85% hydration. First attempt I had some issues handling the dough, but the second time was much better. The dough is a bit "fluid" (as I guess you'd expect with that hydration), but it set up reasonably quickly on the stone. Is there any way to coax a "rounder" (more like a ball) boule from this type of dough, or will they always tend to be a bit slack?
Thanks!
Starter and/or fermenting issues.
More info will be needed. From starter build through method.
Hi Lechem,
My starter is a mature and active starter (doubles at 68F in about 4-5 hours) that's fed and maintained properly. It is only mildly acidic (pH ~ 4.0) but has good flavor.
I'm using KA bread flour.
-I do a 6 hour autolyse with most the water and all the flour.
-25% starter added with salt after autolyse. Worked in with a bit of vigorous kneading/mixing.
-4-5 stretches over next few hours.
-Pre-shape and rest and then shape and rise in linen-lined bowl. (I have decent hand skills and don't find this dough too hard to handle.)
-Baking on a stone with a cloche, not in dutch oven.
I've tried the proof both retarded 12+ hours and at room temp with similar results.
I've played with hydrations between 75% - 85% and I guess I'm just wondering if these very hydrated doughs are just this slack if they are baked on a stone? I could bake in a pie tin or something to give it a bit more structure if that would help. The shape is not displeasing, but my 70% hydration breads just have much more of a rounded shape. (pic attached is of a 68% hydration pain de campagne.)
Thank you!
I'm more concerned with the gaping holes. This seems to me to be something wrong with the starter build and/or fermenting times.
1. Are you sure your starter is fully mature after 4-5 hours? Unless you were baking and feeding it everyday and it's kept at room temperature being fed 1:1:1 or less then 4-5 hours may be jumping the gun a tad. What makes you sure its ready when you use it? Certainly if you bake less often and keep it in the fridge then I highly doubt it'd be mature.
2. 25% starter but for how long did you do the bulk ferment. At room temperature (and a mature starter) mine would be done in 3-4 hours. How long are you talking about? Was your dough ready or overly done?
3. Did you place the linen lined bowl in plastic so the skin of the dough doesn't dry out and did you proof correctly (just under doubled).
4. Proofing at room temp would depend on how much starter used but you say 12+ hours for retard "and" at room temp. How long at room temp? And even retarding doesn't give an infinite amount of time. Generally 8-12 hours is the norm.
1. yeah I feed it 2-3 X / day and it's pretty active. It generally reaches the "drop" stage around hour 7-8 (doubling then dropping back a bit) so I think it's pretty much ready to go.
2. yes... 3-4 hours, but with gentle folds in between.
3. Yes and yes.
4. Room temp doesn't take long at all. Maybe 2-3 hours after forming. Retarding we're looking at 8-12 hours... 18 at the outside. Interestingly enough, I get same results with room temp or retarded.
I'm actually going for the big holes here... My understanding of the "tartine style" is that we're looking for gigantic open holes in the crumb, so this is what I've been working toward via handling/hydration... it's just the overall shape of the loaf that I'd like to tweak.... though i realize this may not be doable at this hydration baking free form on a stone.
Thank yoU!
Make a batch of bread exactly as you do now, up to the point of shaping. Then, shape one loaf per your current practice. Shape a second loaf from the same batch in more or less the same way but be slightly more vigorous in degassing the dough; just enough to break up the bigger bubbles. Sounds counter-intuitive, I know, but the aim is to have a more even distribution of bubbles throughout the crumb. They'll be plenty big enough if the bread is baked at the optimal point of the final fermentation. My guess is that the second loaf with the more assertive degassing might just have a higher profile because the expansion will be more uniform throughout the dough.
Then again, I might be totally off base. Only one way to find out.
Paul
I think you're onto something here, and I wonder if I'm simply overproofing a bit. I did a batch today and tried to push the proof just a bit longer... and... the bread collapsed on the stone. I think that's pretty clear evidence that I'm right at the edge of overproofing, if not actually there
I like your idea of being a bit "rougher" with the dough in the shaping. I'll do that and let you know.