First Community Bake of the New Year. This month seems less like 'Dry January' and more like 'Rye January'. So it seems very fitting to make rye the centrepiece (sorry! centerpiece) for this collective bake.
There has been much discussion about the "rules" for this community bake but I wish to make it simple so it's accessible and all inclusive. The one rule is that rye must make up at least 50% of the flour/grain in the dough. Other then that... surprise us!
It is customary for the 'host' to start off with a bake of their own. While I have recently made a rye bread I haven't done one especially for this community bake in mind. That bake will be coming soon. And what's more I don't consider myself the host as i'm just getting this off the ground and on the way. I will do my best to step into Dan's and Alan's shoes however I won't be able to devote as much time for which I apologise (sorry! apologize) in advance. We can all play host and with a collective effort I believe it'll keep itself running.
Here is an introduction to baking with rye and I will leave you with is a really lovely rye recipe from our friends over at breadtopia. Over to you Eric...
Artisan Sourdough Rye Bread
This is my favorite rye bread recipe of all time… so far. I could have just as easily called it Swedish Rye Bread or Aroma Therapy Bread for that matter (takes the coveted baking bread smell to another level). Covers both sourdough and instant yeast versions.
Ingredients
- Water: 400 grams, 1 2/3 cups
- Sourdough Starter: 70 grams, 1/3 cup (omit if making the instant yeast version)
- Instant Yeast: 1 tsp (omit if making sourdough leavened version)
- Whole Rye Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups
- Bread Flour: 245 grams, heaping 1 3/4 cups [my tip: use very strong bread flour]
- Molasses: 44 grams, 2 Tbs
- Fennel Seed: 8 grams, 1 Tbs
- Anise Seed: 2 grams, 1 tsp
- Caraway Seed: 3 grams, 1 tsp
- Salt: 12 grams, 1 3/4 tsp
- Zest of 1 Orange
Instructions
Sourdough Version
- In a mixing bowl, mix the starter into the water. Add the molasses, all the seeds and orange zest.
- In a separate bowl, combine the flours and salt.
- Gradually stir the dry ingredients into the wet using a dough whisk or spoon until the flour is well incorporated. Cover with plastic and let rest for 15 minutes. After about 15 minutes, mix again for a minute or two. Again let rest for 15 minutes and mix one more time as before. Now cover the bowl with plastic and let sit at room temperature for roughly 12-14 hours.
Instant Yeast Version
- The only difference is don’t use sourdough starter and instead mix the instant yeast into the dry ingredients before combining with the wet ingredients.
Both Versions
- After the long 12-14 hour proof, stretch and fold the dough and shape into boule or batard (round or oblong) shape for baking. (If you didn’t follow that, I’m afraid you’re doomed to watch the video.) Cover again with plastic and let rest 15 minutes before putting in a proofing basket for the final rise. If you don’t have a proofing basket, line a bowl with a well floured kitchen towel and put the dough in there for the final rise. The final rise should last somewhere between 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Keep the dough covered with plastic to prevent it from drying out.
- Preheat your oven to 475 F a half hour before baking.
- Score the dough with a razor or sharp serrated knife and bake until the internal temp is about 200 F.
- Let cool completely before eating.
Notes
On 12-14 hour proofing period: I typically prepare everything in the evening for baking the next morning. You can also mix everything up in the morning and refrigerate until evening then remove before bed to resume the proofing at room temperature. Alternatively, if you get started with mixing everything up early enough in the morning, the bread can also be ready to bake in the evening [you can keep an eye on the dough this way]. This is a nice option when you want fresh bread ready to eat for breakfast.
https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-rye-bread/
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Good Resources For Rye Recipes:
https://brotdoc.com/2021/09/05/landbrot-nach-alter-art/
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67054/100-whole-grain-rye-sourdough-bread
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/jeffreys-sourdough-rye-bread-recipe
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/rye-sourdough-and-smorrebrod/
http://brotgost.blogspot.com/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.ploetzblog.de/tag/roggenbrot/ (you can change the language to English)
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15736/mini039s-favorite-rye-ratio (from our very own Mini)
Volkornbrot [A recipe from kingdombread-tampa over on YouTube. Alan first introduced this baker to us back in February 2021: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67469/polenta-levain-kingdom-bakery-tampa-fl]
American Pumpernickel An adaptation of German Pumpernickel aka Old Milwaukee Rye. No need to bake it for up to 18 hours. Not 50% rye but we'll accept it in place of German Pumpernickel and pretend it checks all the right boxes. Not everyone is happy about baking a loaf for so long and this recipe allows one to appreciate "Pumpernickel" with a bit more ease.
Yeasted Polish Rye Bread : A nice channel on YouTube. Unfortunately she doesn't post any videos anymore. However here is a yeasted Polish Rye Bread for those who don't have a sourdough starter.
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The following are links to some of our previous Community Bakes
- Lake Champlain Sourdough by Trevor Wilson
- Fifty-Fifty Whole Wheat Sourdough by Maurizio Leo
- Soughdough Baguettes by Maurizio Leo
- 1-2-3 Sourdough by Flo Makanai
- Five-Grain Levain by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Maurizio's Oat Porridge SD by Maurizio Leo
- Community Bake - Pizza
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - Yeast Water - Part 1 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Hamelman’s Swiss Farmhouse Bread - The Bread - Part 2 by Jeffrey Hamelman
- Basic Open Crumb Sourdough by Kristen of FullProofBaking
- The Approachable Loaf- Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread by The Bread Lab
- Baguettes featuring Alfanso
- Deli Rye - NY Jewish Bakery/Deli style Rye breads
- Durum - Semolina Breads
- Babka
- Portuguese Style Hawaiian Sweet Bread
- Ciabatta
All bakers of any skill level is invited and encouraged to join in. The Community Bakes are not competitive events. There are no winners and losers. Everyone that actively participants is guaranteed to learn something(s) new.
Some Community Bakes get extremely large. If you find that you are getting too many notifications of new replies and would like to decrease or stop the messages SEE THIS LINK.
just a tabespoon or so in the water? Grated apple? Chopped dry apple?
Or blend an apple and add some to the dough. Will also add some pectin for a nice texture, and improve keeping qualities. How much to add is another question though...
Might be heading up the right tree.
Thanks you guys. These are great ideas. I may be reaching too much with this connection but for some reason it really hit me a few "times" back on mounting up a new rye starter, and Mini, with your idea - and the aroma as I opened the bag - it really screamed out.
Looking forward to trying these. Many thanks again, merci, vielen Dank!
Wow I can’t keep up just reading about your bakes Paul, this one is a stunner.
Benny
Merci, mon ami talentueux.
Both of your ryes look delicious. You certainly have selected a couple of challenging recipes to start.
How do you maintain the temperature for the Malzstück? I have an Inkbird controller and a slow cooker but I haven't decided whether that is the best combo for these scalds.
Thanks! I do exactly as you're thinking. Works great. Well, I use a rice cooker because my wife's slow cooker unfortunately has to be re-selected (digitally) every time it shuts off from the Inkbird. The rice cooker is great, I just float the container in that and, keeping it on "cook" it goes only a degree or so C high from the target temp. ("maintain" has a hard time recovering target temp once it goes low). His Kenwood sounds awesome - pretty nice to have the two machines!
> The crust was really hard - toothbreakingly hard, which is something I've experienced with this type
Your comment about the crust came to mind when I saw Elly's Simple 100% Whole Grain Rye Sourdough Bread video. After removing her bread from the oven, she wraps it in towels as it cools overnight, which she says keeps the crust softer. Her videos are so relaxing!
https://youtu.be/fnZzKd9NpuA
Well done on all of the beautiful rye bakes.
Sorry, I thought I'd replied but I don't see it. Thanks for this, a great idea and will try it. And for Elly's video. I've never watched her but I am instantly home. The accent alone always puts me at ease!
I’ve been lurking on this site for a while, especially after I bought The Rye Baker. I seem to have caught rye fever at the exact same time as many others.
I had hoped to contribute a Horst Bandel Black Pumpernickel, but I over-hydrated the dough and it didn’t turn out well enough to show anyone.
So here is Sweet Limpa from the rye baker. It is very quick and easy, and produces a sweet and tender loaf. I had no idea 100% rye could turn out like this.
I’ll probably be back in a few days with a better attempt at the Horst Bandel.
Tried a few but many more to work through. Quick and easy, sweet and tender, rye loaf? Sounds lovely and looks delicious. Looking forward to your next bake.
Wow - those are beautiful! I've only baked a few from Stanley's book (love the East Berliner especially). I'll have to try this one.
A pair of beauties, well done.
Benny
Sweet and tender sounds like just the ticket. Looking forward to your Horst bandel now
Wow, those look great! I haven't really delved much into the "Scandinavian" chapter of the Rye Baker, I will have to give these a try. Looking at the recipe, the milk, spices and molasses sound like they should deliver a very tasty bread.
Okay, I would like to play along even though I am not sure what I am doing with a 50% rye in the dough, as I have never done that before. Are you sure 50% rye will be good enough to play here?
Anyway, I have just put together a biga as pictured below. It will ferment for 48 hours before I use it. It consists of 50% dark rye, 40% bread, and 5% WW for a 95% preferment. The left over 5% will be a 60% hydration levain.
I have just created a levain as shown below.
Biga out of the fridge with no rise, which is supposed to be.
That's an awful long time unless you allow it to ripen and then refrigerate.
Which recipe do you have in mind?
Yes, I leave it on the counter until I can smell a hint of fermentation, usually 3-6 hours, and then I put it in the fridge. I have also done frequently by putting it in my basement for 24 hours without refrigeration. My basement is usually around 55-60 F in the winter.
I do not follow anyone's recipe, I just pulled it out of my head, hope it will work but even if it does not it will still be a fun thing to do.
Whatever happens i'm sure it'll be fun to do. Looking forward to whatever you come up with. Take a look at other recipes for ideas on how rye should be handled. I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Have a few ideas forming of my own. Was going to do one sooner however I had just baked a big loaf the day before I posted the community bake and want to finish that off first.
Best of luck.
Bulk ferment for about 4 hours, longer than expected.
Divide, shape, and then proof.
Couldn't bake last night as planned so I had to fridge the shaped baguettes to bake this morning. It was a total disappointment. I was not surprised at all to see a tight crumb but was shocked that they did not expand much in the oven like it would with my regular baguettes which usually have about 40% whole grain. They did have a rich whole grain taste which I like. My visiting mom and I ate both for lunch. Nonetheless, from this experience I don't think I am anxious to do more rye bake anytime soon. Thanks Abe to bring the urge out of me to try this fun experiment. Cheers!
By my eyes, those looks absolutely gorgeous and I'm betting that they were delicious as well. I admire your setting high standards for yourself. I hope you find your way back to "The Dark Side," as Mini-Oven told me the first time I fell from grace devoted myself to learning rye.
By my eyes, those looks absolutely gorgeous and I'm betting that they were delicious as well. I admire your setting high standards for yourself. I hope you find your way back to "The Dark Side," as Mini-Oven told me the first time I fell from grace devoted myself to learning rye.
Thanks for your nice comment. There was a grain sweetness aftertaste which I really like. Cheers!
Oven shot after 12 min covered bake. Wanted to bake one loaf at a time to test the water but it did not make a difference anyway.
Hadjiandreou's 100% rye with caraway & grapefruit zest.
I couldn't have done this without amazing help from Abe and MiniOven (see https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/69750/hadjiandreous-corianderorange-zest-100-rye)
It's a flavorful & easy recipe ...
... once you figure out two steps Hadjiandreou was a bit unspecific with:
--cover the levain completely with the dry ingredients before adding the boiled water & then stir it all together.
--Hadjiandreou proofs hot -- starting at 50C/120F
Enjoy!
Rob
oops -- coriander
Rob that looks fine. Did you do the recipe as written for weighs and what size is your pan? Did the recipe specify pan size anywhere it’s hard to read the photo of the page on my iPhone.
Benny
thanks Benny. It should have been in a smaller & narrower loaf pan. I increased the recipe by 25% - but that didn't compensate enough for my oversized pan. So I got a more horizontal loaf than I would have if I had the correct pan.
Otherwise, I pretty much followed the recipe w a few tiny tweaks:
-- I followed Abe's afvice & fermented 10 g starter w 50g flour and 50g water for 10 hours and used that to mix the levain
-- Due to a quirk in my work schedule, I fermented the levain for about 12 hours.
Rob
Not to be a pest but what pan size did you use?
... but the recipe specifies a 500g/1lb loaf pan and my pan is prob about double that size
Thanks so maybe 8x4” or 9x5” then. I’ve saved and written out the recipe I looks like a nice one to try eventually.
Benny
so, I checked my pan: it's marked 10x5.
Rob
Wow that’s a big pan Rob, thanks for checking on that of me, much appreciated.
Benny
You'll need something like this. The 3 holes at the bottom of the pan helps make a nice crust. With very liquid doughs it 'might' leak out a bit but won't be much of a problem. Rye dough even though high hydration tends not to be so liquid. You might just need to wipe it away once and then it stops leaking. For normal doughs it won't ever be an issue. Or you could put a piece of parchment paper on the bottom. However these pans make very nice loaves.
despite being 100% hydration, this dough was not liquidy at all (caveat: I used Farmer Ground flour, which is coarsely ground -- a finer grind might produce a less viscous mix.)
That crumb you have there is typical of rye. And really glad you enjoy the taste. Orange and Coriander sound like a lovely paring. Just want to echo Benny here... You would have gotten a taller loaf with using a smaller loaf pan. The only thing off is the size of the pan to the dough. Judging from the photos you need to either double up on the dough or use a pan that's half the size. Otherwise that is an excellent loaf. And thank you for bringing our attention to the recipe.
Bon Appetit.
For sure you are rght. I looked for but didn't find a smaller loaf pan in retail stores here in NYC. There were some -- but I ddn't like the idea that they were only rated to max 200C/425F. I increased the recipe by 25% -- but that clearly wasn't enough.
So it's more horizontal than it should be.
Thanks again.
Rob
The blog post: "Rye Flour Classification: Untangling the Mess" by Stanley Ginsberg.
He explains the confusion over "light, medium, dark" and "dark vs whole" and "flour vs meal vs pumpernickel".
http://theryebaker.com/rye-flour/
Bottom line: There is no industry-wide agreement over what the names and adjectives mean, so the buyer may have to ask for specifications like ash %.
For example: At Bob's Red Mill, they call their whole rye "dark rye." But at Bay State Milling, "dark rye" means whole rye that has had a portion of its endosperm removed. Hence their dark rye is darker (has a higher % of bran and germ) than even whole grain (100% extraction) rye!
If you're confused, this is the article to read.
I've started some rye sprouts to make solod for a Borodinsky, I'm very intrigued by manipulating (essentially) a single ingredient for such depth of flavor, but since that seems to be a week(s) long project, I would like to fit in a quick Rugbrod before this after seeing a few posts above. How do people generally mill rye for Rugbrod? For whole wheat loaves, the rule of thumb is *usually* as-fine-as-possible-for-your-mill, for example, "stones just barely ticking", etc. The main exceptions seem to be coarse soakers for added texture, etc. I recall one post suggesting rye generally benefits from a coarser default grind in order to achieve the right consistency or viscosity that is needed to achieve structure that is provided by gluten in wheat loaves. How do people usually think about home milling rye for 100% rye loaves?
With a link [above in the main body of the community bake] to the YouTube channel and the accompanying video.
Alan (Alfanso) first introduced us to this baker back in 2021 when he posted his Polenta Levain recipe.
Hope you find inspiration. Enjoy!
Edit: Thank you Alan. I posted it above but can't go wrong with having it twice. He does a marvellous job (which is to be expected of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTDL57zTcRQ
I've been working on them already made a few so won't post here. These are "Roggenmischbroten," the mixed ryes that are the breads consumed popularly and daily by German folks. The spare ingredients are like a constraining practice arena, to me, good place to open up to new flavors and techniques,
I thought it might be interesting for some folks to see this graph based on an informal survey Brotdoc did, regarding the preference Germans had for their types of bread. I was not surprised by some, and very surprised by others. See what you think:
I'd just like to add, I don't want to take up the bandwidth gushing about what I'm seeing, so I'll do it here as a general statement of appreciation I'm utterly blown away by the beautiful, inspirational breads here. The creativity is mind-blowing and the mastery is very humbling. In a word, you guys kick my ass and you're a goal worthy to work towards.
Paul
Will write more soon. Just a photo and a quick outline of recipe before I forget.
I have a feeling it might be under fermented but ran out of time. Started the dough too late. Ideally i'd have liked to have given the starter + scald more time and have done a bulk ferment with the final dough. We'll see...
As I thought... needed more time. Cut into it just 3 hours after baking but on the whole a very tasty loaf. The walnut, caraway and a slight tang coming through. A very soft crumb!
Think it might improve if left for a bit longer. It's so fresh my knife tears the crumb. I'll take another crumb shot after it's had time to rest.
This looks like an awesome formula, Abe, can't wait to get your further impressions. The issues with terminology, as we've all talked about - unfortunate we don't have a consistent system, like they do in Europe. When you say "Dark Rye," are you saying something like Bob's Red Mill dark, which is simply a whole-grain grind, or do you mean "Dark Rye" as in Bay State's Dark Rye, essentially a rye much llke wheat's first clear, more ash than whole grain?
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's going to be a false crumb. Built 110g starter and for some reason I only used 50g and the starter + scald really didn't look ready. If it had been ready then i'm sure the final proof of 3 hours would have been fine. I'm thinking the crumb may let me down however if the taste goes by the aroma of when it was baking it'll be tasty.
Here is the Dark Rye I used. Doesn't say much else apart from this flour giving a 'distinctive rich, slightly sour taste, ideal for Scandinavian dark rye breads".
Abe, cultural myopathy, my apologies. For some reason I thought you were in the US. Yeah they don't give any ash content so it's hard to tell but based on descriptions, I strongly suspect that's whole rye flour, and not a kind of what we call in the States First Clear or what, maybe (?) in Germany is referred to as Black Rye, or T2500. All good. Thanks for the pic and the continuing narrative.
To identify the difference between Wholegrain Rye flour and Dark Rye flour by the nutritional content alone? Something like the protein and/or fibre percentage?
Am I right in thinking that Dark Rye (or T2500) flour has more of the bran added to it? Whereas wholegrain is simply nothing added or taken away? If so, we should be able to get an idea by the nutritional value.
I'm not sure on that, because it's not about protein but literally how much ash is left after burn tests. I don't think either protein or nutritional content labeling will give you anything useful in that regard.
It's a good question on whether "dark" can mean, at least with some millers, that bran has been added back in as a kind of blend for darker flour. I had the same question. As I understand at least this interpretation of "Dark," it's more like what we call "First Clear," or what's left over after some of the refined white flour has been drawn away. Dregs, basically!
And didn't come up with anything about ash but rather your second understanding of it.
Dark Rye is wholegrain. Or, can mean wholegrain. T2500, however, has more bran than wholegrain (to give a darker rye) which obviously means there's more added. As to how much that depends on the desired affect. That;s why I thought it'd alter the nutrional value of the flour.
So I think my flour is simply 100% wholegrain. Darker than First Clear but but not as dark as T2500 which has more bran than wholegrain. Ash content of grain is not something i've delved into.
Yeah I really doubt anyone in the UK would bother selling any weird rye flours. It's not that popular. I'm sure Waitrose dark rye is just whole rye.
That should tell you something about ash since they tend to correlate. The more fibre, the higher the ash content.
Online ingredients say wholemeal rye flour https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-dark-rye-flour/865999-261024-261025
I'd wondered, but how would you know - compare to a known whole grain flour?
Taking a known wholegrain rye average nutritional content and then making an educated guess.
Hi Mini,
Fibre is 17%. How dies that compare to a known wholegrain or T2500?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7599874/
See page 11-12
Dietary Fibre composition of Rye is roughly 14-21% dietary fibre by weight.
Dietary fibre can be found in three locations with the endosperm containing 12% dietary fibre, the outer endosperm 22% dietary fibre, and the bran 38% dietary fibre based on dry weight.
In the middle of the normal range which makes it Wholegrain Rye.
Thanks, Mini.
17g per 100g. So 17% fibre. How does that correlate to wholegrain or T2500?
I think kg-for-kg, First clear would have more bran and be darker than whole grain because whole grain also contains more of the white, inner mass of the endosperm than does First Clear. As to whether they add it in for the T2500 effect, or it's like our First Clear, yeah, I really don't know.
Edit: Mini, do you happen to know how T2500 is made? Reading more - it's an Austrian thing?
to find out. I got caught on this study of wholemeal rye flour until my brain turned into overproofed dough. It is very technical but if you like that kind of thing... Industrial made rye flour
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6722811/?report=classic
I was looking for high ash content/fibre correlation studies and got a little distracted. One has to look at labeled protein content as well as fibre content. Usually the more protein in the flour, the more fibre (and ash) it contains. The outer parts, bran and outer endosperm contain a good bit of protein and fibre and they are the tasty bits. It makes sense to say that the higher the protein in the rye flour the less increase in loaf volume for a 100% rye bread. Gosh, I love those "bricks!"
I hadn't thought of that (how protein may be suggestive), that makes great sense. I tell you one thing - I conquered sourcing for solod.....now I am dying to try a true R 2500!
Hahahahaha - that is poetry. And no, I've never been there....lol!
Well, took awhile - seems even German bakers are perplexed, especially because it's an Austrian flour - again that's just from info I've searched over the last bit of time. I got this from Bon'gu, which may be telling that it is something like a First Clear?
"A whole grain rye flour finely ground without germ." That sounds a lot like, but not exactly, First Clear, to me anyway. Maybe literally only bran, which is why it's used sparingly?
When I saw your original comment about the 'white' flour taken away I just took that to mean it's not wholegrain!
But the germ is the tastiest and healthiest part of the grain. I'd be tempted to just use wholegrain and if I wished to replicate T2500 perhaps add in some more bran.
I am wandering blind here my friend, but I believe R2500 is more like it's ground bran- maybe more so than first clear, which presumably even keeps some of the endosperm.
I'm with you on just adding in some bran. I am bummed in a way that we just don't have the rye traditions here that support all the different grades of rye (hmm...maybe time for a change of permanent scenery). I saw Lutz tried an experiment with 100% R2500, and it was a gummy disaster. My understanding is they use it in limited amounts for added color, "juiciness" ("saftig" quality) and keeping quality. So maybe almost a kind of adjunct?
https://www.landschafftleben.at/lebensmittel/mehl/tipps/unterscheidung-und-mehlsorten
Now, if you scroll down to rye...
Roggen 960 type. 80% of the whole kernal is milled and recommended for use with mixed flour breads.
Roggenmehl type 2500, dark, known as black rye flour, you might be able to read that they recommend to use 10% and not more than 20% of the total recipe flour. (It is sold in 800g packages to emphasize this suggestion, it is smaller than the standard one kilo packages sold for most flours.)
for 100g Brennwert in kJ: 1324kJ
Brennwert in kcal: 316kcal
Fett:1,1g
Davon Gesättigte Fettsäuren: 0,20g
Kohlenhydrate: 68,6g
Davon Zucker: 6,8g
Ballaststoffe: 12,8g. <------fibre
Eiweiß: 6,90g <-----protein
Salz: 0,03g
Roggenvollkornmehl is 100% all kernal, very dark, only a very small part removed during grain cleaning. This flour is used for Vollkornbrot, whole grain bread,
Thanks Mini. It was interesting to me that I found virtually no info on what Schwarzmehl actually is, i.e., how it's milled, how it's made. I couldn't find anything definitive and though I was on a few home baker sites, with some asking this very question, I saw no answers. And the millers who do produce it (like Drax, here) don't offer much beyond a small descriptor of its quality/use in a bake:
Interesting they suggest limiting it to 10% relative to the rye flour otherwise used.
It reminds me of some malts and grains used in brewing. Black Patent malt, for instance, often used in the making of porter. It gives a beautiful black (as opposed to deep brown) quality, a touch of roastiness and mostly an acrid, what I get as "ashy" quality that oddly works, for me - helps make the porter drinkable (it was after all the drink of choice for working people as England industrialized) and drier against the sugary crystal malts almost always used.
Added: Just happened to look over some of my brewing recipes. My "Ironbridge Robust Porter" only contains 3% black patent malt. My "Cloakstone" Porter has no black patent. Has an interesting malt, a German product called "carafa" which is de-husked, roasted malt. The color without the tannic acridness. (Another has 3% "de-bittered black," really the same idea as carafa). My "Baltic Black Ale," really the strong porters commissioned by Queen Victoria and made from the Baltics to Russia for British consumption) again has no black malt though it again has 6.5% carafa (and 4.8% rye malt).
Sorry for the side journey into brewing. I no longer drink beer, but am insanely in love making it and miss that; posted for one in case someone else is into brewing and, secondly, interesting to me I see parallels with Schwarzroggen and perhaps the same purposes as Black Patent. Not much in the way of "breadiness," but gives these color, higher water retention, and length in storage?
https://lerchenmuehle.at/de/sortiment-produkte/salzburger-landmehl-bio-mehle/bio-schwarzroggenmehl-t2500
Oh my god, Mini. I am so stricken with jealousy!
it is one hour 37 minutes away by car and they just got dumped with a meter of snow. Diesel price is €1.50 per litre. Maybe by mail but the interesting part would be to watch them mill the flour. This dark dark flour is made from the outer layers of the grain. Interesting.
Stan might want to put this spot on his European bread tour as soon as they become available again.
Looks good. The rye + walnut combination sounds like a winner, and I really like the rugby shape. Thanks for pulling this CB together.
This recipe kept on evolving. Had some walnuts so wanted to use them. Needed to use up some milk so thought why not make a buttermilk substitute with ACV and so on.
I'm about to try a bit even though it was only baked 3-4 hours ago. I know we shouldn't cut into rye till the next day but a little taste can't do any harm.
Can't wait.
And apparently neither can you. Man after my own heart, lol. Looking forward to it!
tip: After cutting off a tiny slice, tip the loaf on end, cut side down, either on the cutting board or a plate while it continues to cool. This should help prevent escaping moisture and rapid drying out of the exposed crumb. You might have to cut a second slice just to stabilize a tall loaf ....if it looks like it might fall over. :)
There will be some condensation on the plate or board
Hi, Mini:
When should I wrap it up in a tea towel and put it in a plastic bag? Should I put it in right after it comes out of the oven or wait until it cools? I haven't baked rye bread for so long that I've forgotten what to do with it!
Thank you!
Yippee
Place the hot loaf on a rack to cool, takes about 4 hours in a 24°C kitchen. Higher room temps take longer, cooler less. Wrapping in a tea towel takes longer but may holld in more moisture, it will certainly moisturize the towel to some degree. When I can watch it, I put it on a rack over a large pan or bowl, a bowl much bigger than the loaf. Then throw a half folded towel loosely over the loaf. Cool.
When cool, I wrap high rye "bricks" tightly in plastic wrap or store in a container or bag with little air between the loaf and the container. Should there be any condensation under the wrap or on the container, return to rack to cool longer. Let plastic wrap dry. Heavy full grain loaves get a few drops of good quality oil thinly spread on the surface that touches the loaf to prevent sticking. Letting such loaves air dry a few minutes before slicing gives a cleaner crust cut if needed. Let the loaf set undisturbed for at least a day before cutting.
Mixed rye and wheat loaves get a thin paper bag and bread box storage or thin paper bag inside a plastic bag or large grocery type paper bag. A lot depends on the abient humidity. With high humidity and tropical temps, I would slice and freeze after the first 24-36 hours after baking to let the moisture in the loaf even out and to prevent molding. I would freeze and bread you dont plan on eating in the 3 days following baking. Cooler climates, storing wrapped lightly in paper and placed in a bread box works best. These mixed flour loaves often are cut open on the same day after they are cooled and slightly warm. I would give any loaf upwards of 60% rye flour, at least 6 hours before cutting. The higher the rye content, the longer the crumb takes to set before slicing.
Late night bakes might need extra care to prevent too much drying of the loaf crust after loaves have cooled. It might be wise to put the loaf and rack after about an hour of room cooling into a cold oven or microwave oven and close the door to finish cooling while you sleep. Setting the rack into a sink and cover the whole sink with a towel (add a warning note) also works well.
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Yippee
Excellent post, fantastic info. Thanks mini.
Lol, that's what I do. Problem is I bake way too many breads for our family, even after giving some away to neighbors and friends. My board looks like a kind of motley Stonehenge.
That's the secret of Stonehenge! It was built for bakers!
It's a looker. One of the great naughty pleasures is eating warm bread, even when you know you shouldn't!
Otherwise known as South Tyrol Farmers' Bread.
Recipe link and more details can be found in my blog post here.
Lance
Bread looks fantastic, Lance. I am so interested in this area. Looking forever to reading your blog. Have you come across this book by any chance? If so, your thoughts on the book?
Thanks Paul; I have seen that book but I'm afraid my knowledge of German wouldn't do it justice. Much easier to read the Austrian, German and Russian sites with a translator (sigh).
And I already have too many bread and cookery books....
Lance
Gotcha. Well, I'm right there with you. I can muddle through but it's no great shakes. It just drives me crazy enough to actually commit to the daily slog of self-imposed torture of studying the language.
Please give me the secret, seriously. I am terminal with cookbook acquisition syndrome, though finally we're running out of squeezing every possible free space and all my brewing, cheesemaking (and technical books associated with both) have been banished to our basement. I hate it. I am comforted by looking at all my purdy books.
Here is my bake of Rugbrod [LINK], by Jennifer Lapidus, thanks to Benny's detailed notes above in this thread. Thanks to the other recent TFL Rugbrod bakers for directing my attention to this one. I used a home milled whole rye at a fine setting for the bake. I really like the flavor in this simple bread relative to my previous bakes of Vollkornbrot, and I'll be comparing these recipes to understand the differences.
An even distribution of add-ins and a lovely crumb. Rugbrod is packed with flavour and yours looks delicious. Thank you so much for your valuable contribution to this community bake.
Mmmmmm
Nice bake David, it will be interesting to see if the more complicated Borodinsky loaf which you've said you've got in progress turns out more to your taste than this one or not.
-Jon
Thanks. It was a bake-by-numbers effort and an aha moment in my limited rye experience. I'm glad the simple fine rye milling worked out (well enough to meet my standards at least). The Borodinsky is a work in progress. I'm following [THIS] sprout and malting primer and notes from happycat's bake this fall [LINK].
That looks amazing David, you hit that out of the park. Tell me, as written I found the salt maybe just a bit high for my taste and I made a footnote that I would reduce the salt a bit in the future. Do you find it a bit too salty or was it fine for you? I really liked this better than the other 100% rye loaf I baked.
Benny
I think I understand, but it seems to be balanced by the depth of flavor in this one. I also don't use sweeteners often and I'm guessing this could make the 1 1/2 tsp of honey more prominent to me (especially in combination with the rye maltiness). I forgot to mention that I used coconut oil to grease the pan (so much so that it oozed on to the top of the loaf and I had to blot some off), and I think that may have contributed to a richer flavor in the slightly crispy golden crust that formed in the final uncovered bake. I forgot I was housing the rye sour in a covered pot on the stove when I preheated the oven for something, so it got a brief unintentional sauna before I realized the mistake, which may have accelerated the fermentation relative to the room temperature it calls for. This is definitely one I'll do again.
That's scrumptious. It's a bread, because of your bake and another thread (very sorry guys, can't remember) and a decent smattering of Danish (undoubtedly badass Viking blood Danish) blood in my family line well....I must make this bread. Thanks for the inspiration and your journey.
I've seen a previous comment saying that instead of docking or spraying with water one thing you can do is pour whey on top prior to going into the oven?
This was the comment "There was a baker on this site a few years ago that formed her whole wheat dough in the pan and then poured whey (left over from kefir) into the pan until it just covered the dough. When she baked it, the liquid evaporated and she had a shiny crusted,dark brown loaf with no steaming needed."
Is this a good idea? My loaf for this community bake already in bulk and this is my "phone a friend" question!
-Jon
if the loaf isn't drowning in the whey. Other coatings over a loaf can include milk, cream, mayonaise, egg, water, oil. Starch or flower and water mixtures. Just be aware that some toppings and glazes may brown faster or slower than the loaf itself. Generally glazes with sugar, fats, eggs, additions of malt, brown faster. Some add a pinch of salt to the glaze. Whey contains a fair amount if not all the sugar in the milk after the curds have been removed. So watch the crust carefully. This might mean turning down the heat if the browning is excessive or covering the loaf with foil during the latter half of the bake.
The fun part is that seeds and co. will stick to a whey brushed surface. :)