(The following started as a blog, but I've had enough questions and comments about it that I thought I'd repost it as a forum entry so it would be easier to find. Of course, if Floyd wants to add it to Lessons, that would be OK, too.)
Like many people, I found TFL in my quest to learn how to make sourdough. I had a starter going and was sure I had killed it. The advice I found here gave me the knowledge and confidence to make a starter that I've been using for months now, with ever-better results.
Although there is a wealth of information here, there was no one source that detailed the method I used, which was based on Reinhart's "barm" in BBA. Now that I have succeeded in making several starters, I've been thinking about making a video tutorial to walk through the process step-by-step, day-by-day. My own experience and that of others here has taught me one thing: sourdough starters don't read baking books, so they don't know how they are "supposed" to behave. I could have been spared the angst, the wasted time, and of course, pounds of precious flour, if only I had known what to expect and what to look for.
I don't have the technical part of video-making worked out yet, so I have decided to do a tutorial blog. This will be a real test, as I am trying out a modified starter that I haven't made before. It's still based on Peter's starter, but I have altered the amounts, and possibly the times, to suit my own fancy. If all goes well, I will end up with a more reasonable (i.e., much smaller) amount of starter, and I will get there with much less wasted flour.
So here goes:
Day 1:
Ingredients: 1/3 cup rye flour and 1/4 cup water
For the flour, I use stone-ground rye. Nothing special, just what I got from the grocery store. My water is tap water run through a filter. Before I had a filter on my sink, I used bottled drinking water.
Mix the flour and water in a bowl. It will be thick and pasty, kind of like the oatmeal that's left in the pot if you don't come down for breakfast on time.
Once all the flour is mixed in, put it in a pint-sized or larger container and cover with plastic wrap. Leave it out on the counter.
And that's it for today.
Day 2:
Ingredients: 1/4 cup unbleached AP, bread, or high gluten flour; 1/8 cup water
There should be little, if any, change in the culture from yesterday. Again, I'm not really particular about the flour. I would just recommend staying away from bleached flour. I am using AP flour for this batch.
Mix the flour, water, and all of the starter from yesterday in a bowl. It will still be thick but a little wetter than yesterday.
Put it back in the container (no need to wash it), press it down as level as you can get it, and mark the top of the culture with a piece of tape on the outside of the container.
Put the plastic wrap back on top, and you're finished.
Day 3:
Ingredients: 1/4 cup unbleached AP, bread, or high gluten flour; 1/8 cup water
Around Day 3 or 4, something happens that puts terror in the heart of the amateur sourdough maker: they get a whiff of their starter. When you check your starter on Day 3, you may notice a strange, and not at all pleasant, odor. And unless you know better (which you will now), you'll swear something is drastically wrong. In fact, I would venture to guess that that smell has been the ruin of more amateur sourdough growers than anything else. It's an acrid, sour, almost rotten smell, and it's perfectly normal. And rest assured, your new baby sourdough starter will soon outgrow it. So, take heart, and press on.
You may also notice that your starter has begun to come to life. It probably won't grow a lot, maybe 50%, but you will start to see bubbles, like these:
Regardless of the amount of growth, stir down your starter, throw out about half (no need to measure, just eyeball it), and mix the rest with today's flour and water. You will get a slightly more doughy-looking mass:
Once it's well mixed, put it back in the container (still no need to wash), pat it down, and move your tape to again mark the top of the starter. From this point forward, keep your starter at a moderate room temperature, 70-72 degrees F. Lower is OK (it will just grow more slowly); but don't keep it at a higher temperature, or you will encourage the growth of the bacterial beasties at the expense of the yeasty beasties.
Put the plastic wrap back on the container, and take the rest of the evening off. You worked hard today.
Day 4:
Ingredients: 1/4 cup unbleached AP, bread, or high gluten flour; 1/8 cup water
And now, a word about measurements. If you bake regularly, or even if you've just been nosing around baking sites for a while, you are no doubt aware that the ingredients in most artisan bread recipes are listed by weight rather than volume. I measure by weight for my baking and for maintaining my sourdough starter.
You might wonder why, then, am I using volume measurements here? Two reasons: first, I have tried to make this starter as simple to follow as possible -- no special tools, no monkeying around with the scales, just a couple of measuring cups and a bowl. And, when it comes to starting a starter, the measurements aren't as critical as when you actually go to bake with it. So for now, we're just using measuring cups.
Today is another one of those days where novice sourdough starter makers often lose heart. Your starter is now coming to life, and like most living things, it kind of has a mind of its own. Up until now, we followed the clock, making our additions every 24 hours. Now, we will be letting the starter dictate the timeframe.
Before you do your Day 4 additions, you want to make sure your starter has at least doubled. If it doubles in less than 24 hours, you should still wait until the 24 hour mark. If it takes more than 24 hours, be patient. Let it double. It may take another 12 or 24 hours, or it may take longer. Again, be patient. It will double. Just give it time.
If your starter hasn't doubled after 48 hours, you can boost it with a shot of rye flour. Add 3 to 4 tablespoons of rye flour and a bit of water (try to keep the hydration level about where it was) and mix it up. Then wait for it to double before proceeding with the Day 4 additions.
Eventually, you'll end up with a nice, bubbly starter:
You can see that mine more than doubled. But I still waited for 24 hours. Once it doubles, throw out half of the starter, then mix the rest with the flour and water, and back into the bowl it goes:
Replace the tape and plastic wrap. Then wait for it to double. It could take as little as 4 hours, or it may take more than 24 hours. This time, you can move on to Day 5 at any point after doubling. It's OK if you let it more than double; it's also OK to move on right when it hits the double mark. So, hurry up and wait.
Day 5:
Ingredients: 3/4 cup unbleached AP, bread, or high gluten flour; 1/2 cup water
Once your starter has at least doubled, it's time for the final mix.
Combine flour, water, and 1/4 cup starter in a bowl and mix well. Transfer to a clean container with room for the starter to at least double.
OK, one last time, cover with plastic wrap and let it sit on the counter until it gets nice and bubbly. Don't worry so much about how much it grows, just so that it's bubbly looking. This will probably take around 6 hours, but, again, don't stress about the time. Let the starter tell you when it's ready.
When your starter gets bubbly, pat yourself on the back: you are now the proud parent of a bouncing baby starter! Put a lid or other cover on your container and put it in the refrigerator. Let it chill overnight, and you can begin using it the next day.
Day 6 and beyond:
By today, your starter is ready to use. The flavor will continue to develop over the next several weeks to month, so don't be disappointed if your first few loaves aren't sour enough for you. I would still recommend beginning to bake with it right away, especially if you have never made sourdough bread before. That way, you can hone your skills while your starter develops its flavor.
Feeding your sourdough: If you keep your sourdough in the fridge, you only have to feed it about once a week. And you can minimize your discards by keeping only what you need and feeding it when you want to bake with it. I recommend a 1:1:1 (starter:water:flour) feeding, which means each feeding includes an equal amount, by weight, of starter, water, and flour.
Start by weighing your starter, subtracting the weight of your container. Then add an equal amount of water and flour directly to the container. So, for example, if you have 100 grams of starter, you would add 100 grams each of water and flour. I generally add the water and flour at the same time, although some people recommend adding the water first and whisking to dissolve the starter before adding the flour.
If you feed your starter right out of the fridge, as I do, warm your water to lukewarm (90 - 100 degrees F). After you mix in the water and flour, leave it out on the counter for a few hours, then put it back in the refrigerator. It's best if you feed your starter a few days before you intend to bake with it.
To illustrate, here is an example of my feeding routine, starting with the Day 5 starter and assuming that I finished making the starter on Friday night:
- Saturday morning, I take out what I need to bake bread (2/3 cup using my normal sourdough bread recipe) and return the rest of the starter to the refrigetator.
- Wednesday of the next week, I get out the starter, weigh it, and add equal amounts of flour and water in a 1:1:1 ratio, as outlined above. My goal here is to build up as much starter as I need to make bread on the weekend, and enough left over for my next build. It's OK if I have more than I need to bake with. If I don't think I'll have enough after a 1:1:1 build, I will increase my ratio of flour and water, maybe to 1:2:2 or 1:1.5:1.5. In that case, I will let it sit out until it almost doubles before returning it to the fridge, which might take a bit longer, as I'm using less starter relative to flour and water.
- Friday night or Saturday morning, I again take out what I need to bake with and return the rest to the fridge, to be fed again mid-week.
This is just an example of how I keep my starter. You can feed yours more often if you bake more than I do. It's also OK to let it go more than a week between feedings. If you do that, though, you might want to feed it a few times before you bake with it.
So, that's it. Hopefully I've unravelled some of the mystery of sourdough starters and given you the confidence to try one yourself. Good luck, and let me know how it works out for you!
I don't understand the feeding quantities. Would it be 1 part flour to 1/2 part water and then 1 to 1? The starter starting is becoming more of an art than a science.
That feeding is 1 part starter by half part water and half part flour by weight.
Since a starter is a living thing it has to be nurtured. No two are exactly alike and one can't predict exactly how it'll behave at this stage. Once mature it will be more predictable but one will always have to go by feel somewhat.
Double posts
Right on schedule. I would feed less often, if twice a day, try once. For a few days at least, and no need for discard unless you have a bathtub full of starter. I find, with a white flour starter in particular, daily discard/feeds seem to dilute things which makes things go slower. Once it's very active it'll require the new food, in the early stages it really doesn't which creates dilution. Almost there!
I just fed my starter for the first time and it's not rising like I thought maybe it should be. Following these instructions my starter rose exactly like it should have so I know I have some wild yeast in there. I fed it about three hours ago and it's still on my kitchen table. My water was room temp because I forgot to warm it. It does have some bubbles on the surface so I don't think it's dead. Just wondering if I should Leave it out longer, put it back in the fridge, start over??? Uhhhh
The initial bubbling up happens relatively quickly. The next feed or two you might find it reacts on cue. However starters do go through a quiet period when all seems to go dead. You have not done anything wrong, this is normal! The bad bacteria is dying off and the starter is turning acidic creating a good environment for the good bacteria and yeasts. The quiet period may last as day or two or even three. Best advice to feed only when you see activity. If not activity then keep warm and stir missing a feed or two or even three. Patience is the key! When it begins to show signs of life then carry on.
Here is what i would do when creating a starter.
Mix in equal parts by weight some flour (including wholegrain) and water which has been boiled and cooled. Keep warm (78F is an optimum temperature). Then wait until it bubbles up which can be anything from 12 hours to 1 1/2 days.
Then I'll discard 2/3rds and top back up. Again I'll wait until it bubbles up. It may react again quite quickly and as strong or it may be slower and weaker. As long as there is signs of life all is good. When it seems to have done all the bubbling up its going to do I'll feed again.
At some point you'll feed it, as above, and all will go quiet. Normally the third or fourth feed. At which point I'd stop feeding, keep warm and just stir. This quiet period can last for days! So be prepared for a waiting game. Every 12 hours give it a stir, keep warm and wait!
When it begins to pick up again then continue feeding following the rule to only feed when it shows signs of life.
From here onwards it'll gain strength and pick up speed. Once it is strong and predictable I'd give it some greater feeds and then after a few of those I'd bake with it. After which you'd store it in the fridge and find a good maintenance schedule.
Patience is the key!
Hi all,
I have followed this starter recipe by the book. But here is what went wrong:
On day 4, the starter did not double after 24h. I waited 48 hours and it still not doubled. I have added 4 tablespoons of flour and some water, as per the instructions. I have waited another 24 hours and the starter doubled in size this time.
According to the recipe, on day 5, the started should double within 3 to 24 hours. It's been more than 24 hours and it did not double (it almost doubled but then it went back to almost the initial size). So the recipe does not say what to do next in this case. Please advise.
Thank you in advance.
Hello! Thanks for the tutorial. I made a starter per Ken Forkish guidelines in FWSY. He uses 80% hydration. I've been keeping it in the fridge until Thursday night, feeding it 2-3 times before use on Saturday. A few questions for you...
1) My starter has a hard time doubling. I keep it in warm temps and feed 1:4:5 with 1/5 of the flour being whole wheat (FWSY recommends). I use 20g starter in my feedings with water at 90 degrees. Should I use more starter? Should I do 100% hydration?
2) How often should I be feeding? FWSY says every 24 hours but then I've read every 12 hours.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Can these starters be saved?
I have 2 starters in the works, neither of them bubbling.
- The first is a 50/50 rye/AP blend, discard 50% and replenish twice a day. No sign of bubbles on Day 10
- The second is on Day 5 of a pineapple juice/rye blend, equal weights. Day 1 and 2 juice, day 3-4 water
Neither of them is bubbling!
Because my kitchen temps range from 60°F at night to 70°F during the days I used an improvised proofing chamber with temps as high as 100°. Could this be the problem?
If high temp is the issue, can I continue to work on what I have, but bring it into my cooler kitchen and give both an additional feeding?
and the little critters are desperate to get away from you if they were not killed off by heat or thrown out with the over feeding. Try this. Stop feeding them for a few days and let them just stand covered in your not so warm kitchen. Maybe you could find a warm spot somewhere in there, over the refrigerator perhaps? Try to find something close to 75° to 78° F.
I’m putting them on a diet immediately! I think that I can probably keep 70°-ish if I put it in the lower half of my double oven with the light on in the upper oven. Stay tuned.
I'm more inclined to find a cool box or double up some small cardboard boxes and stick some large jars of warm (not hot) water inside to maintain temp covering with a sheet of foil & a fluffy towel. It's also more economical.
My original fermentation chamber was a small cooler with jars of hot water inside. While they work well for short-term proofing they are subject to large temperature swings unless babysat regularly. I have tested my ovens with one or both lights on and can maintain consistent lower temps. (Microwave ovens, with jars of warm water also make good proofing chambers, but have the same babysitting issues for longterm fermentation.
A L O N E ?
Just kidding... Happy Sunday! :)
I’m keeping a close eye out for Child Protective Services any day now...worried about my upcoming experiments with fermented fruit will mitigate any chance of leniency on the part of the judge.
After 3 or 4 days of CPR on my original cultures I put them, and me out of their misery and started over.
Here is my rye and clementine juice starter at 48 hours. Woohoo! It has doubled in bulk and is beautifully frothy! Thank you to Debra Wink for detailed instructions.
(I do have a parallel starter going which began with 2 tbsp of my previous discard and has been fed rye and water. It is also active, but only achieved maybe 25% lift in the last 24 hours.)
The key difference between my earlier failures and success is dropping fermentation temperature into the 70-80°F range vs. 90-100°.
Two questions:
1. Will feeding durum speed up development of the sour taste?
2. Will I get more interesting flavors if I keep working on the Discard batch given that some of the contents are close to 2 weeks old now but have only had ideal temperatures for 48 hours?
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So I'm up to 2 feedings a day. Throw out half, add 67g whole wheat ka flour and 115g room temp bottled water. Some bubbles on top but not sides and no growth. Should I wait until it grows to feed again? On about day 7 here.
Too much water. Make it thick - wait till it gets watery - (the toughest part) - repeat - then wait - after a few weeks it'll be ready. Enjoy!
Thank you. So how many grams of water and flour should I be adding to half they starter now or Just add flour to thicken?
Use a little of the old - like a few grams - and the new stuff (say 10 times more - a 50% water mix) - and wait. If too thin just add flour. Enjoy!
I did 25/50/50 this morning. It's over doubled today. Woot woot. Well feed again this evening. So looking forward to moving ahead with rise and falls and beautiful fermenting! Seems to have taken forever. Can't wait for first loaf. Thank you so much. Love this site!
Don't use too soon - it pays to wait till you see some consistency. Enjoy!