I'm trying the NY times Bittman recipe and it basically just turns into the wettest, stickiest dough ever. No matter how much flour I add I cant form it into a ball. It's so frustrating! It calls for 1-5/8 cups water but I think probably 1-1/2 would be better. Thanks for any tips!
Although type of flour and not measuring weight of flour can have a noticeable effect on dough stickiness, the problem is not the recipe. It is you. You must practice. Do not think I am wrong. I have seen it many times. The problem is you being a novice. I am not being mean, nor trying to discourage you.
That being said, go ahead and cut the water. It will be easier and will give you some easier reps.
I believe that you can't achieve mastery with limited repetitions. That's why my advice is: if it's not coming out right, you are doing it wrong, and the only way to do it right is to learn, observe, and practice. I would show you in person if I could.
It is an incredibly sticky dough. However, you aren't really handling it at all, so just scrape it into the hot pan and have at it.
the full recipe? Or provide a link? Also, what kind of flour are you using?
Here is one comment:
Valerie24 days ago My big problem was the sloppy, wet dough -- I used the 1 5/8 cups of water called for in the recipe instead of the 1 1/2 cups used in the video. Not only wouldn't my dough fold or hold any sort of shape, it was tough to transfer at any stage of the process. Will make again, using less water. Fantastic recipe!water at 1 1/2but NK recipes are very wet because they count on the water to make the gluten come together. Just wet your hands and be quick about messing with it
Here is a reliable recipe for this bread
http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018028-sourdough-no-knead-bread
Here's the recipe I followed. It looks like the recipe calls for 1-5/8 cups water while the video calls for 1-1/2 cups. Seems like most recipes call for 1-1/2 cups or even 1-1/3 cups. I have to say, I have NO idea how i can use 1-5/8 cups water and have it turn out right. It literally won't hold its shape. I'm sure I'm a novice, but the dough literally doesn't retain it's shape whatsoever. I used bread flour instead of AP flour. I'll try AP flour next time, but if I understand correctly if you sub bread flour for AP flour you should add some water, so it should have been less wet, not more wet.
other bakers who did this and commented at the NYT agreed w you.
Toss in a handfull of rolled oats or rye flakes. Stir them in or just sprinkle on top and let them pull water out of the loaf while it sits in the fridge. Then fold them into the dough as best you can. Don't forget to add 2% salt on the oat weight, a good pinch or two.
Stick around here and you will soon be changing your name. :)
Try the Cooks Illustrated version of no-knead (almost) bread. It works on the same principle but uses less liquids and is a little easier to handle. I have done it without the beer and it turns out great. Also, be sure to weigh your ingredients. You will get more consistent results.
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/member/views/almost-no-knead-bread-by-cooks-illustrated-50010165
Have a look at Trevor Wilson's great article and video on handling wet dough.
Mark Bittman of the NY Times got the no-knead recipe from Jim Lahey of the Sullivan Street Bakery. I used this method to bake bread for several years. Lahey's recipe at one time was posted on the Sullivan Street Bakery web site, and it called for 1-1/2 cups of water. I sometimes used 1-1/3 cups.
Here's how I learned to handle this wet, sticky dough:
Use a flexible plastic dough scraper to turn the dough out of the bowl (or off the kitchen counter) and onto a floured board or counter space. As a beginner you may want to spray the dough scrapers lightly with non-stick spray. Stretch and fold the dough three or four times, using a flexible scraper in each hand to grasp the dough. Cover with the upside-down bowl and let the dough rest for 10 or 15 minutes. Again, using a dough scraper in each hand, form the dough into a round ball by scraping dough from both sides to the middle. Work this way around the blob of dough in a circular motion, bringing up the edges and forming a seam at the center by pressing the dough together with the scrapers. If you wish, you can cover the formed loaf and let it rest again for about 15 minutes.
Spread a dish towel (not terry cloth) on a flat surface. Sprinkle wheat bran, rice flour or cornmeal in the middle of the towel in a circle slightly larger than the circumference of your loaf. Pick up the dough with the scrapers and place it upside down in the middle of the towel. The seam of the loaf will rest on the towel. Holding all four corners of the towel in one hand, lift the towel and dough and lower it into a round basket smaller than what you'll bake the bread in. Holding the towel's corners with both hands, jiggle the dough back and forth to assure that it's not sticking to the towel. If it sticks, sprinkle more rice flour (my preference) around the edges of the loaf. Cover the basket with the rest of the towel. Let the dough rise for 90 minutes or more, or until doubled.
Put your baking pot and its lid in the oven and preheat the oven to the desired temperature. Wear oven mitts to carefully remove the pot from the oven. Pick up the basket, uncover the dough and pull the corners of the towel taut underneath the basket. Holding the excess towel taut under the basket with one hand, quickly turn the basket upside down over the preheated pot and flip the dough into the pot; you want the dough to land with the seam on top. Shake the pan back and forth until the dough is situated properly. Cover the pot and bake for 30 minutes. Remove lid and bake for another 15 to 20 minutes, or to the desired internal temperature. Turn the bread out on a rack and let it cool completely before slicing.
really does help. I started baking bread by using this same exact recipe years ago. I suggest that you convert to weight instead of using volume so you can get very accurately repeatable results in the future. The amount of flour you put into your dough varies dramatically over time because flour settles as it sits around wait for you to use it. Weighing it ensures that you are actually using the same exact amount every time. Next, realize that this is a very sticky dough but to handle that I use a bowl to mix the flour into a dough then when its ready to deliver into the hot DO I use the bowl scraper to encourage the dough to be poured into the DO. After you practice, in time you'll be able to get the dough onto a floured tea towel then use the tea towel to transfer the dough into the DO.
Watch the original video of Bittman and Lahey to see how he handles such a sticky dough so you know what to ultimately aim for.
https://youtu.be/13Ah9ES2yTU?list=PLYXvDbm8WmPnVVBuXkZ27W0PwX27A0y5e
I have made many loaves using a basic no knead recipe, but doing stretch and fold several times first 2 hours ... basically. Long overnight ferment, then shape, proof and bake the next day. The bulk fermented is usually ~ 14 hours.
When I removed the dough it is always VERY bubbly (and this is if I use sourdough starter. or DIY
So here is the thing, with a boule it is easy to shape (I proof in a bowl lined with parchment) but now I want to make batards and the dough is just too slack to work with unless I add tons of flour and even then ... The resulting loaf does not have large channels.
Is the VERY slack nature of the dough due to TOO long bulk ferment at room temp? When I watch vids, the dough always seems to much more easily worked.
My usual recipe is 500g flour, 380g H2O, 1 tsp salt, and 100g starter or 1/4 tsp DIY
if you can. What temperature is the overnight ferment?
Yes, too long a ferment at warm temps can breakdown the gluten esp. when at or above 76% hydration. The other thing may be the flour isn't strong enough, contains enough gluten for a sourdough rise. I can get by using AP for a faster sourdough ferment without any retarding or for Instant yeast doughs but a long sourdough ferment often needs a flour mixture that can hold up to the long fermenting and handling. Perhaps switch out some of the AP for bread flour when making a sourdough.
Bacteria makes the difference and can be quite aggressive. I tend to lower the hydration just a little bit when using identical recipes, one with sourdough and one with instant yeast. The sourdough always tends to behave "wetter" as fermentation progresses. The instant yeast dough can take multiple rises where the sourdough would break down and be exhausted.
Thanks for responding. The temp is basic cool part of the kitchen. Our house is pretty cool and we liven Calgary Canada. We use local organic flour and we are known for having very hard AP wheat. That said, I often wonder if a shorter fermentation time would help. I have also tried fermenting on our back porch which is basically like our fridge. The rise on the ferment was much smaller. I can work fairly well with this very slack dough if I am making a boule but batard are next to impossible to form without deflating and making a mess. The bread will still rise int he oven but doesn't have the big channels that we like in our bread. As you suggested, I plan to reduce H20 (even more than I already have).
Here is a recipe that I might try but I will let it ferment overnight on the back porch. BUT, I am on a quest to make a decent batard with it.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/new-york-s-bread-master-teaches-you-how-to-make-easy-sourdough