Hi all,
I'm getting back into sourdough baking for the winter! It's been a few years since I was active on this site and about 2 years since I had an active starter in the house. But over the last 10 days or so I've recreated a fairly happy rye/AP starter kept at about 95% hydration. The start has gotten to the point where it doubles in about 12-14 hours, nice yeast smell and very low acidic aroma (mostly only when it's ready for a feeding). For some reason, I'm having trouble getting bread to rise though.
My first loaf I made with about 500g bread flour (or 460g flour, 20g rye and 20g whole wheat), 360g H2O, and 200g starter, 18g salt. I purposefully made the first loaf in an alchemistic way, just to see if I could still bake by feel. Regular S+F before bulk ferment overnight (around 10hrs). This loaf had no noticeable rise in the bulk ferment, and I was disappointed in the morning. I shaped it aggressively and then left it to proof for about 4-5hrs, and after seeing no rise I just decided to bake it off because I figured it was a lost cause. Final loaf was short and dense, with a consistent crumb and some larger holes throughout, but a gummy texture. Flavor was quite acidic.
After creating another levain, I baked again the next day. I went for a smaller loaf, 392g Bread flour, 275g H2O, 125g Starter, and 15g salt. This is my go-to recipe that I have always used as a base recipe for tweaking (although usually I use just 100g starter and 18g salt). This dough I focused much more on developing gluten since the first loaf was very slack. Autolyse, then mixed in levain, and incorporated the salt in the folds early in bulk ferment (to make sure I wasn't killing off yeast by salting it directly). This dough was much more manageable and less sticky, but still I saw no rise in BF after about 8 hours at 82f. So I shaped it, proofed another few hours until it help up to the finger-poke test, and baked. Definitely a better oven spring, even got a little grigne and ears on it, but still the boule was barely larger than the original dough ball. Dense texture still, and a slightly gummy crumb. The crumb structure was slightly better and more open.
Any ideas on why my starter wont raise dough yet? It has passed the float test and doubles in 12 hours when fed 1:1:1 by weight. Also, for the record I bake the breads in a 500f cast iron dutch oven as per Ken Forkish recipes (30 minutes lid on, and then take it out of the dutch oven and bake at 425 until crust color is what I like and temp is 200 internal.
Any advice would be appreciated or any stories you've had that are similar! Thanks all! I look forward to being able to contribute around here again (this site has been a huge influence on me in my baking career/hobby and I appreciate you all very much)
The amount of salt should be about 2% of the flour weight (not dough weight), so I'd try that as the first remedy. In the first recipe, I would've used 10g salt, not 18g.
Would you include the weight of flour in the starter in that equation then? I.E. in your opinion a ~400g flour, 280g water, 100g starter loaf would get 8g of salt (2% of 400) instead of 9g (2% of 450 for the 50g flour in a 100% starter)? Obviously that example is splitting hairs in a way but I enjoy precision most of the time :D
I wonder why it is that I could get those doughs to rise consistently before while using 2% of the dough weight in salt... but regardless I'll give the low-sodium loaf a go as well!
You write that your starter doubles after 12 hours. I believe an active starter should only take a few hours to double, especially at the 82 degree temperature you mentioned. That said, I use a 50/50 white/whole wheat starter so maybe it's different? But I'm looking for a starter that doubles in 4 hours or so. Most people also try to use the starter right before or right after it peaks and feed it a couple times leading up to the bake.
This starter is behaving more lethargically than ones in my past, I keep it at 50% whole dark rye and 50% AP flour. My starters used to almost triple in 6-8 hours and this one has only just started to double within 8 - 10 hours over the last couple feedings. Probably because it is a still a little young! I have a batch of bread going right now so I will keep you updated!
Hi all, sorry for the later-than-anticipated update if any of you are following along. But I had some great results with the third batch of bread I baked! I think I was just rushing it with the bulk fermentation and never letting the yeast really develop the structure of the dough. Also focusing a little more on gluten development up front I think helped (and making sure I was using the starter at the right time in it's cycle). Anyway, here are some pictures of a Thanksgiving bake:
Just signed up for this. Although have been making bread for some years never made a sourdough and if I can make it like yours I will be exceedingly happy! My wife's nephew has his own bakery nr Azay - le - rideau in France so I need to impress him!
I will definitely say you wont find a better community to learn with than this one! Most everything I know about sourdough baking has been gleaned from this site and all these wonderful people are happy to help you along (myself included). Check out the thread on the pineapple juice method for raisin a starter as a great point to begin.