I thought I would make a post on how I keep my starter for those who have an interest in doing the same. My method is based on several wants. First, I don’t want to maintain or feed a starter for up to 16 weeks. Second, I want to keep as small amount of starter as possible so that I can bake a loaf of bread each week using a bit of it and still have it last 16 weeks. Thirdly, I want a starter that is sourer and has a higher LAB to yeast ratio than the normal 100 to 1 found in most starters. Finally two more wants, I don’t want any waste and I want to make any kind of bread with it.
To get these characteristics I make a stiff (66% hydration) whole rye starter in the 100g range and keep it in the fridge. Stiff is relative, since many breads are made with this hydration but mine tend to be quite a bit more wet than 66%. I take a small bit the starter each week and when it gets down to 10 g or so I build it back up using a 3 stage starter build. As follows:
Build | 1st | 1st |
| 2nd | 2nd |
| 3rd | 3rd |
|
|
Seed | Flour | Water | Total | Flour | Water | Total | Flour | Water | Total | H2O |
10 | 10 | 10 | 30 | 20 | 20 | 70 | 40 | 16 | 126 | 65.7% |
8 | 8 | 8 | 24 | 16 | 16 | 56 | 32 | 13 | 101 | 66.1% |
6 | 6 | 6 | 18 | 12 | 12 | 42 | 24 | 10 | 76 | 66.6% |
I usually build the 101 g total line for my 1 loaf of SD bread a week. The first two feedings are 4 hours each at 100% hydration and the starter should double 4 hours after the 2nd feeding. I it doesn’t then toss the 2nd feeding total amount in weight and redo it. The final 66%hydration is accomplished by using much less water for the 3rd feeding. Once the starter rises 25% in volume after the 3rd feeding, that is when you refrigerate it for its long term storage.
Make sure you are maintaining 80 -84 F while building the starter. This is the temperature range that suits yeast reproduction rates and the LAB will still be out reproducing yeast at that temperatures. What happens, over weeks of storage time in the fridge, is that the starter will become sourer as time progresses. The bread it makes after 8 weeks in the fridge is worth the wait.
But, like most things it is relative and the resulting bread isn’t too sour either. If you want really sour bread do some of the following at 94 F – build the starter, levain build, gluten development, bulk ferment or final proof after shaping. I like using a small amount of starter to build a levain amount under 10%, a very cold bulk ferment, counter warm up and a 94 F final proof when I’m going for a really sour bread.
Now, to get this small amount of starter to last for 12-16 weeks you want to make bread with a small amount of it to build the larger levain you want for the bread. Here is a chart to use for 800g of dough (1 loaf for me) that can be used for different times of years, various ambient temperatures, how much time you have (faster or slower process needed) and how much sour you want for the time you have. Making a 3-5 day loaf of retarded bread in the summer is much different than making 1 day SD bread in the winter. I like to retard dough to bring out its full flavor and fit my schedule better. So in the warm summer, I use half the levain that I might in the colder winter months to get a 12 hour retard into the process. To get more sour in a 1 day (after a 12 hour levain build process), I might use 30% levain (the 240 g line) to speed things along and still keep some of the sour I want. Here is a chart to use for various levain builds for 800 g of dough using this starter.
|
| First | First |
| 2nd | 2nd |
| 3rd | 3rd |
|
Dough |
| Build | Build |
| Build | Build |
| Build | Build |
|
Weight | Seed | Flour | Water | Total | Flour | Water | Total | Flour | Water | Total |
800 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 15 | 11 | 11 | 37 | 22 | 22 | 81 |
800 | 4 | 8 | 8 | 21 | 17 | 17 | 54 | 33 | 33 | 120 |
800 | 6 | 11 | 11 | 28 | 22 | 22 | 72 | 44 | 44 | 160 |
800 | 7 | 14 | 14 | 34 | 28 | 28 | 90 | 55 | 55 | 200 |
800 | 8 | 17 | 17 | 41 | 33 | 33 | 108 | 66 | 66 | 240 |
The method of the levain build remains the same – (3) 4 hour builds. If the levain fails to double 4 hours after the 2nd build then toss the 2nd build weights and redo the 2nd feeding. I usually refrigerate the levain for 24 hours after it rises 75% -100% after the 3rd feeding to bring out more sour and fit my schedule.
If you mill your own flour and or have a sieve, you might consider sifting the whole grain flour and use the sifted out hard bits to feed the levain. He levain seems to love these hard bits and getting them wet for a longer period will help to get these hard bits as soft as possible potentially resulting in better spring, bloom and a more open crumb. I even do this with sprouted, dried and milled whole grain bits but build less levain as these grains are on steroids already and might turn the dough to goo if trying for a 12 hour retard.
For the 3 stage starter and the levain builds it might take 8-12 hours in the summer if your kitchen is a warm as mine and more than 12 hours in the winter if you don’t use a heating pad. You can make any bread with this starter and levain method by using the flour you want for the levain build. Use white flours for white breads and various whole grains for bread with whole grains in them. Any combination of levain flour works - at least for the more than 100 varieties of bread I have made with it. Without any maintenae of the starter or throwing any starter or levain away.
Happy SD baking the No Muss No Fuss way!
Ok, I've had the NMNF starter built and it's been working great...I've baked probably 6 or 7 loaves without issue. However, this week when I went to build the Levain...NOTHING HAPPENS?!?
I'm building just as I have for the past month...in a makeshift proofer at 83-85 degrees. The levain is super sour but I'm not getting any rise at all. Thoughts on what could be causing this to fail after a month of success when nothing has changed but the time the seed has been sitting in the back of the refrigerator?
Has the seed gotten too sour to the point where yeast is being out competed? I just ran a quick PH test on some of the seed and a tiny bit of water and it comes back at 4.
100% rye if it matters...
I'm now using this exclusively and it's incredible! I've experimented with leaving the 3rd feeding out on the counter overnight at a cool room temp and that works brilliantly too!
In the back of my party fridge it lay for 13 months. I opened the crypt and saw a dark brown-Gray ball that smelled of Rye sour bliss.
So I started it up again and will report! I betcha that kid will no doubt break some faces!
By the way I wonder if we don’t need a NMNF pdf pack collecting all this info in a tome?
reboot the second feeding and leaving it overnight. It might be time to re- make the starter?
the starter did not move a mm. In fact it went down. I believe it is time to make a new starter. I guess a year is too much for the yeasties.
the starter only rose after the second day, with no feedings. Let’s just say I am pulling out my rye flour for a new one.
Greetings to all of you. I'm new here. I've been studying this forum from some time experimenting with sourdough baking. After some trials and errors I started maintaining my starter "no muss no fuss" way but i've got some doubts I would like to ask you for.
I have problems with 4 hour starter feeding cycle. During work-week it's simply imposible for me to keep this inverval. The better for me would be 8 our interval. Should I increase feeding ratio to match 8 hour interval or maybe leave as it is (the "starvation time" will favour fast growing yeast). I had great effects with standard feeding and I'm affraid to go up with ratios because last time I tried to, I dilluted my started to the point it was useless (I was feeding 1:5:5 ratios not waiting long enough to fully ferment). If I stay with standard feeding I will be sure that it won't happen anymore.
Is it good idea to "starve" starter a little, maybe it doesn't matter. I couldnt find good answer for this question.
Second question is about ratios, yeast activity, and fermentation time. Could you share with me some sources regarding relationship beetwen these factor. I'd like to know how to calculate the time needed for the peak of the yeast activity and furthermore how long to ferment the dough to be ready to bake.
Lazurx, unless your starter is kept in a very warm place it shouldn’t be peaking in 4 hours. Before you start the retard stage of your No Mess No Fuss starter it should be consistently cycling through your room temp refreshes.
Tell us exactly what you are doing with your starter at this time. Be sure to specify the temperature and feed ratio.
BTW. The “starvation time” will favor the acids produced by the LAB over the yeast.
I use a multi-stage levain development too.
An aspect I like about it that has not been mentioned is that your final levain has flour of various fermentation in it, adding to the overall complexity.
The "oldest" one, the flour of the first build, having spent the most time in fermentation has 14% of the levain flour. (And of course the chef itself with its fridge taste is small part of the final levain too.)
The middle build of the levain with 29% of the overall levain flour, has second longest time in fermentation.
And your "youngest" part of the levain is another 57% of the four.
Started up the Quick method of this starter. I have to ask, is dabrownman around?
V
Dabrownman isn't around anymore.
As in, no longer with us? Or the site?
v
As far as I can tell, he hasn't posted since 2021.
Blog post siting
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/74730/its-almost-3-years-lucy-passed-11112021
This says you can stick it in the fridge after the third stage... Has anyone had problems with this in the past?
So build one day and bake the next? Won't the fridge slow the starter?