So disappointed. Flat again!
I really wanted the Ken Forkish Overnight Country Blond to work. But, alas, I think it fell prey to overproofing or at least that’s how it seems. It didn’t pass the “finger-dent” test just before baking. Didn’t spring back when poked. Dough was damp and sticky. The dough spread when placed into the Dutch oven so I kinda knew what was coming. Baked fine but little or no spring. Taste was much more sour than expected.
Easy recipe. 78% hydration. 1 kilo of flour. 22g salt, 250g fresh levain (recipe called for 216g. I added the extra 34g to compensate for cooler kitchen).
Autolayse: 30 min.
14 hours bulk in bowl on bench
4turns (folds) during first two hours.
Shaped & rested in proving baskets 4 hours
In retrospect my kitchen might not have been as cold as I thought so I guess it’s possible that the additional 34g of levain might have a play in all this.
I did forget to flip the boules and fold all the little edges over themselves making the dough into the classic ball shape prior to “tightening” them. But I did tighten using the pushing and pulling method by cupping the hands and dragging. Same as I would have done if I had first flipped and folded all the corners over first. So I did achieve some tension but likely not as much as I would have liked. Got good doubling during bulk and nice rise during the 4 hours of proving. Still I believe the “finger-dent” test and the sticky looseness of the dough would indicate overproofing. Does this seem right? What can I do when I repeat this recipe? I want to do it till I get it right!
Many thanks for helping with one of my most recurring bread baking problems.
Kogaku
volume with Forkish recipes where is time are way, way off for bulk and final proof and that is what you get- flat loaves with no spring. They also use his levain builds which are also really crazy.
... are obviously fine for him - he's not an idiot. The trouble is that going by another person's time on the clock is not going to give you the same results. Bread dough doesn't know what time it is. :)
I followed this recipe tit for tat. Did it by the book. This approach usually makes it easier to diagnose problems after the fact but not so in this case. Does it sound like I’m on the right track with overpfoofing? What might I do when approaching this same recipe next time? Does any one thing stand out or is it somehow a jumble of errors? Does it appear more to be related to handling (mixing, kneading, folding, shaping, etc.) or more like times, temps, percentages, etc.? Have I posted enough info
Hi Kogaku i would suggest that your BF is way too long given the amount of S/D culture In the formula, thats assuming that the S/D culture was good and active. It does confirm that something is not right when the same result is achieved following the same instructions a second time. The percentages all seem in the right range, Sometimes a liitle less Hydration helps with handling and shaping for new comers and increasing that once reasonable success is achieved out of the oven. Did the book call for 14 hours BF on the bench rather than perhaps overnight in the fridge?
Kind regards Derek
thanks for your comments. They are grately helpful. Yes, believe it or not, 15 hours was suggested. Not in the fridge. On the bench at room temp preferably around 70°. I surely thought this meant overnight retard so I made sure that it actually read “on bench covered for up to 15 hours.” Yes, the culture was quite active. Refreshed from fridge (not freezer) 24 hours prior and then refreshed again 8 hours before making final levain. I know it’s likely just a good guess, but do you (or anyone reading this) have a rough notion as to when this dough might actually have been ready to shape and bake?
Kind thanks for indulging me!
Kogaku
Your starter is 25% of your flour weight, which is what I've been using lately as well, though at about 70 % hydration. From the time the levain hit the dough to the moment I decided it was time for an overnight in the fridge, no more than 4 hours has elapsed, probably closer to 3. After the retard, it was taken out and warmed up for maybe 90 minutes before preshape.
Just my two cents, I hope it helps.
Carole
that Forkish’s recipes work exactly as written and that is due to temperature. My kitchen is the same as his - 70-73F. I have the book in front of me and he says that if your kitchen is cooler than 70 degrees, increase the levain from 216 to 250 or 275 g. From your post, it seems that your kitchen is 70 F so you probably shouldn’t have added the extra Levain.
He does also say it should take “about” 4 hours. You need to test it during those 4 hours to see when it is ready. And when it is ready, it needs to go into the oven immediately, not wait for it to preheat (I don’t know if you did).
Forkish pushes his recipes right to the edge with no room for error so one really needs to watch the dough (doubling, tripling, finger test) and not the clock. Next time, trust your gut and bake when you think it’s ready, not when the time is up. It’s actually better to bake a tad early than bake too late where you end up with a pancake.
By the way, it does make a tasty bread and mine was not sour.
ETA- If you want a chuckle, read my post from a few years ago when I added seeds to this recipe. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44911/seed-bread-did-i-ruin-it Made me laugh!
In the case of the Forkish recipe-Overnight Country Blond- is up to 15 hours B/F at 70° realistic? Seems quite long by comparison even to other naturally levained recipes. Then he adds a possible 4 more hours proving after shaping. I’m guessing that dough might have been ready sometime in the middle of the night while I was counting sheep zzzzxzz!
Regards,
Kogaku
He says to let it go until it “is nearly triple” so that’s what you do. Start checking it at 8 hours or so and let it go until it is a cm or 1/2 inch under triple. Straight sided containers help determine this. Your dough might take 8 hours or it might take 12 or more. You got to watch the dough. Forget what Forkish says about times or use them as very, very loose guides. I got lucky. His times worked for me. They don’t for most!
I’ll use your suggestions and try again. I really want to get this one right. Might try using the Rubaud “scooping” method (Trevor Wilson) for the mix instead of Forkish’s “Pincer”. I’ve had good luck with that before with higher hydration doughs.
I naturally meant Rubaud scooping method rather than folding, not rather than pincer.
Thanks for all the helpful information. Now, back to try again!
Kogaku