Help! My cold ferment is rising too fast. I am making Hamelman's Five Grain with Levain. I'm using the version that does not include any yeast. He says that if you want to retard the ferment, then don't use the additional yeast and place in refrigerator for 12 - 16 hours.
My dough has been refrigerated (bottom shelf) for about 7 hours now and it looks like it will be ripe in a few hours.
Is there anything I can do to lengthen the cold ferment?
I thought about doing another stretch and fold. But not sure.
NOTE: this is a new flour/water levain and it's good to know it is working so well
If you have retarded the dough at the bulk ferment stage then I wouldn't worry. Just carry on with shaping and final proofing at the recommended time. If you have retarded the dough at the final proofing stage then it might need to be reshaped and proofed again. I don't think it'll over ferment but it might over proof (there is a difference).
Lechem, you said, "I don't think it'll over ferment but it might over proof (there is a difference)"
I am retarding at the final bulk ferment.
Let me know if I have this right. I think over proofing would mean that the yeast have expended their gas and the bread can no longer rise.
Please describe over fermenting. I think that proofing refers to shaped loaves and ferment refers to bulk or unshaped dough. Is this correct?
By-the-way; thanks for the many replies that you've made to my post. I appreciate your help!
Often interchanged as proofing is the result of fermenting.
Over fermenting is the yeasts running out of food.
Over proofing is when the dough rises too much and can't contain the gas.
If a dough is over proofed it doesn't always mean the yeasts have run out of food.
That is why it wouldn't matter if your dough is not shaped yet. But if it is shaped and it's over proofed but not over fermented then you can reshape.
If you refrigerated within the time advised I do not think it'll over ferment. Over proof, maybe!.
My pleasure. Apologise for any typos as I've just put in some eye drops.
dough to get cold and slow things down. Now that it is cold, it won't do too much. I am assuming that you are doing a retarded bulk ferment as opposed to a retarded final shaped proof.
I sometimes spray the inside of a plastic food storage bag lightly with oil. Then I plop the dough in the bag and flatten it as much as possible. This does two things: first, the thinner cross section of the dough cools faster than it would if in a boule shape and second, it also squeezes most of the air out of the bag before the bag is closed. That leaves more room for the dough to expand without overfilling the bag.
Paul
Never thought of a bag for bulk retarding. I've always used a container. The bag could really make storage in a tight refrigerator easier since it may fit in a tighter shelf space.
Thanks for the tip
Dan,
I have the first edition of Hamelman's book, and I have made this recipe at least 25 times. My version says to retard after shaping, and that is what I have always done and it comes out perfect every time. I have retarded for as short as 7 hours and as much as 20 and peel into the oven directly from the refrigerator without much difference.
Not that retarding the bulk ferment is wrong, I have never tried it. I'd be curious how it turns out.
-Brad
You've opened my eyes. I always read and re-read instructions of any sort. And in spite of many readings of the same instruction, I'm prone to miss things. I read right over the part that says to divide the dough and THEN cold retard.
So after mixing you bulk ferment, then divide and shape, and then final fermentation for me (since I use no yeast) is 2 hours at room temperature with 1 fold. He states that the bread can cold ferment overnight, which I take to mean 12 hours.
Question- Do you put the shaped loaves in a banneton after the divide and shape? If not, how do they hold there shape?
Question 2 - You say that you've cold retarded for up to 20 hours. Was this because of a slow rise? Or is the dough forgiving enough that the timing of the bake is flexible? Can I bake the same dough at either 12 hours or 18?
Question 3 - It seems Hamelman is writing to professional bakers and therefore his instructions are not as detailed and a book aimed at the home baker. I've been baking for a while, but I can use all the hand holding I can get. The instructions imply that when ready to bake, you remove them from the refrigerator, slash, and bake. Is this correct? Doesn't the dough benefit from taking the chill off?
Last Question - If the dough is placed in bannetons do you put them in seam up or seam down?
I appreciate your reply. By-the-way; the bread to unbelievably good. But I'm a perfectionist and always looking to do better.
Dan,
The mantra on TFL, which no doubt you've seen before, is "watch the dough, not the clock." The 2 hour / 1 fold should be a starting point, and adjust as necessary. Hamelman, I find, is pretty accurate for my relatively cool ambient conditions in San Francisco. I understand that the 2nd edition is more geared to the home baker, but I haven't compared the two.
I don't use any baskets or forms for this bread. I shape them into logs and place the free-form loaves seam down on parchment on an inverted sheet pan, then place the works in a food-grade plastic bag to refrigerate. The dough is very forgiving. I've almost never seen it fail to have a nice oven spring. I have tried warming it for an hour before peeling into the oven and the spring is definitely not as good. I do steam it a bit longer (15 min.) because since the dough is cold it takes a bit longer to reach its peak spring.
This is one of our favorite breads. There is almost never a time when I don't have some frozen we like it so much, and we just toast slices from the freezer. Yes, sometimes it has a little freezer burn so it is not optimal, but the taste is not compromised. That's why I use the log shape - to keep the size just right for the toaster. BTW, I often use the leftover whey from making yogurt cheese instead of water in the final mix. I'm not sure it affects the taste much, but it is one way to use up the whey. [There's a pun in there somewhere, I think ;-).]
-Brad
Brad, doesn't the free form loaves spread out quite a bite if you cold retard for a long time? How do they hold their shape over many hours?
These loaves don't spread for me. The Hamelman recipes I have tried generally work without tweaking. I do get quite a bit of spreading on Tartine- or Forkish-style loaves, high hydration and pushing the fermentation envelope to the max. That said, I have a couple of observations about why lower hydration loaves such as this spread. It could be insufficient development of the dough. I do this bread by machine and it takes a full 10 minutes on speed 2 (KA) to be done. The second major cause is overfermation where the dough goes into proteolysis and the glutens start breaking down. I think the hardest thing to develop a sense for is when to stop fermentation. Slight underfermentation will give a stable dough at the expense of a little flavor so is the way to go for most bakers.
-Brad