First Community Bake of the New Year. This month seems less like 'Dry January' and more like 'Rye January'. So it seems very fitting to make rye the centrepiece (sorry! centerpiece) for this collective bake.
There has been much discussion about the "rules" for this community bake but I wish to make it simple so it's accessible and all inclusive. The one rule is that rye must make up at least 50% of the flour/grain in the dough. Other then that... surprise us!
It is customary for the 'host' to start off with a bake of their own. While I have recently made a rye bread I haven't done one especially for this community bake in mind. That bake will be coming soon. And what's more I don't consider myself the host as i'm just getting this off the ground and on the way. I will do my best to step into Dan's and Alan's shoes however I won't be able to devote as much time for which I apologise (sorry! apologize) in advance. We can all play host and with a collective effort I believe it'll keep itself running.
Here is an introduction to baking with rye and I will leave you with is a really lovely rye recipe from our friends over at breadtopia. Over to you Eric...
Artisan Sourdough Rye Bread
This is my favorite rye bread recipe of all time… so far. I could have just as easily called it Swedish Rye Bread or Aroma Therapy Bread for that matter (takes the coveted baking bread smell to another level). Covers both sourdough and instant yeast versions.
Ingredients
- Water: 400 grams, 1 2/3 cups
- Sourdough Starter: 70 grams, 1/3 cup (omit if making the instant yeast version)
- Instant Yeast: 1 tsp (omit if making sourdough leavened version)
- Whole Rye Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups
- Bread Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups [my tip: use very strong bread flour]
- Molasses: 44 grams, 2 Tbs
- Fennel Seed: 8 grams, 1 Tbs
- Anise Seed: 2 grams, 1 tsp
- Caraway Seed: 3 grams, 1 tsp
- Salt: 12 grams, 1 3/4 tsp
- Zest of 1 Orange
Instructions
Sourdough Version
- In a mixing bowl, mix the starter into the water. Add the molasses, all the seeds and orange zest.
- In a separate bowl, combine the flours and salt.
- Gradually stir the dry ingredients into the wet using a dough whisk or spoon until the flour is well incorporated. Cover with plastic and let rest for 15 minutes. After about 15 minutes, mix again for a minute or two. Again let rest for 15 minutes and mix one more time as before. Now cover the bowl with plastic and let sit at room temperature for roughly 12-14 hours.
Instant Yeast Version
- The only difference is don’t use sourdough starter and instead mix the instant yeast into the dry ingredients before combining with the wet ingredients.
Both Versions
- After the long 12-14 hour proof, stretch and fold the dough and shape into boule or batard (round or oblong) shape for baking. (If you didn’t follow that, I’m afraid you’re doomed to watch the video.) Cover again with plastic and let rest 15 minutes before putting in a proofing basket for the final rise. If you don’t have a proofing basket, line a bowl with a well floured kitchen towel and put the dough in there for the final rise. The final rise should last somewhere between 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Keep the dough covered with plastic to prevent it from drying out.
- Preheat your oven to 475 F a half hour before baking.
- Score the dough with a razor or sharp serrated knife and bake until the internal temp is about 200 F.
- Let cool completely before eating.
Notes
On 12-14 hour proofing period: I typically prepare everything in the evening for baking the next morning. You can also mix everything up in the morning and refrigerate until evening then remove before bed to resume the proofing at room temperature. Alternatively, if you get started with mixing everything up early enough in the morning, the bread can also be ready to bake in the evening [you can keep an eye on the dough this way]. This is a nice option when you want fresh bread ready to eat for breakfast.
https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-rye-bread/
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Good Resources For Rye Recipes:
https://brotdoc.com/2021/09/05/landbrot-nach-alter-art/
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67054/100-whole-grain-rye-sourdough-bread
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/jeffreys-sourdough-rye-bread-recipe
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/rye-sourdough-and-smorrebrod/
http://brotgost.blogspot.com/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.ploetzblog.de/tag/roggenbrot/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15736/mini039s-favorite-rye-ratio (from our very own Mini)
Volkornbrot [A recipe from kingdombread-tampa over on YouTube. Alan first introduced this baker to us back in February 2021: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67469/polenta-levain-kingdom-bakery-tampa-fl]
American Pumpernickel An adaptation of German Pumpernickel aka Old Milwaukee Rye. No need to bake it for up to 18 hours. Not 50% rye but we'll accept it in place of German Pumpernickel and pretend it checks all the right boxes. Not everyone is happy about baking a loaf for so long and this recipe allows one to appreciate "Pumpernickel" with a bit more ease.
Yeasted Polish Rye Bread : A nice channel on YouTube. Unfortunately she doesn't post any videos anymore. However here is a yeasted Polish Rye Bread for those who don't have a sourdough starter.
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The following are links to some of our previous Community Bakes
- Lake Champlain Sourdough by Trevor Wilson
- Fifty-Fifty Whole Wheat Sourdough by Maurizio Leo
- Soughdough Baguettes by Maurizio Leo
- 1-2-3 Sourdough by Flo Makanai
- Five-Grain Levain by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Maurizio's Oat Porridge SD by Maurizio Leo
- Community Bake - Pizza
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - Yeast Water - Part 1 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - The Bread - Part 2 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Basic Open Crumb Sourdough by Kristen of FullProofBaking
- The Approachable Loaf- Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread by The Bread Lab
- Baguettes featuring Alfanso
- Deli Rye - NY Jewish Bakery/Deli style Rye breads
- Durum - Semolina Breads
- Babka
- Portuguese Style Hawaiian Sweet Bread
- Ciabatta
All bakers of any skill level is invited and encouraged to join in. The Community Bakes are not competitive events. There are no winners and losers. Everyone that actively participants is guaranteed to learn something(s) new.
Some Community Bakes get extremely large. If you find that you are getting too many notifications of new replies and would like to decrease or stop the messages SEE THIS LINK.
Knew you'd come through with just the right advice!
Hmmmm... This is for a 90% rye loaf pan bread. Maybe pumpkin seeds. Or even soaked rye berries, which are leftover from inside this bread. Was originally thinking of no seeds on top. So many decisions!
Lithuanian Rye - Stanley Ginsberg. Just out of the oven, cooiing now.** Can't recall who recently did this or even if it was from the site, sorry guys. But Never made it before and now I'm pretty inspired to try Borodinsky again (my first was an epic fail). Will try Rus Brot's 1940 version.
** Mini, sorry, a bit fried having had only a couple hours sleep last night, but it's unclear what you'd recommend for a rye from this point (hot, right out of the oven) forward. I understand this is a very different bread (and crust) like the moonscapes above - this one had a potato starch glaze painted on the last 5 minutes of the bake - but may I ask your process from now until slicing (and beyond)? Apologies again if you've covered it, and obviously feel free to refer me to the post or posts. Thanks.
Crumb:
Love this bread. There is a delicious backdrop of malty sweetness that cries out for salt: cured or cold-smoked salmon. Can't wait to work on Riga and Borodinsky breads now.
> Will try Rus Brot's 1940 version
Is there a recipe for this online? I know people like his recipes. I spent some time searching and didn't find it.
Rus Brot's 1940 Borodinsky
That is looking fine, well done!
I'd just leave it to cool on a wire rack. You can wrap in a towel if you want. The starch glaze will soften the crust a little anyway, so it should be fine. It'll improve with time as usual.
Try the Borodinsky, yes!
Thanks Ilya. That means a good deal coming from you.
Looks nice! Look forward to the crumb shot. That's a beautiful crumb.
How long was your proof? When I made mine, I proofed for 2 hours and had 1.5× rise in my aliquot jar, but my crumb was much tighter than yours.
I made this recipe a couple of weeks ago and it is one of the most flavorful rye breads I've eaten. I hope you enjoy it.as much as I did.
Ha! It was you I got the inspiration from then. Thanks alcophile!
Wow look at that crust, well done Paul. Can’t wait to hear what you think of the flavour.
Edited after crumb posted.
Beautiful fermentation on that loaf Paul!
Benny
You inspired me to try the same recipe! Baked last night and mailed the loaf to my parents this morning.
Image
Just a note I actually contacted Monica Drax, the owner of the Drax Mill out of Rechtmering, Bavaria, Germany. About 45 minutes east of Munich and the place looks beautiful. Brotdoc and another whose blog I can't recall both spoke very highly of her and her mill. They carry the Type 2500. If she writes back I'll share what she had to say.
Sesame raisin walnut 65rye/35spelt 100% whole-grain loaf
Details of this bake can be found in my blog post.
yet the nut meats stay light colored in contrast. Sesame creates a white crust. Striking! :)
Ok, screwed up this post. The crumb shot above is several days later in natural light. Notice the crust definition fading into the crumb. The crumb did darken a little bit. It's almost gone and getting better every day. We will be fighting over that last slice for sure.
Oh my that is incredible crumb. How did it taste?
Dangerous to leave it sitting out as we become too lazy to cook, rather have open faced sandwiches! The cake form I baked the bread in, came wih a carry case so the loaf sits in there and too easy to get to.
I didn't put the whole dose of orange peel to flour in the dough. Hubby said if I wouldn't have told him about the peel, he wouldn't have noticed it. So it's subtle and not overpowering, which means a good blend. One can also use a spice blend of mostly coriander with caraway and fennel/anis in smaller amounts.
Indeed that is Mini. "Saftig" doesn't seem to begin to cover it.
beautiful, Mini.
Coffe & cream color - still way lighter than mine. Different ryes, I guess.
The important thing is: you enjoyed it.
Rob
beautiful, Mini.
Coffe & cream color - still way lighter than mine. Different ryes, I guess.
The important thing is: you enjoyed it.
Rob
That is one special bread, nice to see it in natural light.
Your post has got me thinking about how well the boiling hot water method will work with wheat flour? Have you given it any thought, maybe with difficult wholewheat?
It would destroy a lot of gluten in the flour, so with wheat you might want to be careful about that.
I've seen a lot of old, wheat recipes with scalds.
I am not saying it's impossible, there are definitely scalded wheat recipes! But I wouldn't just pour boiling water over all of the flour. I would take a portion out and scald it thoroughly. Like we normally do for rye too.
I've been interested in trying Mini's Dark Rye & Chia loaf, since we came into possession of more chia seeds than we can otherwise use. This recipe seems to yield pretty outrageous oven spring for rye [LINK]. I'm curious how much the chia alters the final proof? My rye experience is limited and I've never baked with chia. I've made one Vollkornbrot recipe that calls for a 30% rise, and the Rugbrod (above) in this CB, which looks for a few pinholes on top. I'm curious if the chia gel traps more CO2 in a way that would suggest a different proofing strategy (a bigger rise in the final proof, for example). Do we still see pinholes?
at that posting may have com from 60g extra water added to the dough as a replacement for altus. I don't understand how water replaces altus but the additional water might be why it rose so high. Worth a try.
I attempted Mini's Dark Rye & Chia recipe at 104% hydration. Unfortunately I did not do it justice, and will have to get the hang of high hydration rye and chia. This is probably my biggest flop ever. I went with the recommendation of chestnuts and used sunflower seeds to line the pan. This was with freshly milled rye, and I swapped in 100 g of sprouted rye berries I had made early, which may have been a mistake. The toasted and crushed coriander, fennel and caraway filled the apartment with a nice smell. The aliquot jar indicated a proof of nearly 1.5x by the time I decided to bake, which seemed high, but the pH was only 4.76 and I didn't see the same pinholes I noticed in the previous straight rye Rugbrod bake. After the initial mix, I discovered the chestnuts I planned to use had dried out and I ran to the store to buy some pre-roasted chestnuts. I arrived before the aliquot jar showed any signs of life and folded the precooked chetnuts in. Perhaps that was too late. I kept a careful eye on the temperature using my oven probes and checked for a loaf temperature of 205 F and ended up baking for an additional 10 minutes. After removing the loaf from the oven I could tell it was sagging under its own weight. I did my best to remove it in one piece and wrap it to cool overnight. When I unwrapped it the loaf in the morning it fell apart in my hands. I'm really not sure how I missed the mark by so much on this one.
That’s such a shame it didn’t turn out David, it certainly looked good to that point. I wonder what went well, hard to imagine that folding in the chestnuts a bit late was the cause. I’ve never watched the pH of a 100% rye bake so have no idea what kind of pH change one would want to achieve. Hopefully Mini will comment.
Benny
Thanks Benny. I've been puzzled about this one too. Clearly others have had smashing success following the same process. No doubt the fault lies in the baker on this one, and I must be missing something. It seems woefully underbaked (I could run my finger through the inside). Maybe something went awry with the rye sour build, although it was used fairly close to peak (slightly after). I did check the internal temperature with a baking thermometer, which registered 205 F. I monitored time and oven temperature carefully. The probes were on the top of the baking stone and the Pullman pan was on an oven rack 1 inch above it. I have had concerns that there may not be enough space around my stone, and the top probe vs stone probe temperatures can vary quite a bit. I was careful about measuring weight and the mixed dough consistency felt very reasonable and quite shapeable (surprisingly so), which seems to suggest there wasn't a measuring error (at least not a significant one). I usually take photos of the scale as a record, but had 3 bakes in process so I didn't do it in this case. I removed the aluminum foil top (broke the seal) I made, and noticed steam escape, but kept it loosely on top, as the gas oven is prone to drying. Maybe the seal trapped too much steam (compared to a lid) or keeping it resting on top didn't allow enough moisture to escape? I've reviewed the high res photo of the proofed loaf and see about 3 pinholes (fewer than expected for the rise). Maybe it wasn't proofed enough, and the chia + rye combination trapped more CO2 than expected and resulted in a "false proof". For comparison, the Rugbrod I baked measured a pH of 4.3 at the time of the bake (after observing 1/2 dozen pinholes). Since this one measured 4.76, I'm leaning towards this theory. The instructions do say "No kneading ever". I'm curious if that means "no kneading [necessary] ever" or "no kneading ever [or else you will destroy the rye + chia dough]". My late stage inclusion may have introduced too much kneading, although that seems less likely. I'll have to repeat this again with a smaller test dough.
It was a bad rye weekend, as it seems I over-roasted my week long rye sprout project while attempting to make solod for the Borodinsky bake. I was waiting for the rich golden color while roasting at 325F, but the berries never developed the golden color I expected (at least not on the bran) and it seems I roasted too long. I eventually tried grinding them and they taste like burnt marshmallows. The Borodinsky bake is set back a week or so, unless I can find some solod sooner.
David, do you usually measure the pH after mix? I haven’t baked with chia but as you know with whole grains the pH after mix is higher than with white flour. I wonder if the chia affected the starting pH at all. Do you have a sense of the needed delta in pH for a rye dough to be fully fermented?
I do sometimes, but I did not in this case. I might have done so had there been less going on. I can check when I try this again, and your idea that chia may alter this significantly is a good point. I usually bake the same loaf repeatedly with a bag of the same grain, and have been using pH primarily to judge maturity of both the starter/chef/levain (there is no difference in my current maintenance of my culture) and the final proof. I also keep an aliquot jar. I haven't experimented with any more universal pH baking heuristics yet, but I am very curious about your experience. Would it make sense to look at fixed deltas in linear scale? pH derivatives? I have made some attempts to visualize pH continuously to look for patterns that might explain the outcome, but my meter doesn't have a digital interface, so it is extremely tedious. I believe yours can log continuously, right? I'll measure more next time.
I’ve been going on the premise that the degree of fermentation can be measured by the fall in pH from the time of end of mix/addition of inclusions to the end of bulk and time of baking. So for what I’ve lately been baking I watch for a fall in pH of about 1.0 and end bulk at that time. Then I aim to bake at another 0.3 drop in pH. This has worked very well for my 100% whole grain breads and I haven’t seen any under or over fermentation with this. I have done a few bakes with smaller amounts of whole grain and then this pH guidance still worked well. Now I do think if one has a very strong dough with exceptionally high gluten then one could go for a greater drop in pH since that dough would tolerate more proteolytic activity than a dough with less gluten.
My Hanna Bread and Dough meter doesn’t do continuous measurements, but it is easy to clean the dough off and relatively quick to measure.
I have definitely noticed that when I have added scalds and such that the pH can be significantly higher not surprisingly, so I always start my pH point of reference after adding those to the dough and then target the pH 1.0 drop.
I am guessing you cannot rely on the aliquot jar if it no longer has the same state as the main dough (which was changed when the chestnuts were added in). Do you need to reset that jar if you mess with the main dough? Esp with rye relying on a pretty loosely held rise?
The aliquot hadn't budged by the time I returned with the pre-roasted chestnuts. I'm assuming handling doesn't have much of a lasting impact on the dough unless growth is detectable, but I don't know that for sure. I will try again and see what I can find.
In the past, I have tried to coordinate degassing equally for the dough and the aliquot (a reset), but I didn't have confidence in my ability to do it accurately. Now I rely more on the aliquot as a repeatable indication of degree of fermentation rather than the volume of the dough, which is certainly easier. It takes a lot of manipulation to re-seat the aliquot, remove bubbles, and level it in the jar after handling it. Maybe one could knock it down in the jar without removing it?
By the way, did your solod turn a detectable reddish brown on the outer bran? I fan dried the sprouted rye a bit before roasting it open in a baking sheet. The outer bran never got any color, but the inside appears to have burned. I've never tasted solod before but I'm guessing it should be sweet and malty. Perhaps roasting while still damp or even covering it to protect it from the dry gas oven is needed to trigger an outer color change.
One of the outcomes of manipulating dough is moving yeasts and new food in the dough closer together. Presumabky it also affects the development of pentosan gelling in the dough, So just manipulating one dough and not the other might make a difference.
Yes my solod turned reddish but that was ater the fermentation and sacchirification phases
You can see the colours in the blog where I made it
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69302/borodinsky-homemade-solod-sprouted-rye-fresh-milled
The roasting phases post drying trigger Maillaird reactions and browning. My understanding is the more you roast, the more you get roast flavours vs the fermentation and rye. Same as coffee where light roasts offer more acidic flavours from a varietal and dark roasts offer more sweet and then ash
I almost always do an aliquot, it is what I'm used to, even though lately I find that judging by eye (and the poke) do it just fine.
The point of the ramble is that this weekend I had the distinct displeasure of trying to get high rye dough into a tiny jar. Just awful poking the mud down with a chopstick. Certainly wouldn't want to handle that more than I need to.
-Jon
When using an aliquot jar I do not reset the aliquot jar, I allow it to continue to rise even if I manipulate the dough. Because I do this the same way with every dough there is consistency from bake to bake of the same bread. I keep in mind that the percent rise estimated by the aliquot jar is greater than the percent rise in the actual dough. So if I’m following a recipe that states divide when the dough has risen 40% that the aliquot rise will have to be greater than 40%.
to me: 100g sprouted rye berries, and baking an inch above the baking stone.
There is another case of a loaf falling apart at the end of that 104% rye posting. Would be interesting to compare both bakes in detail. Is there anything left to get a crumb shot? From the looks of the loaf, I'd be tempted to roll the insides into small balls, maybe add a little sugar or cream cheese (rum or whiskey) and finish off rolling in a tasty dark cocoa powder to coat.
Rye berries sprouted uncooked? Might have thrown a lot of enzymes to attack the matrix. ? If so,This would definitely shorten any bulk rise. Boil or roast would be my suggestion as I haven't yet thrown in fresh sprouts.
When I bake in a shiny pan, and I would classify this as a shiny pan (wait a few more years of use w/o washing it on the outside) I try to get the pan as close to the heat as I can. In my oven it means the botton rack (I've no stone) for at least the first 15 minutes and moving up later a notch or turning the oven down to 200°C. There is something to be said about starting off hot and then turning down the heat as rye bakes progress. Mybe bake on the stone would help. The sunflower seeds roasted a little on the bottom but I bet it was near the end of the bake. Would be interesting to see a crumb shot of that bottom crust and see how it "imprinted "the bake. Did you dock the loaf?
Mini
The rye sprouts (just at chit stage) were dried but uncooked. It does seem that they could be the culprit. I will skip them next time. That's a great post. I love that fact that you sourced chia fresh from the market. It is a nice example of baking with local ingredients. I haven't investigated it, but I'm curious now to look into traditional baking practices that exploit the chia gel.
I looked through the post and the one failure I spotted seemed less catastrophic. They didn't provide many details on their bake.
Unfortunately, the loaf is no longer with us. I thought about saving it for altus, but didn't want to risk bringing it into a new bake. My previous attempts to repurpose baking failures haven't been very satisfying, but your idea is a good one.
I can try baking on the stone next time. After reading this article, I will now either bake on the stone or remove it. The thermal mass seems to do less than I expected (unless baking on the stone).
I did dock the loaf. I almost forgot, and didn't have toothpicks on hand, so I used my kitchen thermometer probe.
Thanks for your input. I will try again.
Just to settle the R 2500 idea - I'm part of a German FB page run by Brotdoc and a member there pointed out to me that indeed R 2500 is basically a rye equivalent to wheat's first clear. It's in Ginsberg's book, pg. 29..."like first clear wheat flour, the leavings of milled rye after the lighter grades have been sifted out...."
Might be fun to do some bolting, even though it's imperfect, and make an ersatz "2500."
Not to beat a dead horse but I think it's pretty cool Monica Drax herself responded to my query. Nice lady, and a quality mill. Would love to visit them,
My German isn't that good so I'm afraid it's Google on this one:
That is serious selectivity!!!
wraps around the entire endosperm. That is amazing selectivity! So maybe white rye is missing much of this layer and that could explain the lighter crumb color I get with 960 rye flour. I might go find me some of this 2500 stuff to mix in for more shifting to "the dark side." Moo ha ha ha haaaa!
Oh that's interesting on the white rye, Mini. Looking forward to what comes up for you with the 2500. And just a reminder it was you who welcomed me to the "dark side" in the first place.....!
like our ryes. My son gave me a t-shirt many many years ago.
It said. Welcome to the dark side....we have cookies!
Oh, saw a nice rye in the supermarket...it had 15% fibre and only 8% protein vollkorn rye fine ground. The expiration date...Feb 2022. Crap. Only one on the shelf. Didn't bring it home as "I've been there" with expired dates. Couldn't find anything higher. Maybe a reform house trip might do it. (15 minute drive)
My second entry (third overall 100% rye bake), based on Denisa's formula. This time with coarsely ground home-milled rye, 1 tbsp of ground/toasted bread spice, some whole sesame seeds, whole sunflower seeds, whole flaxseeds, 1/2 tsp whole caraway, and 1/2 tsp whole fennel as soaked add-ins. Topped with raw pumpkin seeds.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69816/83rd-bake-01282022-denisas-100-rye-take-3
I had some senior moments and forgot the salt and sweetener. But with some melted salted butter, the bread is wunderbar.
Rye rolls. 55% rye flour, 45% wheat flour. So cute.
I don’t think I’ve seen rye rolls before, they look great Abel.
Benny
My bad. I got the concept now - previously posted on my blog
Here's my response to the Community Bake - Rye Bread, the Franconia Crusty Boule / Frankisches Krustenbrot (Germany) from The Rye Baker by Stanley Ginsberg
I am quite pleased with this bake. I really enjoy the added bread spice called Brotgewürz however the next time I make this bread I'll increase the amount. I can see how this bread goes with savory foods and dark beers and veined cheeses.
Very good looking rye loaves Tony. I love how the crust opened up so organically.
Benny
Thanks Benny...
Agree with Benny - gorgeous, man. My wife is going up to see her mom and dad on Friday - mom's Estonian and dad is, well, a morphed Estonian and both are mad for rye. I have about a dozen bookmarks in Stanley's book and this is one of them, but I've never made it. You've bumped any other plans and this one is next. Starting tomorrow, perfect for Friday morning breakfast for them.
Thanks much!
Thanks Gadjowheaty - I would increase the bread spices a little - but then again I enjoy stronger flavors.
How about a slice of Rye Gingerbread (LINK) for dessert? Slightly bending the rules, but it is a "bread" of sorts. 100% KA medium rye with a nice clove kick, which I like (I used to chew Adams Clove Gum as a kid).
There you go, very nice!
Adams Clove - oh man, brings back memories. My dad was a pilot and the gum of choice to clear our ears in the old Cessnas was....
Oh yummy, nice gingerbread! I’ve never seen a rye gingerbread.
Thanks, Benny. The rye really compliments the spiciness of the cake. Or is it the other way around?
Kümmel-Bier Brot (Caraway Beer Bread) from The Rye Baker book. This bread is for lovers of caraway seed (sorry Benny!); it has a whopping 2% caraway seed. The bread is 50% rye and 50% first clear or high-gluten flour, barley malt syrup, and beer for half the liquid. The bread is great for sandwiches. For those not as fond of caraway as I am, it could still be a good all-around rye sandwich bread if the caraway was reduced or omitted. More details on the prep here.
James Morton's "Purely Rye Sourdough" recipe left me full of self doubt. His approach is unconventional, as he puts it, "The way I get a brilliant pure rye bread is to follow every traditional process of conventional breadmaking, but bake it just like you might a gluten-free loaf."
So the recipe has some oddities to it, some more strange than others, "you need to knead this bread"(!), long fermentation time - 6 hours bulk plus 4-6 hours proof, score(!) the top of the loaf, and "bash" out of the tin halfway through the short bake.
I used Pstros' variant for the ingredients, so half the levain was bread flour making this a 90% rye, and also used 100g of cooked rye kernels both inside the bread and as a topping. I humoured the recipe and mixed for 15 minutes with the paddle. Maybe, just maybe, the strands from the side of the bowl to the dough clinging to the paddle were just a little bit more coherent at the end of that. I didn't want to try shaping fizzy mud, so gave it a much shorter bulk of 2 hours, but then left it in the pan quite a long time as I was away. Think it went too far for what I would have liked - aliquot at 200% - 9 hours from adding levain (3X increase) and the top was pinholed. Instead of scoring I brushed on whey and used that to attach the sunflower seeds and cooked rye (thanks Mini!).
And because I'm an idiot who follows instructions, and my pan wasn't non-stick, I ended up having to try twice - the "bash the bread out after 20 minutes" was a disaster, even though the pan was oiled it stuck at the base as that wasn't properly cooked 20 min in, and my first loaf ended up as a collection of chunks. So, I took the hit (and froze some for altus) and actually tried all over again the next day, this time with butter to grease a new non stick pan and I baked on top of the baking steel for 25 minutes before seeing if it would come gently out of the pan, which it did. I made sure this was properly baked, so this one had a total of 60 minutes at 200°C (392°F) of which 20 minutes had foil tenting. Slight darkening on top, but that's okay with me.
Left it all properly wrapped and only sliced and tasted at 36 hours - turned out to taste nicer than I thought it would. Complicated flavours, a slight tang but not an over-powering sourness, liked the cooked rye kernels, and no gumminess to the crumb. Going to enjoy eating the rest, which leaves me confused what to think of this recipe!
Sounds like you’re happy you had a second go at this recipe Jon. In the end you baked up a nice looking loaf despite the unusual processes.
Benny
Here is my second submission: my second attempt at Hamelman’s Horst Bandel Black Pumpernickel. I’m reasonably happy with this one, although there’s room for improvement.
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I used my first attempt in the old bread soaker, which may have made the bread slightly too full of rye kernels. As with the first attempt, I found the amount of water in the recipe too much (would have turned the dough into pancake batter) and had to hold some of it back.
When perusing old threads on this bread, I noticed a wide range of baking techniques. In an attempt to achieve a dark color, I went for a long bake: 1 hour at 350, 2.5-3 hours at 275, 9-10 hours at 220. My oven does not retain heat well, so turning it off and leaving it as Hamelman recommends would not have accomplished much. Despite the long bake, the crust was not hard or tough at all.
Note: after wrapping my Pullman pan in a couple layers of foil, I put the baking stone on top of it for the duration of the bake. Maybe that’s a bad idea, but the stone and pan seem fine, and the bread stayed moist.
60% rye/40% spelt
2 stage ferment with a stale bread scald
recipe: https://www-ploetzblog-de.translate.goog/2021/05/29/bergkruste-sauerteigbrot-mit-roggen-und-dinkel/
This is a really interesting formula. The dough was super tangy (not surprising given that my schedule extended the preferment to 18 hours) but the final loaf was surprisingly mild, with the spelt nutty sweetness overcoming the spicy rye. It'll make a great feast with the squash soup I made last night.
Rob
That does look interesting (and tasty!). I'll have to add this one to my list.
Did you use the bolted spelt flour for the final dough? I only have whole spelt flour, but I suppose it's a small quantity and shouldn't make much difference.
How do you interpret the baking instructions? I'm always a bit confused by the German baking instructions. Is steam applied during the entire bake? How long is the oven maintained at the higher temperature?
I used whole rye and whole spelt -- because that's what I have. This probably made the dough a little more stiff.
I bootlegged the temperatures and steam. Going against my pyromaniac instincts, I rejected 280C/535F as the starting temperature. Since my whole grain dough was less slack, I figured I didn't need to set it aflame in the oven.
I started at 250C/485F for 20 minutes -- with steam for the first 15. Then I lowered it to 232C/450F for 30 minutes. And I finished up at 210C/410F for ten minutes.
One other variation: I don't know why, but I did the 2-stage preferment without salt (no doubt, this upped the sourness substantially.) And the total salt I added to the final dough -- mixed in with the hot water and the cooled scald -- was 7 grams. This was just personal preference: I find most bread formulas are too salty.
I was blown away that, though the raw dough was incredibly acidic, the final bread was quite mellow. With each bite, I feel like I'm in the mountains.
Delicious bread and lovely hands off procedure
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Very even crumb and unique technique. Not too airy but still looks like a soft crumb. Making this over a few days would sure bring out some wonderful flavours. Very nice indeed and welcome to the Community Bake.
It's a very nice, simple tasting everyday rye bread. It has a pronounced acidity with some lemony notes to it 😋
Do tell more!
Yes, at least that's how my palate perceives that. Maybe because of that dried starter on the sides of my bread bowl? I've been using this bowl for 3 years now, maybe some nice yeast and lactic bacteria sit there? You can read about the procedure in my blog post. It's based on traditional recipe from Belarus
Repeated the previous bake with small modifications.
Stupidly, when mixing the preferment, I realized I only had half the amount of starter necessary for the recipe, so I just used what I had and added extra flour and water to get the total amount. The starter was more active than the first time (spent less time in the fridge) and I gave it an extra hour compared to last time, so the resulting preferment seemed very similar in the end.
I toasted 75 g of sunflower seeds and added them to the main dough, together with 4 g of bread spice (a little on the low side, I didn't want to overpower the flavour of the bread itself). I also thought the seeds would soak up a bit of water, so added extra 25 g water, but it actually was a mistake: the dough was way more soft than the first time, and although I mixed in a little more flour after the 30 min "bulk" ferment, it was still too liquidy. In addition (and probably due to that reason) it stuck a little during proofing, and removing the towel damaged the surface in a few spots, which then corresponded to the largest cracks on the loaf - which is also quite flat to due overhydration.
This time I didn't sprinkle the bread with water before taking it out, but I sprinked water on the walls of the oven. I don't know whether it made any difference for the hardness of the crust, but it did preserve the nice white-black contrast on the surface. Sliced it after two days.
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It's really tasty, with extra nuttiness from the seeds (could have used more!), and a little something from the spices too. Overall the flavour is very similar to the previous one, perhaps a little more moist (due to higher hydration). Very nice hearty bread, despite a somewhat low profile.
Really brings out flavour and the oil. Very nice crumb and crust, Ilya. Looks delicious.
Thank you Abe - indeed, toasted sunflower seeds are delicious, and I think work very well with rye bread.
Inspired by Ilya and cfraenkel's bakes, I also had a try at the Plötzblog recipe with "versäuertem Schrot" (https://www.ploetzblog.de/2020/09/12/roggenbrot-mit-versaeuertem-schrot/).
Everything was progressing nicely, until mixing the final dough. I had left a measuring cup of boiled water to cool to 70C, but then forgot that I hadn't weighed it out precisely, and just poured the whole thing into the bowl. I'd estimate I boosted the hydration by around 20% - on a recipe with a starting point of 85%! To salvage things I proofed and baked in a loaf pan, reducing the proof time by 30 minutes and taking it out of the pan a bit before the end of the bake to crisp the crust.
In the end it turned out surprisingly good, with a very moist and relatively open crumb thanks to all the extra water, contrasting nicely with a crisp but not at all tough crust. There are a couple small voids in the very center of the loaf so I think it was really on the brink of internal collapse during bake ... but managed to just hold together.
Nice! That looks really good. Maybe I should have baked my recent also somewhat overhydrated loaf in a pan! But high hydration rye in a pan makes for a very pleasant crumb, a moist and relatively open (but obviously less crust, which has lots of flavour! - tradeoff).
How do you like the taste?
...period!
Looks perfect to me. Rose well, very uniform and nice looking crumb structure. Cuts nicely. Perfection.
Bon Appetit, Mike.
That looks like it's going to be delicious. I'd be really happy to bake that, beautiful.
Nice save! I think I like the look of that even better than the original, but I'm partial to panned breads.
If you were to repeat it, would you increase the hydration to only 95–100%? Thanks.
I think you upgraded the recipe! Fantastic save!
Thanks all!
Ilya, the taste is very good - though there are a few "schrot" kernels that remained perhaps a little too crunchy.
Alcophile, I would up the hydration 10% max and see how it goes. Deeper into the loaf were a few more defects (slight "flying roof" in a couple spots) so again I think this was really pushed to the brink! (I also like the look of Pullman pans for rye breads - since the oven spring is limited, the taller format gives a nice proportion).
Sorry, I have been quiet for a while. That doesn't mean I haven't been following all your wonderful bakes. This Community Bake has taken me by surprise and has grown so much in this past week it's very difficult to comment on every bake. I have however followed every single one. Such wonderful recipes and ideas, more then I could have dreamed of, in just over a week too. Welcome back to regular contributors to the Community Bake and lovely to see some new 'faces' too.
On my way home from work I decided to pop into my local Polish store and buy some more wholegrain rye flour. Had to spend a certain amount on my card and now I have more then I know what to do with. I suppose I could have bought something else but was in a hurry and to make up for the minimum spend just grabbed another packet off the shelf. Never mind... with all the bakes here i won't be running out of ideas.
https://melvit.pl/en/wholemeal-rye-flour-1-kg/
Thank you, Abe, for organizing the CB.
I'm also thrilled to see so many different recipes that showcase rye. It will take me months to try them all!
I'm glad everyone is enjoying themselves. Your rye gingerbread looks so inviting! Reminds me of Icelandic Rye. While it doesn't have any ginger in it it's certainly leaning towards a rye cake with caramel notes.
Thank you for creating the CB, it's a pleasure to have you as the host, and hope you don't feel any pressure to comment one very bake. You are a busy person, and I think we all know you read through everything even if you don't comment :)
Enjoy the Polish flour, looking forward to seeing your bakes!
I did plan on trying to comment on all the bakes but i'm so happy I can't because the CM is so popular. That's what I like to see. Of course I pop in everyday and marvel at all the bakes.
Not sure what to make next. I'm spoiled for choice.
... so little time.
Thanks Abe, for coordinating & advising & marveling.
Much appreciated.
Rob
For your bake and recipe, Rob.
Something i've saved to try sometime.
Interesting that the bag of your Polish flour has a 'thermomix' logo on it - are you meant to do anything with a home appliance?
Also, out of curiosity did that shop also stock light/medium rye flour?
-Jon
It is a recipe for thermomix which I think is a home appliance which can do many things one of which is need dough (I would think). Here is the recipe:
Are you up for some google translate?
Everything is in Polish in that store but what I can make out is they sell wholemeal and white rye.
Prepare in Thermomix Wholemeal rye bread Method of preparation: Pour 250 g of buttermilk and 150 g of water into Thermomix, add 40 g of fresh yeast and a teaspoon of sugar, heat for 1 min / 37 ° C / Speed 2. Add 500 g of Melvit wholemeal rye flour, 1.5 teaspoons of salt, a tablespoon of oil, knead the dough with a spatula, time 2 minutes /. Put the dough into another vessel, leave it to rise for about 40 minutes, then put it into a greased baking tin (about 24x12x7 cm). Bake in a preheated oven at 200 ° C for 50-60 minutes. After removing from the oven, leave the bread in the form for about 10 minutes.
*Google Translate from photo
* "turn 2" was also translated as "speed 2"
Thank you, David. That's nifty. Google can translate from a photo!?
Now we have another recipe. More the merrier.
P.s. if anyone wishes to follow this recipe that would be 1.5 teaspoons of salt.
Yes, google translate app on the phone (or the translate function of google lens) can translate from a photo - or even from the camera in real time!
And try it out for myself. Thank you Ilya.
Sorry guys, nothing new to show. I'm with Abe. I wish we had a "madly blown away" emoticon as I'd be painting this thread with them. Amazed.
So this isn't on a current bake. My wife is driving up to see her parents, will be there for dinner Friday. Two breads - both from Lutz - Black Hamster and Rauriser Vollkornbrot. My in laws are in their 80's so I really have to watch the petrified lava effect on the Rauriser, but with Mini's and others' help, I think I have a handle on it. So my question is, when would you think the optimal "aging" would be for these two breads? Is there a consensus on full-rye recipes in general? I know it's subjective but, um, truth be told...
I can't stand not baking daily rye. Serious. Right now it's growing out our ears, though, and this bread for my FIL/MIL is a perfect reason to bake. Given Friday dinner first breaking of the breads, would you bake tomorrow, or Thursday?
Black Hamster Wholemeal Bread. Never heard of that before. Looks like a relative of the Danish Rye. Generally I find 2-3 days and it's really cutting nicely with the rye itself catching up with the flavours of the add-ins.
I agree, I think 2 days is optimal, after that I don't notice much change in flavour or crumb structure.
Looks superb - presumably if it is a hamster bread you must stuff your cheeks with it.
My entry into the Rye CB. Details are in my blog.
Perfect! The mash must be bringing out the reddish color?
Yes, I think so. Maybe more from the barley than the rye, but not sure on that. I have a picture of the finished mash in my blog that shows its color, and the reddish hues are definitely there. Could be the soft white lights in my kitchen are contributing to it too, but it does have a reddish color even in daylight. The dark color was just the surface of the mash. I should have grabbed a picture of what was underneath. It more closely resembled the final crumb.
Hi All,
I've just added to the main body of the CM a nice Yeasted Polish Rye bread recipe. I'll include it here too.
https://youtu.be/3u2m9FClWIM
This is from a nice YouTube channel called The Bread Kitchen. Unfortunately she doesn't post videos anymore but she has plenty of other recipes too. This is for anyone who doesn't have a sourdough starter. Indeed, it's also for those who do, whether you would like a yeasted recipe or wish to convert to sourdough.