So, I've sprouted my hard white wheat, rye and kamutt (sorry, no spelt on hand) and dehydrated them at 100F.
I'm just about to grind them (WonderMillJr, stones) and would like to know - when calculating hydration rates, would I include the weight of bran (added to levain) as well as the extracted flour to the total of 'flour'?
Also, if I were adding various grains (ground in a Coffee Grinder, perhaps 25% flour) would that also be added as 'flour' per hydration?
Lastly, if I were incorporating eggs or oil, would they be considered as 'water' regarding hydration rate?
I'm building off of various dabrownman's recipes and would like to know how to properly chart my build.
Thank you,
dobie
In my opinion I would not include the bran in your flour weight. The other grains if ground and added should be included as flour. Eggs have a certain % of water which I always include in my hydration calculations. Oil does not get absorbed by flour so is not counted as a liquid.
Thanks for the response isand66. That makes sense to me.
When I use egg, I'll figure 50% by weight. I remember during the great 'Pasta Experiments' that I couldn't get semolina and just egg yolks to bind (form gluten) no matter what. They must be very low in water content. The whites worked well however.
To figure hydration is simply water weight divided by flour weight, right? I often get slightly different results than the recipe claims (75% rather than 78% and such).
dobie
I include it in hydration calculations and since it absorbs more water than the remaining flour I also increase the hydration of the bread when i include it and why whole grain breads have a higher hydration than white ones,
Other dry stuff I also include in the hydration calculations: Dry malt powders and Vital wheat gluten are just either whole partial grains as are toadies (bran and wheat germ toasted in a dry pan) . When I grind flax I include it since it too is a grain and absorbs water once ground and potato flakes too since it takes water to hydrate them - just like flour
For eggs I use 70% water the same for molasses, barley malt syrup and honey and, here in America,butter is 20% water.
Happy hydration figuring
Thanks dabrownman
I will include the bran (sorry Ian) and ground seeds as flour. Thanks for the heads up on the 70%'s and the butter's 20%. Duely noted.
Oww, my brain hurts.
dobie
Chia seeds can easily soak up 4 times their weight in water. They are too small to grind and, if you throw them in the bread without soaking in water, they will suck every drop of water out of your dough:-) I throw sunflower seeds and squash seeds in whole without grinding and do not incude then in hydration calculations.
I sometimes make a seed mix for bread that has poppy and sesame seeds that I grind up together in a spice mill. I count these as flour because they soak up water after grinding like flour does.
So let your seeds tell you what to do when it comes to hydration.
Thanks debrownman
That's pretty much exactly what I did. No chia but flax in the grind. Sunflower and pumpkin whole.
It's doing the final rise. I'll see how it comes out.
dobie
No worries. now that I think of it I probably would too :)
Thanks Ian
Good to know. I was feeling a little conflicted (you know, dabrownman being dabrownman and all).
dobie
Just an update on results.
I was basically building a dough inspired by dabrownmans 'Sprouted 4 Grain Sourdough - 50% Whole Grain with Pecans and Cranberries'.
At this time I omited the Pecans and Cranberries but other than only using the 3 grains on hand, kept the percentages and ingredients pretty well on course.
This was the first time I've ever added the bran of my milled, sprouted grain to the levain.
All failures aside (either poor gluten developement, over fermented or over proofed), my Scandinavian looking loaf had many good qualities that I have never experienced.
While ill-formed and without significant bloom at bake, the crumb was non the less moist, tender and decently airy.
Most remarkable of all was the flavor. Remembering this was just flour, water, (wild) yeast and salt, I was quite taken aback.
The sour was moderate, which (baking to my audience) was what I was after.
The crust was extraordinary. Crisp and full of flavor.
But what surprised me most was not only how moist and tender the crumb was (the Rye, no doubt) but how sweet it was. There is no sugar in the recipe of any kind . The flavor was complex to say the least and enjoyable with every bite.
When I went to bed, I mentioned to my 'audience - (my SO)' that she might want to take a taste of this bread. Tho failed on many levels, it was still interesting and since she likes 'grainy' breads, I thought it worth her while.
I woke up this morning and a quarter of the loaf was gone.
Still a work in progress but thank you dabrownman for the inspiration and new techniques.
Someday, maybe, I'll bake a proper loaf.
dobie
for the little bloom and spring - at least it is for me The hardest part of baking bread for me is knowing when the dough is ready for the heat of the oven. The great thing about these kinds of basic bread mixes, with multiple grains,some sprouted, is that you can make all kinds of different breads with them, Pecan and Cranberry, Prune and Brazil Nut or even fig, sage and walnut. Each tastes totally different even though they have the same base of whole grains and sprouted flours.
The sprouting makes all the difference in taste from the same un-sprouted grains. So earthy complex and hearty. Half whole grains and using the extracted parts to feed the levain with a nice autloyse of the dough flour is what makes the bread sweet even though there is no sugar. The starch has been properly broken down into plenty of residual sugar to make for a fine, brown, crisp and caramelized crust. The bran lends great flavor because of the minerals but it has been softened by the wee beasties, enzymes and acid of the sourdough to make for a more open and softer crumb with less gluten strand cutting. The long slow process has allowed the other flavors that the yeast and LAB produce to really become abundant, complex and aromatic. Sprouted bread smells different to me too.
The part that isn't plain science and totally human is getting it into the oven earlier to get that spring and bloom you want. That comes with experience..
So you are close and the near perfect bread is possibly only another bake away - with 10,000 more to go:, made with even different methods and techniques
Happy baking dobie.
dabrownman
I read you loud and clear. For all the errors, there were hints of success. And thank you, at least now I have a plan to improve.
I will be trying to do better this week. Same recipe, tweaked technique.
dobie
(even tho not well realized), do I eat so little of it?
At most, 2 -3 oz slice (with a little butter) with tea for breakfast, lasts me to lunch or beyond.
I think one might lose weight with this bread.
dobie
go beyond the edge of space and time itself. Einstein discovered this while eating the famous Swabian Potato Sourdough bread his mother made and fed him when young. He claimed it made his mind extra sharp and brilliant while giving him the ability to keenly focus while day dreaming about how the universe worked for hours and hours. It gives Lucy the ability to channel famous dead people like Einstein to learn their long dead secrets.
For the rest of us, it is just delicious and just a little bit keeps us full for hours - until the next little bit! A slice of good SD pumpernickel is the best for such things in my book - plus the added benefit of the following less than sweet music from the Evil One:-)
Ahhh, beyond the edge of space and time. Sharp, brilliant and focused. I remember those days.
I am going to focus on this recipe (more or less) as it is both challenging to me and even the failures are quite delicious. Pumpernickel, Jewish Rye and now Swabian Potato sourdough will have to wait their turn.
I will be bumping up to 4 grains (sprouted) from 3. I think getting this bread decent, will go a long way in persuit of the others. So, I will focus.
dabrownman - you seem to know your history, so let me ask; I have often read in history books that a loaf (of one pound) a day per person was considered at least a subsistance diet. I don't think I could eat a pound of this such bread even if I ate nothing else. Maybe I'm wrong.
My impression is that 4 or 500 years ago (or more), this type of bread would have been the norm.
Is that right, or where they making 'Country White' back then as well? I guess location and conditions would play a large role, but still...
Thank you.
dobie
ps - Hi Lucy, keep up the good work.
couple of thousand years. Once people fond out you could sieve and sift bread and get out the hard, bitter and supposedly bad parts and still make a bread - only white. Since it cost more ans was a status symbol only the rich, the 'upper crust' could afford it. Peasants ate brown or black bread because that is what they could afford. in ancient Rome, bread was free for the poor, to help keep them in line since when they weren't hungry they weren't rioting and killing the upper crust.
As time goes on people eat less bread. In the old days they might even eat 3 pounds a day. In Medieval times 2 pounds was pretty standard.
If you type in Ancient Bread or AB in Rome, or France or Greece or Egypt or Medieval bread into your favorite search engine you will get all kinds of hits Here are some
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/07/04/bread-in-the-middle-ages/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bread
http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodbreads.html
http://www.ultimatehistoryproject.com/bread.html