I just recently purchased the book Artisan Sourdough Made Simple: A Beginner's Guide to Delicious Handcrafted Bread with Minimal Kneading. In preparing a loaf I have come to realize that I’m not as fond of the sourdough tang / taste. However I did like the texture, softness and artisan look of the sourdough boules.
So my question is how can I adapt these recipes omitting the starter and using active or instant dry yeast? Each recipe calls for 50 g 100% active starter. Would the correct approach be to remove 25 g flour and 25 g water from the main recipe? And then add the necessary yeast?
Appreciate any advice you can offer.
You're off to a good start with your idea that a 100% hydration poolish would substitute for a starter of the same hydration. You only need to build your poolish to same weight as the starter suggested by the recipe, you needn't subtract anything from the main dough ingredients.One thing to remember is that the timing of the recipe will change. IDY and ADY manage to replicate their spores at a faster rate than a starter does. You'll also have to do some guess work on how much IDY or ADY you want to use. While dry yeast is usually estimated as 2% of the flour weight in straight dough loaves, you'll be better off to record your initial attempt and every one thereafter if you wish to attempt using less yeast. Without seeing the recipe, it's difficult to suggest more than that for you. If you can post the recipe or give us a link to the recipe, it will be easier for people with far more experience than I have to put you on the best path.
I used this exact method to participate in Maurizio's sourdough baguette C.B. At the time I did not have a sour starter. I followed the build amounts and timing for his levein build and spiked it with only an 1/8th teaspoon of IDY. There are photos of the resulting baguettes in my blog.
keep the 25g water and 25g flour and it them back into the recipe but not as starter. So take out the starter and increase both the water and flour by 25g each. Then add enough yeast for a long ferment. Play around with the ferment times for a taste that you're after.
make a yeast water with apples. You will be able to have your wild yeast and eat it too ! All you do is put a coarsely chopped organic Granny Smith apple into a sterilized quart jar with 3c filtered water. Place a lid on loosely and put the jar somewhere that will be 85-90 F for about 5 days. You will need to take it out and stir if vigorously several times a day . It needs oxygen. You will note the apple pieces floating. In a few days you will note a pleasant cider smell. It will be ready to raise your sourdough bread recipes when 50g of the YW mixed with 50g of your flour of choice doubles in about 6 hrs.
Maintenance is very easy. You take out the apple pieces about every 10 days and add new ones. And increase the water at the rate you used it. That's it. There is more and I will be glad to share it with you if you are interested. This makes the loveliest SD bread with no " tang" at all. The other benefit is it stays fresh for days and the crumb is lovely as well. Please consider this before dropping all notions of SD. You can substitute the flour/YW levain in all the recipes in the book. you will discover how long the fermentation time will be and can alter amounts etc as you find your way with the YW levain....just as you would need to do with SD. Good Luck and as if you want more info. c
It's so interesting that you have found the keeping quality to be better from fruit water yeasted bread than from regular bakers yeast bread! I wonder whether there are dissolved soluble fibers that are doing it, like pectin. I thought the good keeping quality of porridge bread was the slow hydration released into the crumb, but maybe it's actually/also a function of those soluble fibers doing something to interfere with staling.
Thank you for posting this nice clear description of how to cultivate and use yeast water in place of sourdough. It certainly sounds like a neat thing to try.
Warmly, Jessica
If you look up what yeast strain is on fruit it’s the same as what is used to produce active dry yeast / bakers yeast/ brewers yeast-- S. cerevisiae. Carbon dioxide is produced as well as alcohol from this yeast which is no surprise when you see what happens if you cap your YW without using an air vented lock! Explosion. You don’t want all that alcohol which is why I stress stirring the YW to cultivate healthy yeast and discourage alcohol... also the acidic orange peel really helps maintain a healthy YW.
As to the freshness I don’t know why. I just know if you look back through the years of my YW bakes not one was missing that component. You are correct that the porridge bread also has great keeping power but for a different reason. When I make a double levain bread and combine the YW levain with my SD levain—- which is a bacteria based levain , lactobacillis , not yeast— I get a consistently less sour bread with the keeping qualities of the YW but I can taste and see the SD qualities as well for sure. They play very nicely together. I’ve even done triple levain as noted in some of my bakes.
I hope others will try this and rather than attempt to understand everything about the process just enjoy it and the experience of sharing information. Happy baking Jess
I'm going to be that questionable rebel who claims that "wild" yeast by itself makes no useful difference - no health benefits, and no change in the bread. The apple water is just busy-work for those with time on their hands. (Like growing wild carrots in your garden - it might be entertaining, but it's not worthwhile.) Sourdough (the real thing) does change the bread. If you want yeast, just get some yeast.
Now you went a did it DavidR. I hope Caroline, aka TrailRunner doesn’t open up a can of whoop-@ss on you. (I am laughing out loud) Y’all do remember Adam Sandler in The Water Boy.
I will be standing by for the replies.
Danny
Please remember, this is in good fun. Let’s not get nasty...
Just saw your post Dan... as I said to David I won't waste anymore time on him and his declarations. You are too kind in your response. Thank you .c
I guess all the research on fermentation and the health benefits are bogus . You obviously haven't done any baking with yeast water or you wouldn't make your astoundingly inaccurate declarations. Saying there is no change in the bread is about as wrong as can be. I started making my Challah recipe in 1975. I made it exactly the same way with ADY for decades. I had a desire to further explore the benefits of using my almost 7 yr old apple yeast water about a 1 1/2 yrs ago and subbed it for all of the water in my Challah recipe and left out all the ADY. An astounding difference in the look, quality and taste of the bread. Everyone who has eaten my Challah all these many years noticed the difference at the first slice. It is SO much improved that I would never ever consider going back to ADY and certainly never make it with straight SD either. Challah is notoriously dry and almost inedible except as bread pudding or croutons or as a grilled cheese sandwich 24 hrs. after baking. My yeast water Challah is incredibly fresh and tender and stays that way for several days after baking.
I won't bother to make anymore arguments for YW.....I have better things to do than discuss it or anything else with a person who has such a closed minded short sighted view . c
For numerous reasons, I rarely get to bake any bread anymore; but the next time I do (no commitments to when), I'm trying the apple water thing. There's obviously something I've completely missed.
OK... What grows in there that makes the most difference?
Hamelman's Swiss Farmhouse Bread with raisin yeast water. Then you'll know what trailrunner is talking about.
i keep meaning to try that bake I’m glad you reminded me. Although I had no success with starting a raisin YW. Apple is so easy and Granny Smith apples make it really easy. They have the perfect sweet/ acid ratio . Thank you for chiming in. c
I believe it'll work just as well with apple yeast water and compliment this lovely recipe. If you wish to try it the raisin way then why not make a raisin yeast water with a tsp of apple yeast water like converting a sourdough starter from one flour to another?
My pleasure :)
I have often converted my YW to the " fruit of the month" :) It really loves banana ! Also dates and figs both used dried. I usually convert to complement the bread I am making so that banana , which has a very distinctive flavor , is always in a banana bread dough and rye also goes well with banana I have several bakes with that combo. I shall give the bread a try and covert to raisin when we use up all the bread in the freezer and when I get back from a short holiday to the coast of Virginia. Thank you Abe c