Hi:
Historically I've had success with sourdough, using my own yeast, and basic recipes of 65-75% hydration levels - hydration depends on how patient I am in weighing out the ingredients. Usual method involves 30-60 minute autolyse, 2% salt with slap-n-fold until smoothed dough, bulk ferment for 2-3.5 hours (depending on ambient temps) with a strech-n-fold at 30-60 minute intervals, shape and proof for an hour, overnight in fridge, slash, bake. The flour is typically hodgson mill organic all purpose with about 5% bob's red mill rye, but I've also been known to vitamix my own frozen wheat and rye berries. Starter is 100% hydration, several months old - I keep 10-30 g, feed it 10g rye, 40g APF, and 50g water; 1-2x per 24 hour period. Doubles in about 7 hours, ready in about 12. It's cold here these days, so takes just a wee bit longer. With an established starter, I've found precision with the starter to be mostly extra work and unnecessary.
Here's the problem: last couple weeks the bread sucks. Everything is fine into the first stretch and fold, then after about 20 minutes, the dough loses elasticity and goes limp like a dali clock. When shaping, I can get a taught skin with a little more effort. I've tried changing flours to what's here locally: bob's red mill organic APF, KA organic bread flour (which, btw, smells like Kellog's Cracklin' Oatbran Cereal?!), and something unknown I've had in the cupboard for several months - might be hodgson mills bread flour? It has been getting decent oven spring and pretty ears, but the crumb has been dense and the loaf heavy. My most recent bakes now seem to be indicative of overproofing (crust was super pale), however, there were almost no holes, and the bread tastes awful. I've also tried reducing bulk ferment and increasing it, tried bulk ferment in fridge prior to the stretch and fold, and improved consistency of starter feeding.
I'm totally perplexed. Almost points to a bad starter? Suggestions on healing my little pet yeast, or something else to try?
Thank you kindly for your time in reading!
I've read this one a few time and am still perplexed. Any chance your scale might be on the fritz? Is there any chance something has changed in your water?
Decent oven spring is indicative of gas production in the ferment but the slackness of the dough points me towards poor gluten development or a greater hydration level than you are calculating. With good oven spring comes bubbles, either dispersed (good) or locked together in an endless tunnel near the top (not so good).
An over-achieving sourdough will eventually attack the gluten but I'd be very surprised if it would cause slackness in the first hour or two. A drastic change in water hardness or a change in acidity might be a consideration. Maybe you should run down to the hardware store and pick-up a test kit.
Might you try straight APF and see what happens?
Too much water and compromised shaping might lead to the density you describe.
I did have to Google-search dali clock. Thanks for the chuckle :-)
Did you say you feed it 1 or 2 times per 24 hours? It sounds like it should be fed every 12 hours. It should also more than double when it peaks (triple at least).
Edit: One other thing... if it is cold outside now, the tap water can be significantly colder. This can really change the timing for everything. So I suggest you check the temperature of the water going into the starter and going into the final dough to make sure it isn't too cold.
Long story short, I had several issues. Here are the biggest, in order of discovery, with the last having the greatest impact:
- too much salt (3.5-4%)
- not enough gluten development with initial salp-n-fold and stretch-n-folds
- bulk ferment too short
For some reason my pet yeast no longer doubles in 7 - more like it takes 12-14 hours to double, even with a 1:2 ratio (30g old starter, 60g water/flour each - typical is 1:3-5 ratio). Also, upon mixing, the starter doesn't show any activity for about 6-7 hours, then finally the holes start showing and the thing begins to rise.
To make things easy, I went with a lower hydration (62-63%), used a stand mixer for 10 minutes on medium low, and let the initial ferment go for 9 hours, followed by a 4 hour proof. All done at room temp (72F).
In the past, this starter has only needed the typical 3-5 hour bulk ferment, and this, together with temp of the bulk ferment at finish before shaping having been 75F, lead me to believe ambient temps aren't to blame -- it's likely the pet yeast just being wacky or slow. More consistent feeding schedule might fix the problem.
The results are pretty, but I don't like the flavor, it's slightly sour with almost a hint of "rot". I will try putting the next dough bulk on a warming plate or the oven with light.
Thanks for the help and suggestions, water was a good idea, and I did try some bottled water at one point.