Hi,
I have a starter in my fridge. I keep it in the fridge and every 3 days I get it out, feed it and use it after 12 hours. Then I feed it again and put it in the fridge.
Does this weaken the starter? Should I feed it more often? I noticed that when I keep it in the fridge the starter becomes more sour, than when I used to keep it outside the fridge and feed it often.
I usually feed the starter with ratio 1:2:2 and doubles in 12 hours. If I feed it let's say 1:5:5 will (or should) it double in the same time? If I am correct if I want to make a less sour starter I have to discard some quantity and feed it again with more flour, isn't that correct?
It's a 50% hydration starter, 80% bread flour and 20% whole rye (or whole wheat). I only build 85g, allow it to grow by half then it gets refrigerated. When it comes to baking I take a little off and build a levain. My starter can live in the fridge for a long time between feeds and only gets taken out to be topped up again. And so on.
Should you feed more often or less? Well that depends on your baking schedule. Do you bake often? If not, then why be slave to your starter, keep feeding it and invariably build up discard only to bake once a week or less often?
It doesn't matter if you feed your starter 1:5:5 or discard and feed what's left 1:5:5 as it's the same ratio of starter to fresh flour. Discarding would help to not build up too much but you should really find a way of maintenance where you do not discard.
Keeping a low hydration starter and using when very mature encourages more sour.
Keeping a liquid starter and using when young will encourage a more mellow flavour.
Why not build levains in at least two stages this way you can control the profile of what is going into the dough better making it less tangy. Also consider how much starter you're using within a dough and at what temperature you're fermenting the dough at.
Take a look at this article... https://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-sour/
just to slip in here....
"It doesn't matter if you feed your starter 1:5:5 or discard and feed what's left 1:5:5 as it's the same ratio of starter to fresh flour"
um.... 1:5:5 and 1:2:2 are not the same ratio of starter to fresh flour and it does make a difference. A larger feed takes longer but with repeated feedings without chilling or retarding growth, yeast numbers will increase and saturate the starter sooner with gas. So eventually the one to five feeding may rise faster than the one to two feeding.
Letting the starter peak as opposed to just "double" makes a difference. Feeding the starter more flour as with a 1:5:5 feeding will increase the yeast population in the starter if it is allowed to peak before feeding again. Feeding too soon, while populations are low in both bacteria and yeast may reduce the starter's ability to defend itself from the potential invaders present in each spoonful of flour.
I said it doesn't matter if you feed what you have 1:5:5 or discard and then feed what's left with 1:5:5 in response to the original comment that in order to make it less sour one needs to discard. I might have misunderstood though what the original poster meant. Discard or no discard if you feed 1:5:5 it is a better feed than 1:2:2 yes! And will build up a larger yeast population.
Sorry if I've confused anyone.
I have an 100% hydration starter and I bake about 2-3 times per week. Mostly 2 times I would say. And I usually go for 10% starter (ie 1000g flour, 100g starter @100% hydration) and around 12 hours of fermentation all night at 18-20oC.
After some comments in Trevor's breadwerx blog, I did as he suggested me, and left the starter outside the fridge while feeding it every 12 hours. The loafs I made at that time where better. Better rising, and kept their shape better (I follow the same shaping technique). But yes, there where lots of discards.
So if I feed my starter from the fridge with 1:2:2 or 1:5:5 will it be ready in the same amount of time? Will the starter become more active with 1:2:2 or 1:5:5?
thanks
1:2:2 will be quicker than 1:5:5 as there is a higher ratio of starter to fresh flour. With 1:5:5 there is a higher ratio of fresh flour to starter therefore it'll take longer to peak.
and what about the starters' strength after it peaks?
it is at an optimal strength to use. Means it's nice and active. Keeping your starter out and feeding it everyday will mean your starter is always active and will be strong. For me, because I keep it in the fridge for a long time between feeds, it needs a bit of extra TLC and perhaps a twice fed levain to bring it back to strength.
but could you give me an example in weights (grams) of feeding 1:2:2 and a separate example for 1:5:5? For a total of 150 grams starter or there abouts.
Also is I feed 20 grams of starter 80 grams rye flour and 80 grams water is that 1:4:4?
1:1:1 would be 20 grams starter to 20 grams flour to 20 grams water right.
Can't conceptually grasp the ratios here. Need some examples to help please.
Example in weights (grams) of feeding 1:2:2 and a separate example for 1:5:5? For a total of 150 grams starter or there abouts.
A feeding ratio of 1:2:2 (s:w:f) would be: A feeding ratio (starter to flour food) of one to two calling the water 100% hydration.
A feeding ratio for 150g starter would include water.... lets do the maths... 1+2+2 = 5 So take total starter amount 150 and divide by 5. That gives 30g Plug that into our feeding ratio of 1:2:2 1 x 30g and 2 x 30g (or 60g)
We come out with 30g starter and 60g water and 60g flour. To check results add up the starter, water and flour and one should have the total amount of starter.... 30 + 60 + 60 = 150
On a side note: Playing with the figures 30:60:60 one can see that these numbers can be reduced in a number of ways to form simple relationships with one another. the obvious is 3:6:6 dropping zeros or dividing by 10. The ratio stays the same... one to two starter to flour The hydration is 100% as the water and flour amounts are the same.
A feeding ratio of 1:5:5 would read: A feeding ratio of one to five with 100% hydration.
For a total of 150g divide 150 by 11 (1+5+5) which gives 13.64 Starter amount would be 13.64 or round up to 14 (in all practical sense, we at home might as well round up to 15 and make life easier.) So lets go with 14... :) ...and 15
The feeding would be 14g of starter with 14 x 5 or 70g each water and flour for a total of 154g of starter. 4g stuck to the sides of the jar.
Using 15g of starter gives us 75g each water and flour for a starter total of 165g with up to a tablespoon of extra starter left over to slop around or feed for more starter.
20 grams of starter 80 grams rye flour and 80 grams water is that 1:4:4? Yes, a feeding ratio of one to four with 100% hydration.
1:1:1 would be 20 grams starter to 20 grams flour to 20 grams water right? right!
If you keep your starter on the counter you don't need huge amounts of it, 40-50 gram will suffice. Also, in feeding cycle you don't need to refresh it when it peaks - if it peaks in 12 hours let it go 24, it will be just fine. This approach minimizes the discards.
Bread is not an exact science, it is a necessity of life that has been going on for centuries. There's no reason to be all precious about bread. There are scores of methods, techniques and recipes. Just read the responses here. Everyone's got a different suggestion. They all work. Now find what work's for your life so that you have fresh bread whenever you want it. My starter is now 11 years old. I feed it the day before I bake, every ten days or so. The rest of the time it hangs out in the refrigerator. I also use it to make flatbreads, pancakes and waffles and feed it then too. If I get liquor on the starter, I will add that to my bread dough. Relax. This is a joy, not a chore.
in the fridge and back 1 loaf a bread from it every week using 5-10 g of it a time When I get down to 10 g left I refresh it. This is the NMNF starter where no maintenance is required for 4-6 months at a time and you are't chained to your starter and there is no discards. Here is how- happy SD baking
No Muss No Fuss Starter
30:100:100 ? 30 grams starter and 100 grams water and 100 grams flour?
in several ways.... dividing each number by 10 to read 3:10:10
or divide each number by 30 to get 1 : 3.3 : 3.3