consistently since starter was refrigerated.
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/fifty-fifty-whole-wheat-sourdough-bread/ - tried this bread yesterday and the only things I changed:
1. Used 44% WWF and 56% White flour instead of 50:50.
2. Reduced hydration to 80%. Salt 1.6%. Autolyse 1.5 hours. Starter 13%. Bulk took 5 hours with machine kneading first and 2 sets of slap and fold. The dough seemed quite strong and resisted a lot. Cold proofing was around 11 hours after which the dough was smoother but no significant rise was noticeable.
3. I also did not do the quick levain as called for instead fed my starter 1:2:2 with apf and wwf & used it when bubbly and rising instead of the levain. A note about my starter, it doesn't rise well when only on a white flour diet and likes a mix of wwf and apf better. It also takes longer to show activity after feed since refrigerated. It was out for 3 days before I baked with it.
Result was absolutely no oven rise despite scoring and the doughy crumb looks as attached. I don't even feel like tasting the bread ... wondering what to do with it now. ... perhaps toast it to make breadcrumbs.. :-/
I think by not making the levain you actually didn't give the yeast enough of a chance to multiply to number required. The recipe would probably still work but you needed more time for the yeast to do it's magic.
Gerhard
It definitely looks like there was no yeast activity to speak of in this dough. Sort of baked flour and water paste!
You can always crumble it up and add it to a new batch of bread. This is often done with rye breads. Just use it in place of part of the flour and water in the recipe. I don't think it would make very good crumbs.
the flour idea sounds great. Thanks!
No yeast is what I thought too. I don't understand how not making a separate levain did this because I just fed the starter (used in place of levain), 1:2:2 instead of 1:1:1. So ideally there was more food in there for the yeast to multiply. Or am I wrong here?
The question is why are my yeast slowing down? This has been happening with every bread I baked since refrigerating my starter. They take longer and longer and I end up exceeding yhe recipe timelines and over fermenting/proofing or under.
Just different terminology for how you use your starter. A Levain is an off-shoot of a starter. It's basically the same thing. Building a Levain is handy if one needs to use a different hydration and flour to the starter. But if your starter is already built to the right specs then feeding it, waiting for it to peak, and using it is the same thing. Building Levains from a starter kept in the fridge is also easy to manage. When a starter is ready to use it should be peaked but then it needs to be fed again before refrigerating and if you don't bake often it'll again need to be fed when taken out of the fridge.
I'm not quite sure I understood your starter maintenance and build. How often is not fed? How did you do your build? Had it peaked? etc
When I use the starter out of the fridge I always add a bit of water, let it warm for a 2 or 3 of hours, dump 2/3 out and feed it, next morning I build my sponge/levain or whatever we want to call it. I know that some people won't like the dumping part but it works consistently for me. The sourdough starter in my fridge is pretty stiff which is why add a bit of water when taking it out of the fridge. Tons of roads lead to Rome, trick is to find the one that works for you.
Gerhard
is reducing in yeast strength, then one needs to evaluate all the details of maintenance.
When the total dough flour is inoculated with 13% starter, it may easily take 4 to 6 hours to notice a rise and 8 or more to reach doubling of volume.
Experiment... Try feeding 10g of starter to 100g flour with 70g of water and place the dough in a tall straight sided jar or measuring cup and see how long it takes to start to rise. Cover, mark the level, and every hour until it peaks, no stirring.
I like to run a piece of tape up the side and then transfer it to my notebook. This may give you some idea of the current strength of the yeast right now. Wait a few hours after peak then you have two options...1) stir down and watch for a second peak (just for the fun of it) Or 2) if you want to build more yeast, repeat trying to shorten the peak to about 8 hours for a 12 hour feeding cycle.
Agree with the maintenance.
I find that 13% is too low, I mean it works, but takes forever to rise. I usually lean on more levain at the 25% to 30% level; and get great rises within 3 to 4 hours.
I use a rubber band on my jars to mark the levels, so much easier to move around than sticky tape :)
Lechem - I just posted a new thread with all details and pic of my starter that I am trying to revive after its 2 week hibernation in the refrigerator. Yes it did peak before I baked with it.
- http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/50753/did-i-kill-yeast-my-starter
Md123 - If it works, I should probably try 30% starter instead of 13% in the same recipe.
Minioven - will try what u suggested once it starts rising.
Thank u all.
take 25 g of starter add 50 g of flour and 50 g of and 50 g of water. at 78 F Stir it at the 4 and 8 hour mark and then see if it can double in the next 4 hours. If it does then the starter is fine. If it does rise but does not double then it is weak. Toss half the levain you just made and feed it 50 g each of flour and water, stir it at 4 and 8 hours and see if it can double in the next 4 hours.
and then fed only wwf in the ratio 2:1:1. Picture taken 12 hrs after feed.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQPfmBXFLBm/
I think it likes wwf and any attempt to mix in white flour slows it down.
" The question is why are my yeast slowing down? This has been happening with every bread I baked since refrigerating my starter. They take longer and longer and I end up exceeding the recipe timelines and over fermenting/proofing or under."
Perhaps refrigeration is the stumbling block here , both with the starter and with the cold proofing , and that and 17.5 hours of interrupted rising looks to be too much for your starter at this time .
You could try going back to basic making and baking for a while
Your maintenance has changed but have you adjusted your method taking this into account?
A starter fed everyday will peak quickly. In the right temperature just a few hours.
A starter fed a week back and has been kept in the fridge may take 12-14 hours. Depending.
So have you adjusted your own timetable to take this into account? Your starter is probably fine. Just needs a different approach.
A starter fed a week back and has been kept in the fridge may take 12-14 hours. Depending.
So have you adjusted your own timetable to take this into account?
I did wait to see activity before feeding it (if thats what you mean)... I don't follow a fixed time table per se. I know I have to feed it around the 24 hour mark and by that time, I would expect it to double and peak and fall, given a few hours up and down. But my starter just stopped peaking or smelling like it did before. It was absolutely still with no activity. Untill I fed it just wwf. Now still, I miss seeing it peak within 3-4 hours of a feed.
I'd love to hear that my starter is fine. What approach do I need to adopt?
When taking your starter that has been in the fridge and feeding it then it will take longer to wake up and mature than a starter that I'd regularly fed at room temperature.
Are you making sure your starter has risen by about 1/3 before refrigerating? You want to see some activity before refrigerating but you don't want it to peak. Enough to see that it's healthy and active but not too much as it won't last as long between feeds. Then when you take some off to feed you can either bring it to room temperature and/or feed with warm water. I just take it out and feed as normal but wait till its ready.
Keep feeding it wholegrain as your starter likes that. And if you ever think it's playing up you can give it some tlc at room temperature for a few days. If your starter seems sluggish when preparing a levain then wait enough time for it to peak and do two builds.
How's your starter now?
and not enough baking in the kitchen .
Keep the starter away from the fridge , leave the measuring tools in the drawer , and take the battery out of the clock .
Get a freshly sterilized jar and drop a dollop of that mix into , it add some more flour , pour some tap water in after it , stir the stuff about until you have batter like paste , cover the jar with a loose lid , one that lets the mix breathe , and still keeps the dust out , put the jar somewhere out of sight , stay away from the jar for three or four days .