Hello from Sydney! I've been making no knead sourdough for a while and the loaves shrink quite significantly after I've removed the cover and continue the bake for 15 more minutes. Does anyone have any idea why, and how to stop it? Thanks.
2 likely causes. If it shrinks evenly, that generally means it was overproofed, and collapsed before it was cooked enough to hold its shape. If it collapsed in the center, especially if it is a pan, that suggests the hydration was too high. This is a great illustration of excessive hydration http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/37117/collapse-loaf-top
3rd possibility, though unlikely, If it had one part that was high, and shrank back in just that area, but not the center, it as also possible you had a shaping issue, and you had a large gas bubble in that area.
In general, you want to put the loaf in the oven when it is in the range of 85 to 90% proofed ( though how you can tell that is way beyond my skill level) That way it continues to expand in volume, aka oven spring, while it is baking, then solidifies during the baking process.
Thanks for your reply. No knead is always really high hydration. One of the cloches I'm using is a long rectangular one, and perhaps it's that shape causing the problem. The other cloche is round and that produces fine bread. Maybe I should use the rectangular one only for baking the usual stretch and fold loaves.
As Dan says, a photo would help. Interesting you mention two cloches - I was looking at the Sassafras cloches just the other day. Actually, if the bread in the rectangular one is the one that is drooping, that would run counter to my thought that hydration was the problem. Did you see the photo in the link I posted? This is a link to a photo of an over hydrated loaf. https://dpiw4yg3ny-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/homemade-multigrain-bread-wheat-3.jpg While a crumb shot would really help us, we can guess that it would show a nice open crumb in the areas right next to the sides, and in the middle it would look very dense. I assume it was baked in a pan, so that the sides of the loaf stuck to the pan a little, and held that part of the crumb open, but the parts in the middle had no support, and collapsed due to the weight of the water. Your suggestion on the round cloche hints in the opposite direction. Usually, you place the dough on the flat part of the cloche, then add the lid, but the sides of the dough are not in any way supported by the sides of the cloche, so you wouldn't get anything like a collapse shown in the linked photo. Instead, it sounds more like overproofing to me.
The bread doesn't sink, it shrinks.The cloche is 37cmx13cm. I preheat it at 220c and, when added, the dough fills it completely, has risen beautifully when I remove the lid after 30 mins, then after another 15 mins, the bread is cooked and golden, but only 32cms long, and thinner. This is probably because the excess hydration is removed. Perhaps being a long, narrow loaf I'm cooking it too long, although it's really nice bread . Although as it's feeding a horde of teenaged grandsons who'll eat anything, maybe it's not so good!
On thinking it through, I'll try cooking it covered for only 20mins, then remove the lid.
Thank you both - you've helped me centre my thoughts. I'll let you know if this is the solution.
It occurs to me that we never got your formula or recipe. Maybe if you posted your entire procedure we could be more definitive.
The thing that really stomps me is you say if you bake the same dough in a round it rises properly.
Let us know as much as possible about how to mix, handle the dough, shape and set up to proof. Times and temperatures would be great. Yell us everything you can.
Pictures of both baking vessels might help. We want to see you bake loaves that not only taste good, but look great!
Yeah, it always shrinks as it cools or, how about that! You can't sell bread in France until it's been out of the oven for a minimum of 20 minutes due mostly to the loss in weight as the bread cools and somewhat due to the fact that the loaves do shrink (more than just a little bit). It is dependent on the bake temperature - the higher the bake temperature the more the shrinkage.
I think you should do all of us a favor and measure this with a tape measure - or better yet we should all yield up a measurement next time we pull a hot loaf out and then again 20 minutes latter (and at what baking temperature)...,
2 likely causes. If it shrinks evenly, that generally means it was overproofed, and collapsed before it was cooked enough to hold its shape. If it collapsed in the center, especially if it is a pan, that suggests the hydration was too high. This is a great illustration of excessive hydration http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/37117/collapse-loaf-top
3rd possibility, though unlikely, If it had one part that was high, and shrank back in just that area, but not the center, it as also possible you had a shaping issue, and you had a large gas bubble in that area.
In general, you want to put the loaf in the oven when it is in the range of 85 to 90% proofed ( though how you can tell that is way beyond my skill level) That way it continues to expand in volume, aka oven spring, while it is baking, then solidifies during the baking process.
Thanks for your reply. No knead is always really high hydration. One of the cloches I'm using is a long rectangular one, and perhaps it's that shape causing the problem. The other cloche is round and that produces fine bread. Maybe I should use the rectangular one only for baking the usual stretch and fold loaves.
A picture would be helpful.
As Dan says, a photo would help. Interesting you mention two cloches - I was looking at the Sassafras cloches just the other day. Actually, if the bread in the rectangular one is the one that is drooping, that would run counter to my thought that hydration was the problem. Did you see the photo in the link I posted? This is a link to a photo of an over hydrated loaf. https://dpiw4yg3ny-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/homemade-multigrain-bread-wheat-3.jpg While a crumb shot would really help us, we can guess that it would show a nice open crumb in the areas right next to the sides, and in the middle it would look very dense. I assume it was baked in a pan, so that the sides of the loaf stuck to the pan a little, and held that part of the crumb open, but the parts in the middle had no support, and collapsed due to the weight of the water. Your suggestion on the round cloche hints in the opposite direction. Usually, you place the dough on the flat part of the cloche, then add the lid, but the sides of the dough are not in any way supported by the sides of the cloche, so you wouldn't get anything like a collapse shown in the linked photo. Instead, it sounds more like overproofing to me.
Thank you both for your replies.
The bread doesn't sink, it shrinks. The cloche is 37cmx13cm. I preheat it at 220c and, when added, the dough fills it completely, has risen beautifully when I remove the lid after 30 mins, then after another 15 mins, the bread is cooked and golden, but only 32cms long, and thinner. This is probably because the excess hydration is removed. Perhaps being a long, narrow loaf I'm cooking it too long, although it's really nice bread . Although as it's feeding a horde of teenaged grandsons who'll eat anything, maybe it's not so good!
On thinking it through, I'll try cooking it covered for only 20mins, then remove the lid.
Thank you both - you've helped me centre my thoughts. I'll let you know if this is the solution.
Lovely Autumn day here.
It occurs to me that we never got your formula or recipe. Maybe if you posted your entire procedure we could be more definitive.
The thing that really stomps me is you say if you bake the same dough in a round it rises properly.
Let us know as much as possible about how to mix, handle the dough, shape and set up to proof. Times and temperatures would be great. Yell us everything you can.
Pictures of both baking vessels might help. We want to see you bake loaves that not only taste good, but look great!
Dan
Yeah, it always shrinks as it cools or, how about that! You can't sell bread in France until it's been out of the oven for a minimum of 20 minutes due mostly to the loss in weight as the bread cools and somewhat due to the fact that the loaves do shrink (more than just a little bit). It is dependent on the bake temperature - the higher the bake temperature the more the shrinkage.
I think you should do all of us a favor and measure this with a tape measure - or better yet we should all yield up a measurement next time we pull a hot loaf out and then again 20 minutes latter (and at what baking temperature)...,
Wild-Yeast