One of my most difficult problems is to get the hydration of my dough right.
There are two possibilities that unfortunately I face every time in the short period that I’ve been trying to bake sourdough bread. I either add too little water and the dough is very elastic and doesn’t handle well at all, or it goes the other way and the dough becomes too wet and sticky. In both cases I cannot get any final rise in the dough.
Are there any tips or hints how to fix this?
Are you using a scale to weigh your ingredients.
I've been at this several years, have always weighed the ingredients and have had few if any issues with hydration causing issues.
I've had issues to say the least, but not with hydration.
I am always using a scale to weigh the ingredients. In fact I hate seeing recipes with quantities given in cup measures!
However, even in video clips where the recipe is given by weight measures, the dough is shown with perfect consistency, but when I try and duplicate the recipe my dough’s consistency is wrong. I can’t believe that the reason for this would be the flour being used in the recipe as opposed to what I use, since I always use bread flour or whatever the recipe calls for.
EDIT: I searched for sticky dough and I found several threads about it. I'll need to study more...
The flour you use can make a huge difference. I prefer to use always the same brand flour, specially when I try something out new. I like eliminate other factors and like to change only one parameter a time.
And I keep a log of every time I bake. And I had issues with water level too.
BTW, I don't read recipes with 'cup' measures, most likely there will be more wrongs in it. Water in ml is borderline for me.
Thanks about the tip on flour. Where I live there aren't all that many choices, so by default I do follow your strategy too.
The flour will make a difference. From brand to brand, and even from bag to bag (from the same maker).
Flour will also absorb moisture (humidity). So if you are in a more humid environment you will likely need to use a little less water than usual. If your in a dry environment, might need to add a little more water.
Keep a detailed log of your bakes. Include the weather, clear/cloudy/rain, and temperature/humidity levels. In time you will develop a sense of just what adjustments need to be made. You can find an inexpensive thermometer/hygrometer at most home supply stores, or the internet. I leave one on my kitchen counter 24/7 so I know which way to adjust the water quantity.
The hydration level called for in the recipe can be thought of as an approximation because no two kitchen environments are alike. Next time you bake, hold back some of the water and get the dough mixed together. If it feels too dry and hard to work with then add a little more water.
What you wrote about the hydration level makes sense, but as a new baker, I'm trying to overcome my insecurities and I tend to adhere to the recipes. Obviously that's not quite the right way to do it. I should try to use more common sense in the future.
This comment by Mini Oven about experimenting with flour and water is a great idea that I'll definitely implement the next time that I bake bread.
Miller, your hydration problem sounds unusual, considering you are weighing your ingredients. Flours, white flour , whole grains, etc. will absorb water at different rates.
First off, please reply with your formula.
Once I see your formula, I will be better able to make suggestions. This should be an easy problem to rectify.
Danny
Danny here's a recipe that I used recently. The bread texture was quite good, but the bread was flat, like a flying saucer! The dough was very wet and sticky. I found the recipe on the Breadit subreddit in Reddit.
I should add that using whole wheat flour is an entirely new experience for me. Am I right in suspecting that the stickiness may be partly due to the presence of whole wheat flour?
Miller, I am assuming that you are new to sourdough and maybe new to bread. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Question - is your dough too wet at the time of mixing or after the dough has finished bulk fermenting?
If I were baking this bread with home ground (100% extraction) the dough would be too dry, by a lot. The 35% whole wheat, depending on the rate of extraction (how much bran and germ is removed or none at all) can make the amount of water tricky. If you aren’t determined to bake that particular bread, we can suggest a bread that will make success much more probable.
If you are willing to try a new bread that is more suited to you, wet/dry dough shouldn’t be a problem. Also, using all white flour will make the bread easier. My thought is, learn to bake the easiest bread possible, until you succeed, then move on to more difficult bakes.
You will probably learn faster if you take the slower approach.
You are correct, the whole wheat flour make things much more difficult. Taking into account the starter, the percentage of whole wheat is 57%. That’s a lot. Whether the whole wheat flour is store bought or home ground, the water requirements are vastly different.
Whada ya say?
Danny
I've been dabbling with baking bread for 7-8 years, but I am totally new to sourdough and as for other kinds of bread I wouldn't call myself experienced given that so far I baked 5-6 times per year. Changed circumstances now allow me more time for baking, hence my multitude of questions.
My dough was too wet right at the start, at the time of mixing. Clearly something had gone wrong and by my following the recipe blindly I didn't predict the problem with sticky dough until it was too late.
I would most certainly be ready to try a bread where wet/dry dough shouldn’t be a problem. The wetness or dryness of dough is my biggest hurdle even if other problems are out there on the learning curve.
Miller, I had intended to recommend the 123 SD, but right now there is a Community Bake in process. If you choose to do the Community Bake (CB) there will be plenty of help available, since others are baking the same bread at this time. If you do decide on the CB, I would start out with the 74% hydration option and would recommend not using the extra hold out water for the first bake. Everyone that has baked this bread so far has had very good results.
The CB is NOT a competition. Rather it is a tool for learning to bake a specific bread better. All skill levels are encouraged, especially new sourdough bakers. We all learn together. I hope you decide to join in, it’s a lot of fun!
Here is the link.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61572/community-bake-featuring-kristen-fullproofbaking
If you need help with anything, don’t hesitate to ask.
Danny
Thank you Danny, I’ll definitely have a look at the Community Bake and will try to participate.
Stick with us, Miller. We’ll get you on the right track...
@Miller,
1) is the resulting bread still too moist after baking? Most formulas using dutch ovens say to remove the lid for a final portion of the bake. Chad Robertson has 3 parts to his bake for dough with a lot of WW: Lid on hot, lid on less hot, lid off less hot. You usually need that lid off in order to get rid of excess moisture, and you don't want the top crust too hard at the point you take the lid off so the moisture doesn't get trapped.
2) lack of rise is not necessarily due to hydration. There are other factors.
a) your levain might not be active/ripe enough.
b) you might not be using enough levain. Different cultures in different starters/levain have enough different charactertistics, that adjustments have to be made from one baker to another. One baker's starter/levain does not equate to another baker's starter/levain, unless it came from the same culture, and is maintained identically, same flours, etc.
c) your bulk and/or proof may be too short. 4 hours combined implies a powerful levain is needed.
d) you may not be making a thick enough or strong enough "skin" via your fold-and-shape procedure, or in your dusting procedure. I have to work a bit to get the dough mass "dusted up" enough to dry out that skin. I use a lot of rice flour. Robertson says to use rice flour, or at least 50% rice flour in a rice flour/wheat flour mix, when dusting the banneton.
--
That you get little/no rise whether you make a wet or less-wet dough strongly hints that more is in play than just hydration.
---
Also, it's best to avoid using chlorinated tap water in feeding your starter, and when mixing the dough. That can affect rise.
Thank you for the information.
I didn’t remove the lid after baking because the loaf had already developed a rather hard crust. I was meaning to uncover the Dutch oven, but it seemed pointless at the time.
My levain is very new, so your comment about it could be valid.
Also, how much levain to use is a question mark for me. I don’t suppose that there is a precise formula, but I would welcome some advice on this matter, for the future.
My bulk and proof times were as per the recipe since I didn’t feel confident enough to veer away from it.
Folding and shaping is one area where I know I need more practice. However, having a wet, sticky dough (or sometimes a dry dough) makes it harder for me to actually fold and shape the dough well enough.