1: Morning... Build a levain
2: Evening... Mix the dough and refrigerate
3: Next Morning... Stretch and Fold then back in the fridge
4: Next Evening... Shape, short(ish) proof and bake.
About 80% bread flour + 20% whole-wheat, whole spelt or some other wholegrain.
So trying to work out a levain percentage where a 24 hour bulk ferment in the fridge with a short final proof will be feasible.
Thank you.
Is number 2 a shaggy mix for an overnight autolyse? (When does salt enter the picture? Number 3?)
For number 3 is it a single stretch-and-fold?
Both stage 2. Yes, a single stretch and fold but can add in another before refrigerating!
So I've put together a plan (sorry but needed to start sooner rather than later) so here is an outline based on a simple tartine recipe...
Tonight I have mixed together 1 tsp starter + 50g water + 25g whole spelt + 25g bread flour
Will be refrigerated till the morning when I will take it out to mature through the day. Come evening...
Autolyse the flour and water for 20 minutes.
Add the salt and starter - combine.
Give one stretch and fold after a rest then refrigerate.
Next morning another stretch and fold then back into the fridge.
Next evening take out the fridge, shape, final proof and bake.
That's the plan so far... Time will help develop the gluten with two sets of stretch and folds.
Your timing and procedures will be greatly affected by the temperature of your refrigerator. Does your dough generally rise when it is retarding in your frig? My dough does not. I think temps of very near 3C (38F) will keep your dough from rising much, but above 4-5C (40-41F) I would expect some rising. - I’m sure to know this Abe, but others may benefit. -
My Bad; I just noticed in your latest reply that you plan to proof at RT while at work.
A good way to measure the temp of your frig is to take a reading in a glass of water that has been in there for a few hours. Testing ambient temps could be tricky. Once the door is opened the temps will begin to fluctuate.
Dan
For the whole duration of the bulk ferment. The fermentation at room temperature was the starter build which I prepared last night and took out this morning. That is now maturing while I'm at work.
Question for tonight is...
Do I go for 20% starter and do a 24 hour bulk ferment in the fridge. Or...
About 5% starter for an all night bulk ferment at room temperature then shape the dough in the morning for a final proof in the fridge while I'm at work?
I know you are looking for an educated guess. What do eastimate your RT overnight? 5% sounds plausible, but the only way to know is to try.
Does your dough rise when retarded in the refrigerator? For me, this would greatly affect the amount of Levain.
Dan
I know you are looking for an educated guess. What do you estimate your RT overnight? 5% sounds plausible, but the only way to know is to try.
Does your dough rise when retarded in the refrigerator? For me, this would greatly affect the amount of Levain.
Dan
How much it rises in the fridge I have to still pinpoint exactly why some doughs do better than others. I'm also contemplating going with the original recipe and keeping it in the fridge till it has risen to the optimal amount be it 12-24-36 hours etc.
I'm sure dropping the starter % for an all night ferment, even if it doesn't fully bulk ferment in that time, and finishing off in the fridge would work too.
So many options!
Have you checked out TXCraigs predictive model on time and temperature https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.0. That might get you going in the right direction. I use 100% home milled wheat, so I doubt my results would be helpful to you.
I’ve looked at that before, Barry. My major concern with the data is this. Starters have very different characteristics. Some grow faster, some rise more, etc. How can 1 starter be equally compared to another? Currently I am feeding two distinct starters on the counter, never refrigerated. They are both fed the same flour, same hydration, fermented side by side, and handled exactly the same. They behave consistently different, very different.
I have always doubted that data. But maybe I’m missing something, I often do :(
What do you think? - I am forever open to learn. I love this bread baking journey :)
At this time (until I learn better) I believe it’s best to know your starter. After feeding it on the counter twice a day for many months, I have become pretty familiar with it.
Dan
I've just taken a quick look at that graph and I know for sure that these timings will be greatly different to what I would find.
I've gotten to know how my starter performs at room temperature with an X amount of starter and I wouldn't be able to get away with those fermentation times.
I agree that each starter will act differently, it is just a starting point for experimentation, and as Craig says
changes in culture, hydration, salinity, dough mass, etc. will likely affect the fermentation time
The chart might be able to be adjusted for an individual’s starter. What do you think about running a few test with your starter, determining the time difference, then averaging the data. This could be done in Excel that would update all data at once, when the offset was entered.
I am reasonable familiar with my starter, but it might be a project worth pursuing.
Dan
Hi Abe.. I'm interested in your schedule as it would work well around my work schedule.. have you given it a try and made bread according to the timeline you set out? If yes, how did it go? Thanks..
Worked a treat! The plan came together as I was making the dough. Sometimes I get a better success this way. You can find the result here
Hope you like it and find a way to suit your needs.