning:
The preferment should be expanded and filling spongy, smell pleasantly of active rye fermentation, should taste acidic
All preferment, 2 cups whole rye, 2 cups whole wheat, salt to taste, enough lukewarm water to make very soft dough, desired amount of preferred seeds (I don't soak them)
Sometimes I toss leftover oatmeal and add coffee if it's left from breakfast
Smooth the dough into a neat ball, let sit in a warm place until visibly expanded. Place in pan, proof until ready and bake
It makes tasty, somewhat acidic bread that slices nice and thin and stays fresh for a long time
This is over 50% rye, Danish style. So good and tasty. I took notes and posted them on my blog.
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This recipe is from Der Foodcoach blog. More details on the preparation are here in my blog.
The crumb is tight and only slightly sticky. The bread has a pronounced sour, not surprising with the sour culture and buttermilk. I liked the flavor but the sourness does limit the generality of the bread. A slice at 5 days post-bake from near an end of the loaf shows some loss of structure. Is this due to poor shaping, incorrect hydration, or incorrect proofing?
I think the crack and the more open crumb in the upper middle of the loaf is a result of crumb breaking down and just starting to fall at that point inside the loaf while baking. Looking down to the bottom crumb...it looks slightly more compact in that section just above the lower crust than further up the crumb. That the sour is quite pronounced, I'd say the fermentation could have used more yeast in the dough before the matrix started to break down. The yeast in the sourdough starter is good but a boost in yeast population might be the solution. This would get the loaf earlier into the oven as well. I also think a slight increase in hydration would help the loaf expand and maybe not scoring or keeping the crust moist by a shorter stint in the linen lined basket during the final proof. Does that make sense?
Love the color crust and crumb, the free form shape with an evenly browned chestnut crust. Is the crumb dry?
Thank you for your insights, Mini. I will try these the next bake.
The slice in the photo is 5 days post-bake. The crumb initially was moist—even a little sticky—but the 5-day old slice was from the last third of the bread that had started to dry out a little. I also found a hole in my plastic bread bag that may have contributed to the drying.
79% Stone ground whole rye. 21% High extraction Bread flour.
All of the 14% protein bread flour is pre-fermented from the Lievito Madre. I am very disappointed with the lack of oven spring. More details tomorrow if the crumb is worthy.
That loaf looks really nice for 79% rye bread. I will be interested in the crumb appearance.
Did you use any steam? Many of the rye recipes I've made have a high initial temperature (>450 °F) to favor the oven spring.
This bake was the first thirty minutes with steam at 475F. I then dropped to 425 for 30 more minutes.
Many rye recipes show minimal or now oven spring, so that's quite normal! Looks nice.
Bake #1 79% stone ground whole rye naturally leavened with stiff (Lievito Madre) starter.
More information can be found at my Blog spot
Interesting recipe, with added active malt? And non-sour lievito madre... I am wondering about the crumb - the structure doesn't look perfect, clearly gets "torn" when cut. Is it a little sticky? Does it stick to the knife? How long did you leave it before cutting?
It would have benefitted with a few more hours of rest. That being said, I switched the knife just now and was more mindful with the slicing. The bread is not sticky or gummy. I am enjoying the nonsour flavor too. That being said my disappointment is with the oven spring. I was hoping for better.
Ok, then it sounds good! And these slices look better. As I said, oven spring is often nonexistent in high rye bread... Sometimes it can even shrink in the oven. So that's normal, and if you like the taste and texture, it's a success!
I have not baked a very high percentage of rye flour in quite a long time. I forgot many of the attributes to expect.
Hello, friends.
I had so much fun yesterday with the high percentage rye bake. I decided to have some more fun today!. However, before we get to that, some final words on yesterday's bread. I just had two more thin slices my wife toasted for us. I am loving the contrast of the crunchy crisp crust and the pillowy soft crumb, amazing flavor profile too.
As for today's fun, I am going to use all my willpower not to post about this again until the very end. I want to avoid the appearance of a grand performance that ends with an anticlimactic last act.
Today I will attempt to recreate the iconic Outback steakhouse pumpernickel. Copycat formulas are available all over the world wide web for this beloved butterable bread. My bake will add some twists and turns. Please comment on any other additions or omissions you have made to this bread. Also, your thoughts and general helpful tips are always welcome. Smile. My formula is below, along with photos of the sourdough family, and job #1 converting to a rye sour starter. Enjoy!
Please stop by my Blog spot for the full description of the bake and bread.
Thank you to Abe for presiding over a very informative community bake. I submit liverwurst on rye.
Hello, friends.
Can we talk about the Anourbor/Detriot Michigan rye bread baking method known as "double baking"? While winding down from my Monday, I pulled up the World wide web (Thank you Al Gore) Ha! I kill me! Sorry, I digress. I began searching for the true sour rye (N.Y. ryes) that came with our Eastern European neighbors from the old countries. The first thing I found was that these sacred formulas, which embodied the continuity of life, the very notion that what is old can be new once again, were murdered! How could this happen? What evil could have done this! Look no further than the industrial bakers. Most notably the Levy family and their slogan "You don't have to be Jewish to love our rye bread" Okay, now I am just rambling! Double baking, anyone? Photo is strictly for attention and from my archives. Tang Zhong Jewish rye.
Search for Real Rye
How to make Jewish Rye part 1
How to make Jewish Rye part-2
For my next performance... (Just kidding Cool Cat) Yes I can humbly accept constructive criticism. I promise no more about this until it is out of the oven, maybe even sliced too!
Note: With age comes wisdom. I am no longer under the misconception that everything "N.Y." is the best. That being said, don't mess with our pizza! (I don't know I think I'm funny?)
If it's good enough for Jane & Michael Stern, then that's good enough for me. 2011 article “Bread Alone: In Search of the Best Rye Bread in America,” Jane & Michael Stern sing its praises: America’s very best deli rye? No contest. We found it in Ann Arbor, Michigan, when we noticed that the bread that Zingerman’s Deli used to construct our Diana’s Different Drummer sandwich (brisket, Russian dressing, coleslaw, and horseradish) was sensational. It comes from Zingerman’s Bakehouse, which makes loaves of rugged rye that are dense and springy, laced with the taste of hearth smoke. (Saveur, March 2011)
Fascinating proces! I baked this already twice before and wanted to try again. I had to do some time squeezing and stretching so I didn't follow (timingwise) any of these recipes. But the ingredients and all the steps are here
In English: http://theryebaker.com/latgalian-rye/
In Polish: https://przepisynadomowyserichleb.blogspot.com/2017/02/chleb-zytni-penoziarnisty-atgalski-otwa.html?m=1
Nice colour on them. Thank you for all your wonderful loaves for this community bake.
This was my second time making it. I followed the Rye Baker instructions linked above. It’s a lot of fun seeing the fermentation go through the different stages. My mother-in-law was so taken with the unusual appearance that she requested a loaf next time we visit.
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Thank you everyone for a very enjoyable community bake. Sorry I couldn't comment on each and every bake personally but that's only because of how successful it was. I'm going to ask Floyd to un-pin it from the top spot tomorrow but its always open for anyone who wishes to join in or get some ideas for a rye bake.
Thank you all!
Thanks for hosting this one Abe. There are lots of good recipes, ideas, and general information on rye baking that emerged from this chapter of the CB.
Thank you for hosting Abe! Although I didn't have time to contribute later on, there are so many other inspiring bakes. I'm sure I'll keep looking through this CB for ideas.
This was my first appearance in a CommunityBake. I learned a lot and appreciate the great wealth of knowledge presented here. c
Here's another offering for the Rye CB: traditional German Pumpernickel. The recipe is from a German bread book and conforms with the German requirements of Pumpernickel: only rye meals were used and the bake was at least 16 hours. More details can be found in my (blog).
One cautionary note: You might not want to use your favorite bread pan; my old Ecko Bakers' Secret pan corroded during the long bake!
Looks awesome! I've been going a bit crazy with German books of late - Brotdoc's Heimat book, Lutz's No. 4, Sonja Bauer's For the Love of Bread and several others (if I disappear - my wife did it), but didn't know of this book. Yippee!
Really looking forward to how it eats. It looks delicious.
Thanks! It was more sour than I expected it to be, but it mellowed over time.
The German book is a cheapie I found on Amazon. The recipes are not as complicated as the bloggers we're familiar with.
Anudder one:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/70143/88thh-bake-02232022-denisas-100-rye-take-7
A little over-fermented.
Late addition, a "Münchener Hausbrot" from Brotoc's wonderful Heimat Brote: Traditionsreiche Brote aus Dem eigenen Ofen. The blog entry differs a bit from his book, but general idea.
It's a 60:40 mixed rye. Some of the rye is KA's medium and the rest of the "Type 1150" rye is my own bolted whole rye. Type 85/T 1050 wheat flour, vorteig and sauerteig.