Greetings Bakers
I am SO sorry if this post is very repetitive, I have tried in the past three times to start a SD Starter and have never been successful.
I have spent hours trawling through this Forum trying to find an easy basic UN-wasteful way to start and maintain a Healthy SD Starter. I hope to bake with SD 2/3 times a week, but I am also away from home a lot so I should like to keep no more than a litre size jar in the fridge when not in use.
I am now firmly into the Forkish FWSY, way of baking bread and have had all completely successful Breads and am very happy at least for the time to stick with this method.
I have all sorts of flours at my disposal, though I mainly prefer to use T55 and/or WW. I think I read somewhere that starting with a Rye flour is pretty failsafe.... is this correct ?
I should like a starter I can use 2/3 times a week feeding daily when out of the fridge But I do not want the waste I read of in the book, certainly not those quantities anyway.
Therefore what frequency and what flour, and what quantities should I adopt ?
I appreciate any help you can offer and I really have looked hard on this site. Even if you were able to just show me a link with the above answers I would be very grateful.
Thank you very much. I am really impressed with everyone's efforts I read about on here, and the combined knowledge is really staggering.
Robbie.
posts. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40918/no-muss-no-fuss-starter
I thought T55 was mostly for pastries and not bread.
Don't follow Forkish for making a starter. He's a great baker and I love his breads (thank you Hester) but his method for making a starter is a tad eccentric.
Here is a good method https://youtu.be/SuU0xmqEZyI
The only things I have to add are as follows...
1. You don't have to follow the flour mix. To make it simple just use whole rye flour. Actually any flour will do but whole rye lends itself well to starters.
2. Use pure pineapple juice for the first few feeds. Then switch to water when your starter seems strong.
3. Feed only when you see activity rather than by the clock. When your starter bubbles up on cue everytime it is fed (and with water) then it is ready.
4. Don't get worried about quiet times. This is normal at the beginning. Patience!
Best of luck.
Debra Wink's Pineapple juice solution is almost fool-proof. Simply put, substitute pineapple juice for the water for the first few days in starting the build. See the search box upper right corner of this page.
Ford
one that is converted to a stiff rye one for storage for many weeks in the fridge with no maintenance or waste while still taking a bit if it every time you bake a loaf of bread and building a levain from it.
Making a rye tarter is also nearly foolproof like DW's pineapple juice method. just take 30 g of whole rye flour and add 25 g of water to it and let it sit for 24 hours. Then feed it the same amount of flour and water (30/25) the next day and let it sit for 24 hours. Divide in half and feed each half the same amount of flour and water (30/25). On day 4 feed each 60 g of flour and 60 g of water and then stir every 4 hours. On day 5 use one for a loaf of bread as the levain.
Divide the other in half and feed one half the 60 g each if flour and water and the other half feed it 60 g of flour and 20 g of water so that this one becomes your stiff starter you keep on the counter for a couple of weeks feeding it every day. Bake another loaf of bread with the other half. Once you starter is mature jus stiffen it up to 66% hydration like the NMNF starter post tells you to do and store it in the fridge.
Happy SD baking
is that no matter what method you use, you're likely to have some discard as you feed it during the time it takes to establish itself. Feedings are basically proportional, so for any given method, the smaller the amounts of flour and water you use initially, the less you'll discard as you feed it.
Thank you all for taking the time.
@hreik, Thank you,... seems a little complicated for me. Im a simpleton. T55 has many uses inc Baguette and pretty much any other breat. Its not just for Pastry. That would be probably T45.
@Lechem, Thank you. I love your relaxed approach. Not sure about the Pjuice tho... sounds a bit fruity.
@Ford, Thank you. im not sure about this PJuice method, but I will definitely read more on it.
@Dabrownman, Thank you. I am going to try your exact method. This was the answer I was looking for.
@arjon, Thank you, I do expect a certain amount of wastage. Just not in the 100kgs : )
happy Baking all.
75-80 F if you can. I try to never have any discard when making a starter - it is just wasteful and unnecessary if you ccan make a couple of loaves of bread instead. Whole grain rye is better than whole rye too. I do this several times a year to make Peter Reinhart's dark pumpernickel - one of the best breads ever and I just fold in the left over starter into my NMNF one when I run out of breads to make with it:-)
I ALWAYS recommend the Pineapple Juice one for a first timer... It will not be fruity after a few days:
Scroll down to "Day 1"
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
Then you can go back and read the post
... If you get real into it, you can read part 1:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1
Although if you are doing 100% rye, then you could probably just do what dabrownman says. But however you begin the starter, you do not need to maintain much at all. I keep a little over 100g of starter, so maybe 1/3 cup of flour is used each time (twice a day when I have it out on the counter). That fits in a pint sized container when fully expanded. So, basically, you can keep any amount you want. I recommend figuring out what recipes you are going to make and keep that amount of starter, plus enough to refresh for the next batch.
Edit: You can always make a larger batch the night before if you know you are going to need it. My 100+g could be over 1kg in a single feeding if I needed it too (mine is pretty vigorous so it gets larger feedings ... but even if it was a more typical 1:2:2 ratio, it would end up with 500+g of starter). You can also feed one amount in the morning, and another at night. There isn't just one right way to do things.
Thank you so much guys. Perfect.
Robbie,
I have an absolutely great SD starter, two, actually, a white flour liquid levain and a thicker rye starter.
I started both with orange juice just because I didn't have pineapple at home at the time. Any sweet/tart pure juice will do - perhaps not lemon.
for your first batch, use either 100% or 50% juice with water. If your tap water is chlorinated, be sure and let it sit overnight or boil and cool before using. Chlorine kills bacteria and yeast do not like it much, either.
for your first batch, use 100% rye flour. Get organic whole rye flour if you can. 24 hours later, feed your starter 50% pastry flour and 50% rye flour. After this, you will be feeding your starter every 12 hours and you will use 100% pastry flour. Why pastry flour? Yeast metabolize, starch, not protein. Weight-for-weight, pastry flour has more yeast food than bread flour. You can use bread flour for your final feeding to contribute to the bread, instead of putting pastry dough into your bread. Feed the SD starter every 12 hours without fail if you want a vigorous one. It will survive 24 hour feedings, but it will be a weakling. It is like owning a dog that you have to let out or walk twice a day.
As far as wastage goes, maintain a small batch; you can always ramp it up the night before you wish to make bread. I use 50 gm starter (throwing away 100 gm every 12 hours), 55 gm water and 45 gm pastry flour for my liquid levain culture and I use 50-50-50 gm of starter (wasting 100), water and rye flour for the rye. The night before baking, you can use all 150 gm using the above formula to make 450 gm of starter. If you need more, start one cycle earlier.
If you are not actively baking, put the SD starter into the fridge as soon as you feed it and every 3 or 4 days take it out, refresh/feed it using the above ratio, let it enjoy life for 12 hours, then feed/refresh it and put it back in the fridge for another 3 to 4 days. That way you can cut down your wastage to twice a week. It can go as long as a month if you are on vacation but it might take 3 or 4 feeding cycles to get back to full vigor. also, when you take it out to make bread, give it 2 or 3 feeding cycles to come back up to superbug vigor.
My best advice: get a library card if you don't already have one and order Hamelman's Bread by interlibrary loan and read every section on sourdough cultures. Easy reading any very enlightening.
Everyone is right - you won;t see any life in your culture for a week. After that, watch out; it can pop the lids off of jars!
BB
Pineapple juice works better than orange juice for this. The pH is more ideal. I never used pastry flour, but as long as it isn't bleached, I guess it is fine. It is more expensive where I live. I would use what is easy to find. I don't think high protein (like King Arthur bread flour) is ideal, but it won't hurt. I use AP flour (usually King Arthur).
Just as you lean toward the more available all-purpose flour, I used orange juice because there were two old oranges in my fridge and pineapples were expensive. It worked great for me - still had the latent period for almost a week.
We would all agree that these are mixtures and not 'formulas', strictly speaking. (Hamelman likes to use the term 'formula' in lieu of 'recipe', and that is fine with me. It makes perfect sense, especially how precise he is.) But I am sure no one confuses it with formula as in 'chemical formula', which has to be exact.
In the long-term, pastry v AP v bread flour and pineapple v orange juices are differences that don't make a difference (in my opinion). But if you are just starting out and are shy about failure, then you have the ability to give yourself every advantage, small or larger.
I have heard of some people inoculating their beginning starter by putting a cabbage leaf or some other item from their garden into it. Now this is a matter of microorganisms and not pH, as you had discussed, but it is just another 'tweak' that some prefer.
It should be said here and now, for the benefit of people unfamiliar with starters who may read this, that buying 'genuine' starters such as 'San Francisco' or '100-year old Alaskan' starters are futile because the colony of microorganisms will quickly change as a result of your climate and ambient temperatures. That is why, when I refresh a culture that has been in the fridge, I let it cycle once or twice at kitchen temperature because I dont want the microorganism population to be cold-adapted; I need them to be kitchen-adapted.
I respect your opinion and experience.
BB
P.S. For readers in general, regarding pH: some people try to 'rescue' an ailing culture by giving it a shot of vinegar to support the acid-loving friendly microorganisms. This treatment is harsh and not so effective, because culture failure is most often a matter of poor technique, which will persist if not recognized. A sluggish culture more often benefits from a little rye flour for a cycle or two, and attention to regular feeding. And stay away from chlorinated tap water. Let it stand overnight. before using it.
Thank you BB. Perfect schedule. I'm gonna take a holiday then start this process when I'm back ASAP.
thank you all for your kind help.
...how it turns out. best of luck.