I make bread for two reasons - so I have great bread to eat and to teach myself how to make bread. Today's effort is toward the latter purpose. I'm making a Tartine country loaf. I've done this recipe a few times before, and while it was yummy, the crumb was wrong - dense on the bottom and cavernous on the top.
Today I'm trying the exact same recipe, but lowering the hydration to 65%. This is far lower than what I want ultimately, but I just wanted to see what effect this would have on the crumb.
I'm currently in the stretch 'n' fold segment of our program, and I'm finding that the dough is incredibly tough. I feel like I'm trying to stretch and fold a tire. I really don't want to analyze my recipe in this thread. I just want to know... Would a lower hydration make it that much tougher to stretch the dough? I really don't think I made any other changes, so I'm hoping this would explain it.
will be stiffer. Good to notice the differences. A sourdough batch will also feel different as fermentation progresses. So you may note that the feel of the dough changes with time. You may also note that less stretches and folds are needed or that as the dough ferments, the gaps between the first folds and the later ones shorten to maintain shape. Enjoy the feel and response of the dough at this hydration.
Thanks for the good info. This was sort of an extreme hydration test to see what happens at this low end. I'll be climbing up again from here.
65% is hardly the low end. Rather it is normal average hydration for the flour of average strength and average ability to absorb moisture, and with proper technique it gives perfectly nice open crumb. If you have trouble stretching dough several things can be in play, for example: your flour could be too strong, your flour could be to dry, you could be not giving it enough time to relax.
I'm not suggesting I was pushing the envelope with dry dough, but this is about as dry as I want to get for this loaf. My goal is a much higher hydration - probably in the 75-80% neighborhood. I was initially giving it 30 minute rest periods and then extended that to 45.
FWIW, my regular sourdoughs are 64%. My yeasted whites and baguettes a shade lower.
There is some debate over UK/European flours vs. American (if you're in the US that is) in terms of absorption and development. One day i'll import some US flour and find out...
If you want "proper" low hydration ;-) Lookup Pain Brie - you knead it by beating it up with a rolling pin!
-Gordon
I was surprised how horrible a rise I got in my proofing basket. It was almost non-existent. The oven spring was pretty spectacular, though - almost making up for the lack of rise. I'd been keeping my starter dormant in the fridge. A couple days ago, I took it out and have been feeding it 1:1:1 twice a day. I fed it last night before bed time, and this morning it seemed VERY active, so I assumed it was ready for prime time. Perhaps it needed more feeding.
maybe
A one to four feeding after a one to one might have helped, letting it peak. Depends on your temps. I keep mine in the fridge too.
Less hydration slows fermentation so the times will be longer. The bulking part of the rise will be much longer. And it takes more gas to lift a heavy dough. All good tests of patience. :) Poke tests are more fun....
Good thing is now you know the feel of pretzel and bagel dough! You get a longer play time, shaping time with stiffer doughs. You can see that floating stiffer dough shapes in a liquid as with bagels and pretzels has advantages. Playing with a stiff dough also shows you how you have learned to work with wetter doughs. The next dough, try going up 3%, will be easy peasy.
Did you get any busting out during the spring?
Here's what it looks like. I wish I'd taken a photo before putting it in. It was pitiful. There was so little rise you could clearly see the seams in the bottom of the dough. Normally, they'd stretch out and be more subtle. But now I've got my low hydration out of me. Next time, 90%!! No, not really.
With lower hydration, scoring can be more elaborate and deeper for more expansion.
Good overall shape on this loaf!
I'm sure it'll taste fine. And it's yet another step away from cluelessness.
I'd say that the next time you have to mix up a sourdough you know more about what might be too dry for that particular flour. Hope you're keeping notes. :)
Enjoy the loaf! Don't forget a crumb photo if not for yourself but for us! Lol!
I know I'm supposed to wait till it cools, but I was too curious (and a little hungry). I've still got some of the massive holes, but not quite as bad as before. I'll work on that. As far as notes go, I take tons and tons of notes. Each recipe I have has pages of results after it.
I think the massive holes are a shaping issue but otherwise looks great to me. Did you include an autolyse? Very beneficial, gives the dough time to absorb the water before adding in the Levain and salt. Might've made the dough more manageable.
Yes, I mix everything except the salt, autolyse for 30 min, add salt and a splash of water, squish it around in the bowl for a while till it seems all incorporated, then start the stretch and fold sessions.
Holes this size (and their pre-baking smaller sizes) can be felt under the surface of the rising dough. Yup, yes they can. Gently poke around on the rising loaf and experience a mixture of dense to more gassy areas inside the loaf. Sometimes you have to put a floured hand on the opposite side and prod a lot to teach your hands what is underneath. Make mental notes then slice the dough open with a sharp knife or bench scraper to get a good look at the inside and compare visual with dextral. It's your learning medium and you can do anything you want with it. Take advantage! Slap it back together after a good look (or photo) and let rise or relax before folding or shaping again.
You can also check on your folding and shaping technique too. I don't recommend this for ciabatta dough, might investigate into "wonder bread." Works well for this hydration "feel."
Thanks for the crumb shot! Cutting warm bread is great for the soul, my hubby does it all the time much to my protesting. If I make rolls, we can do it over and over again small scale. Warm cutting does release a delicious cloud of moisture from the loaf that should be optimised to maximum degree. Stand close and let it hit you in the face! Mmmmmm... :)
Another trick with the camera is not to use the flash if you can help it and position light more sideways to the surface of the bread. Creates more shadows and detail. (like that big 'ol shadowy hole, wonderful detail!) Hard to see the lower half crumb. The crust looks good, nicely brown all around so the heat is excellent.
Those crispy bits are my favourite, some might call them "ears."
I actually "know" how to take a decent photo of bread. Flash isn't it. I just wasn't terribly happy with this loaf and didn't think it deserved a good photo. Well, that's probably too harsh. It tasted great, and I had it for dinner last night. I was in a bit of a rush as well and didn't take the time to put it in a naturally lit spot. Next time.
That's an interesting idea about cutting it open ahead of time to see what's going on. So much of this is experimentation anyways, what to I have to lose? I have a 50-lb bag of bread flour, so it's not like it's costing all that much even if I had to throw a loaf away.
I figure once I'm getting reliably good results, I can wait till it cools down completely, confident in what I'll find inside.