Hello,
My starter has been active for three or four days now. I have been slowly trying to wean it off of rye flour, but every time I try feeding with 100% white, it doesn't gas up properly, it doesn't double, maybe just rises 30% or so, with tiny bubbles.
I would be okay feeding the starter with 15% rye, 85% white, but the problem is, when I use the starter to make bread, it is very slow to ferment, if it ferments at all. I made some pizza dough, which was 20% whole wheat, and the recipe said it needed 2 hours outside the fridge, and 12 in the fridge, but it took 5 hours outside the fridge and 24 hours in.
Then I made a sourdough loaf which, according to the recipe, takes 4 hours to bulk ferment. It has been sitting on the counter for 8 hours now, and looks like it is just beginning to ferment.
So, what do you guys think is going on? Is my starter just not strong enough yet? Thanks for your help.
PS: for all the detail fiends, I use Gold medal unbleached flour, some fine ground rye I got from the bulk bin at Whole Foods, and in my breads I use KA whole wheat. My house sits around 72-76F, and I always use distilled water for bread and starter making.
As I understand it, distilled water is mineral free. While its purity sounds good, there are some components that you would find in spring water that help your yeast growth. Substitute some spring water that you can find in most supermarkets or Walmart type stores. It's inexpensive at around a dollar for a gallon and if it doesn't work, you can always drink it or use it when making coffee or tea. I'm using the filtered water from my refrigerator tap and it works just fine for my starter or the water in my main dough. Give the spring water a chance to help your starter gain strength over a 10-14 day period. Four days usually isn't enough to establish an active starter.
Is this a new starter? How old is your starter? How are you feeding it. How many times is it fed per day. Tell us about your starter so we can better help
Dan
Dan, it is a new starter. It 'activated' about 4 days ago. I feed it every 12 hours or so, but really just when it starts to fall, which can take 14-15 hours sometimes. I feed it, at the moment, 15%rye, 85% white flour, at 100% hydration, with 50% starter/flour weight, so for example: 85g white, 15g rye, 50g starter, 100g water.
Sounds like you’ve done your research. Is this your first starter? I’m wondering if you have experience in this area.
What do you mean when you say “it activated about 4 days ago”?
The more we know, the better help we can provide.
Dan
Dan,
This is not my first starter. The first one I made was last summer, by the Reinhart method. It was great, very strong, and produced really good breads with consistency. During the fall, I was away for a while, and the remaining starter I had in the fridge looked bad, so I tossed it, and started again, trying the Reinhart method. It was cold by this time, and this may have something to do with the varied results, I don't know.
But since then, I have had very inconsistent results. In addition to the Reinhart PJ method, I've tried Maurizio Leo's (theperfectloaf) starter method, and others like it. I used that method to start this one. But every time I try to switch to pure white flour feeds, the starter 'stumbles'. It gasses up a little, but not nearly like it does with a good amount (25% or more) of rye. And when I try to make bread with it, I get very inconsistent results.
When I say 'activated', I mean that the starter gasses up properly. With the method I use, it gasses up like this at the very beginning, because of bacteria and other yeasts maybe, but after consistent feedings for 7 or 8 days, it gasses up again, the texture changes to a 'fizzy' instead of 'sludgy' texture, and you can make bread with it. This is what I call 'activated'. It took 7 days for this starter to activate for me.
I’m not sure what to advise. I’ll check with Abe, aka Lechem. He is very good with advice like this.
Dan
Rye will absorb more water and be much thicker than bread flour at the same hydration. What you might be experiencing is a change in its behaviour due to different properties. If the hydration is high and you're using bread flour it's might make lots of smaller bubbles.
So next question... What is the hydration of your starter?
There is also an opinion that a different flour might "shock" a starter (although I've never experienced this) and perhaps a gradual changeover is required. I've never had this issue so can't advise much other than to try.
If your starter was very hydrated you might wish to also lower the hydration.
If it is playing up then better to allow it to do stuff in its own time rather than overfeed to speed it up.
I’m with Lechem. I can feed my starter any flour I choose and it doesn’t miss a beat. Although, as Lechem alluded, different flours and/or whole grains can have a drastic affect on the rise. For example, whole rye grows outrageously fast, but the rise is not as high. You’ll see large pockets of air in your starter if you have it in a clear container that will allow you to see through the sides. In my experience my highest rise is obtained with either bread or All Purpose flour. But it will not grow as fast. Fast is not always good. Ideally, you want your starter to grow and just recede at 12 hr.. Starters have many variations and are extremely customizable.
This is how Debra Wink got me on the straight and narrow. Debra is a known authority on starters. If you want, try this with a small portion of your starter. Get a somewhat narrow drinking glass. I use a 6oz juice glass because it is easy to estimate the growth in the small vessel. Take 5g of your starter + 15g water + 25g All Purpose flour. If you have King Arthur use it, if not whatever to have on hand. You’ll have to knead it by hand a little while to form a small ball. I put it on the counter and roll it under my hands. The goal is to begin to develop the gluten and also to completely hydrate all of the flour. Try tp put it in a warm spot that is not hotter than 78F. Periodically keep an eye on it. Take a mark-a-lot and mark the glass at the beginning level and record the time. As it grow you may want to mark the glass the same way. The ink can be removed later by scrubbing. It will rise and the stand still for a while and not rise but it won’t fall. You want to record the time and level (on the glass) when it starts to recede.
This will tell us quite a bit about the strength of your starter. The eventual goal is to get your starter to cycle from feed to recede in 12 hours. That way you only feed twice a day. If you accomplish this you will have a starter that is strong in lifting power.
Dan
Marking the level on the glass with a rubber band works great. If you're trying to be uber-scientific, you can use a piece of masking tape with the date and time marked on it. Both are instantly removable, and no ink to scrub off.
--Mike
Thanks everyone. And Lechem, I use 100% hydration starter. I'll take it all under advisement, and report my results.
How is your starter doing?
I'm new on sourdough and had the same problem, it got solved when I had gone for vacation, my starter was weak with white flour and I was going to leave it for 20 days, so I fed it and left in the fridge. Seems like it was just a question of time. After 30 days, approximately, i took it out, refreshed and got very surprised when it raised like never before, since this i have no problem with my starter and i'm getting very good results with my breads. Maybe you don't need 30 days, maybe much less, like 3-4 days out of the fridge without feeding it, i don't known, just an idea.