Tried the Pain de Campagne again, taking on board much of the advice that you folks kindly sent my way the other day. I used the same recipe with the same ingredients as previously. Here is what I did differently in terms of the method.
1) The bulk ferment time was extended by about an hour, with an extra stretch & fold into the process; three stretch & folds over 6 hours, more or less at equal intervals.
2) I was much firmer in de-gassing my dough prior to shaping.
3) I tried to be more careful with my shaping.
3) The shaped dough was put seam side down in the banneton.
4) The banneton time i.e. proof was reduced to an hour.
5) I tried an angled score on the top as if to give my bread a "lid".
I noticed that my dough was a bit stickier today than on Friday - probably due to the change in atmospheric conditions. Overall house temperature seemed pretty similar. With the extra stretch & fold I seemed to have fewer of those ridiculously large gas bubbles I had last time, and during proof I noticed that the dough rose pretty quickly. So I put it in the oven and firmly crossed everything. Oven duration & temperature regime was the same as last time.
Initially, I looked to be getting a nice even rise (I love watching bread bake through the oven door glass) but that was as good as it got, unfortunately. After about ten minutes, the oven spring began to go insane and the bread began to get very lopsided... If anything, it was worse than last week. I doubt it's the oven, as the bread burst on the door side this time and not the back side as last time. It barely cracked the seam on top of the loaf, which is not what I was expecting, and the scoring - well I need to work harder on that I think.
The changes seem to have exacerbated the problems I had last time. Maybe it really is my lousy shaping - I might try a different method next time. Or maybe I could just avoid the stretch & folds altogether and see where that takes me...
The bread looked so ridiculous that mum and I just fell about laughing. Even the cats... sorry, supervisors, were distinctly unimpressed. And I broke my favourite bowl while mixing the dough :-(
And last of all, the obligatory crumb shot...
Back to the drawing board, methinks... *shakes head* On the upsides it tasted just as good as last time at least (went down well with tonight's bacon & eggs), and I maintain my 100 % record of not having baked a brick... :-D
Seems to be the exact same outcome as take one, well done, it can't be easy to be that consistent. jk
Maybe try a different method for shaping?
That's what I've been thinking... Instead of just plopping the dough into be banneton, I've been using the method for shaping boules given in the handbook. It works fine for my heavy rye breads, but twice using it for this has twice given me the same result. Time to look for an alternative, methinks...
I don't know what your handbook says, but I'm guessing you're trapped a big bubble or 2 of air while shaping.
For boulles, I sort of do a 7-way (or 8-way) pull and fold of the dough into the centre, then flip it over and chaff it into a tighter ball, then into the banneton or basket seam side up (when it's flipped over to be seam side down in the oven)
-Gordon
Sort of like folding up a pac-a-mac before stuffing it into its pouch? I think I can see what you mean, Gordon.
Such a puzzle. I am inclined to think it's a shaping issue. Are you using steam? If not, that could cause the crust on top to set too soon causing the blowout at the bottom edge. The large hole does indicate to me that you may have a problem in doing your folds. Maybe too much flour causing the dough not to stick to itself when you shape and/or fold the dough? Try to brush off as much flour as you can when doing your folds.
No, I'm not using steam Kathy, I doubt my elderly oven would cope with it. I have been thinking of lowering the temperature and extending the bake time, or maybe even putting the bread in the oven for a cold start...
Maybe it's the characteristics of the dough itself that's highlighting the deficiencies in my technique. I don't seem to have these issues with any of the other breads I bake, though admittedly they're lower hydration and / or heavier breads.
Next time I might go back to a simpler method i.e. abandoning the stretch and folds altogether and see if that makes a difference. if it does, then that's where the problem lies...
or missing out the stretch and folds help?
What's causing the problem. Guess it's my engineering head backtracking through what I did and wondering if not doing the stretch & folds would change anything. And am wondering if a cold start would give me the rise before setting the crust. But bread baking is as much an art as a science...
I didn't have most of these problems when I just plopped the kneaded dough into a bowl and forgot about it until it was ready to degas. But that was at full hydration when the dough was just too wet to handle. And then I just plopped it in the banneton for the proof... Beginner's luck? Probably... ;-)
...here's what I do but i'll make it quick.
Introducing steam into an oven is very difficult so Dutch Ovens get around that problem. If you don't have one then a steam tray helps but not much.
My oven has a fan, top and bottom elements. All can be toggled to work together or separately.
I'll heat the oven up with everything on.
When I put the dough in i'll turn the fan and top element off so all the heat is coming from under the dough. I'll also turn the bottom element down to 180-200C as it can burn easily. If you have a pizza stone then don't worry. I rely on a tray and tin foil.
So now the top won't dry out but the oven is preheated and all the heat is now coming from under the dough for oven spring.
When the oven spring is done (about 10minutes before the end) i'll turn the fan and top element back on to crust it over.
that kind of control with my oven, Abe. Mine has a back element and fan, neither of which can operate independently :-(
sounds like mine. fan with a circular element round it. That's the cheap domestic one - pulls air in via the fan, blows it over the element then out via 4 vents on the backplate.
My other oven - a commercial one (Lincat EC08) does exactly the same, but it has 2 fans & elements.
-Gordon
That's about right, Gordon. It's a Zanussi FM6 - a genuine relic from the 1980s...
My domestic one was the cheapest I could buy: Beko. I think its this one:
http://www.beko.co.uk/single-fan-oven-oif21100-stainless-steel-white
it cost me £195 in the local Euronics shop.
It cooks bread just fine. Has been up to 250C 5-6 days a week for 1.5 years now (although I did replace the element last year!)
I have a tray in the bottom and I throw a cup of water into that at the start of the bake. Never bother with DO's, etc. Video of if in-use here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_v9fahGlk
-Gordon
That's a really neat little timelapse video.
I actually replaced the element on mine previous week... Mine does bread ok too; since I got my slow cooker it only really gets used for baked goods these days. It does all day bakes when I make cakes for charity fundraisers.
I could certainly try adding some steam next time - I have some disposable aluminium roasting trays that'd do the job. Looking at how your bread behaves and comparing it to what my bread does makes me inclined to think that part of the problem is the crust setting before oven spring is complete.
It's just this particular loaf that's being problematic. My wholemeals, white sandwich and ryes generally tend to behave themselves.
I think using steam would make a real difference. Try baking this bread in your chicken brick and see if it works out better that way. Also, are you stretching and folding like this video?
I'd have to halve the quantity to put it in the chicken brick, but I could give that a go for sure. Actually, I could do half in the brick and half just in the oven. I have ordered a pair of smaller oval bannetons (I only have one large round one) and I can also see if the different shape makes a difference too.
I do my stretch and folds by taking the dough out of the bowl, gently spreading it out into a rectangle and folding it business letter style, then turning the dough around ninety degrees and repeating the fold. What's in the video is close to how I knead my dough early doors while it's still sticky and sloppy.
450g strong bread flour
30g wholemeal bread flour
1 1/2 tsp sea salt
200g starter @ 100% hydration
275g tepid water
Looks ok to me. 64% hydration.
I think 1.5tsp of salt = 8g. Have you got a scale that can weigh salt? Or just use your normal scale and weigh the container but don't equal it out. Then add 10g of salt. It will register this way. I'm not saying this is the issue but 2% salt of total flour is the norm and won't harm to try. But not a big issue really as 8g won't be make or break. Anyways onto the method...
Well you've got quite a high percentage of starter in your recipe at over 40%
I've seen higher but be careful not to overdo the bulk ferment. So small changes here till you work out a method that's suitable.
1. Autolyse the flour + water for 30min. Mix, cover and rest.
2. After 30 minutes sprinkle the salt over the dough followed by the starter. Combine by squeezing and folding. Will help if you run your hand under the cold tap and shake off excess water.
3. Give the dough a good old fashioned knead for 10-15min.
4. Bulk ferment for 4 hours giving the dough a stretch and fold every half an hour for the first 3 hours allowing it to rest for the remainder.
5. Turn your dough out onto a lightly floured surface and gently take out all the larger bubbles. Shape into your floured banneton. (there are many youtube videos on shaping and I recommend you watch some).
6. Final proof till 85-90% risen. Don't aim for doubled. Also place your banneton in a plastic bag so dough doesn't dry out. I cannot give you a time as you'll have to be the judge here. Start watching/checking it at arund the 1.5 hour mark.
7. Score and bake in a pre-heated oven.
Thanks for the heads up, Abe. You've given me a few things to think about. The recipe is from a book on bread that I picked up in a charity shop recently - the original was for a much higher hydration (325 ml water), so i reduced it to something I found manageable.
A teaspoon is 7g iirc... I have a balance scale. It will measure out 10g, but for anything under that I use a set of graduated spoons.
I agree, it're minor tweaks that I need to make. And definitely bone up on the shaping...
" three stretch & folds over 6 hours, more or less at equal intervals."
Others feel free to comment on how they do it, but I follow Forkish and fold 3 or 4 times in the first 2 hrs, giving the dough just enough time to relax between foldings.
That is usually 15 to 20 min, and when it retains a ball for at least 25 min, I consider the folding for gluten building complete.
Long development of yeast is what builds the rest in a no knead dough.
Doing it every two hours is essentially punching it down every two hours, driving out the gasses. You want to handle gently after the last folding to retain the air pockets.
How do you shape? do you use the Forkish 90 degree "drag" process to form the boule and tighten the surface of the dough?
I knead the dough early doors as well...
Yes, that's how I shape - it's method that's in the handbook on here, which I've been using for guidance.
Have you noticed which side of the loaf is towards the fan? It might be that the forced air is setting the crust closest to the fan and all the oven spring happens on the lee side.
My oven has convection that can't be turned off. I get round it by heating to close to 500F with an old cast iron pan in the base, then load the bread, pour boiling water into the pan, close the door and turn OFF the oven for 10-12 minutes. Then I turn on the oven and convection at ~400 for the rest of the bake. This sets the crust evenly so I don't get the 'windblown effect'.
The first loaf I had the problem with did explode on the side facing the back of the oven (and the fan), but the second loaf burst on the side facing the oven door. It's more likely to be my method or technique that's causing the issue. It's just a question of figuring out where I'm bloopering...
I could combine what you suggest with what Gordon suggests - it never hurts to try :-)