Hi all,
I've been trying to make sourdough for some time but overall I'm really not having much luck. However, today's just taken the cake (no pun intended). Please can someone give me some insight on what went wrong?
I made up my dough using starter that had split but smelled quite fruity. Not sure if that's relevant - I don't think so, actually - but I'm just trying to give any information that will get this conversation started. The recipe I followed is for white sourdough and is fairly thin. It's currently 22 degrees in my part of the world, so as far as I understand it's a good temperature to let dough prove. The dough is a bit thin and sticky, but just about workable. I kneaded it for about 15 minutes and managed to develop some spring. Perhaps not enough, but the same happened when I made the same dough a month ago: some spring developed but no matter how long I kneaded for, it never developed a great amount of spring. Could it be that dough tends to be thinner when you're working at a higher temperature? This never seemed to happen in winter, when I was working in a temperature of about 17-18 degrees. Then I put it in a proving bowl and left it for 4.5 hours while I tended to some other tasks.
I came back to it to see that it hadn't expanded at all, and tipped it out to prepare it for a second proving. It was thinner than when I'd left it - it just absolutely stuck to my hands, the worktop, my scraper, everthing - and I had absolutely no chance of working it into a round. Plus it didn't spring back when I tried kneading it. That's the bit I'm finding really confusing. I didn't realise dough could do that.
It's, um, proving now - or sitting doing whatever the hell it's chosen to do this time - and I'll bake it later just because I've started making it now. But I've got a funny feeling it's not going to turn out very well at all.
Sorry to be a tad negative about this, I'm just really disappointed. I thought I'd have nailed bread baking by now. I've given it about 8 tries, and a lot of those times I couldn't get the dough into a warm enough place to get it to rise.
Zombie, if possible, pictures would be a great help. Also, please provide the recipe. We are going to need more information in order to help you.
Sourdough baking can be a challenge. Give us as much information as you can, we’re here to help.
We also need information about your starter. How it is fed, the feed ratio (starter, water, and flour), type of flour, how often fed, height of rise, refrigerated or not, etc.. Be as specific as you can.
Dan
While Dan is right that it is hard to pinpoint what is happening here, I have a feeling your starter does not have proper leavening power.
Lets talk about this 'thin' dough stuff. Do you mean wet dough? The dough is more like batter? This is why you can't get enough 'spring' or gluten development in your dough by mixing. That's okay, wet doughs are supposed to develop strength through stretch and folds during bulk fermentation (which you didn't do), and proper shaping. You seemed surprised by how wet your dough was, which tells me you might be using a different flour, or a different batch that is not as moisture absorbative. If this happens to you, feel free to adjust your recipe and method (more flour, less water, wet dough treatment).
All that being said, even if you'd done a shitty job mixing, no stretch and folds, and your dough was just too wet, you should have gotten fermentation, a lot of it. Wet dough ferments faster, as does dough that is left alone. It should have been easier to shape and handle with all the gas in it after the 4.5 hours. Clearly, your starter is to blame for that.
Try rehabilitating it. Make it so it triples within 6 hours. Regularly. Then try your method again. I bet you'll get a much better result, even if the dough seems too wet to handle.
When you describe thin, sticky dough and starter that has split (I assume you mean separated, with some liquid on the top), and no visible rise during the bulk ferment stage, you are describing a mixture of flour and water with very little active yeast. It sounds like your starter has not been well-enough fed recently and has no ooomph. It might have lots of nice bacteria (hence the fruity smell), but bacteria are not going to make bread rise. Also, you might be working with too high of a hydration.
Here's something to try - take a small amount (say, 5 grams) of your starter and feed it at least 20 grams of flour and 20 grams of water. Let it sit until it is light and bubbly. Then take 5 grams of this and again feed it 20 grams of flour and 20 grams of water. Put this mixture in a clear, straight-sided container and mark the level of the top of the mixture. See how long it takes it to double, or even triple in height. Look for lots of bubbles on the sides and bottom of the mixture. When this has at least doubled, and has lots of bubbles, take 20 grams of this and add 30 grams of water and 50 grams of flour. It will be a stiffer mixture which will a) give the yeast more food, and b) give more strength to your final dough.
Once you've got this 100 grams of fairly stiff, active starter, mix in 200 grams of water and 300 grams of flour. Add 6 grams of salt and mix well. You can add a touch more water if you want a softer dough, but don't go overboard. Mix and develop as usual (you mention 'kneading' the dough - do this if it works for you). Then let the ball of dough sit for enough time to nearly double in size. If this is hard to judge, put a small ball of the dough in a straight-sided glass, mark the level of the top and watch for it to double in size. If the dough still seems a bit rough or not strong enough, you can do some gentle stretch and folds, about 20 minutes to 30 minutes apart, to see if it gets more smooth and strong. But let it sit undisturbed for at least 2 hours after the last one.
Once it has doubled, tip it out onto the bench, do a final stretch and fold (gently), let it rest for a bit then shape into a tight ball. Let it do a final proof until it passes the poke test (poke it gently with a floured finger or knuckle; if the dent springs back only partially and slowly, it's ready to bake). Make sure the oven is all ready to go before the dough passes this point.
I know this is a lot of detail, and you may be already doing some of these things, but it's not stated in your post so I'm just putting down a lot of general advice along with the specific point about your starter not being strong enough. Hope this all helps!
Agree with above.
You should feed your starter many times untill it bubbles. The final starter should float in water because of all the bubbles in it. This is a way to tell if your starter is active enough to use.
When you use active starter your dough will double in size, given time.
If your proving fails again, then you can rescue the dough by activating some commercial yeast and mixing it into the dough and prove again. Sure to rise. Just make sure that the yeast is kept away from your starter othrewise it will become infected.
Try again with an active starter.