Hi there, well this is the first of what I hope will be many posts to this forum. Just wanted to say first of all that I am amazed by all the baking talent here, it's really inspiring!
So I was hoping to get a bit of help from you guys in getting my sourdough right. I've been baking sourdough on and off for a while now. I do it so infrequently though that every time I make a loaf I feel like I'm starting right from the beginning again. The starter I use at the moment has been going for over a year. I find it quite temperamental to use as it's very acidic! The first proper starter I had smelled amazing, like fruit and flowers. This one has quite a harsh acidic smell to it. It definitely gives me tangy bread, and usually a pretty good rise.
I live in the UK and the recipe I'm using is one adapted from the river cottage bread book.
I refresh my starter over the preceding couple of days. Then the night before I bake I make up a ferment which is:
290g water
230g white bread flour (I use a canadian flour which is 15% protein)
80g starter (I'm sorry, I never really keep track of the hydration!)
0.5tsp salt
The following morning I make up the final dough by adding 310g more flour and another 0.5tsp salt.
So the overall hydration of the dough is 53.7%.
We had some hot weather last week so the starter and bread were very active. I left the dough for 2 hours for its initial rise and then after shaping, left it about 1.5 hours for its final prove.
My problem with the bread is the texture of it. When I was first experimenting with sourdough I made a loaf with larger air holes which had a really really chewy texture; it was almost like eating a crumpet. It wasn't that great on it's own but once toasted with a bit of butter, it was incredble! I'd like to get back to that texture with all my bread but all the loaves I make now, even when well risen, have a soft texture that is too similar to conventional bread.
I've posted a couple of pics of the loaf from last week and I'd really appreciate your advice on getting it better. I'm guessing the close texture of the crumb is largely due to the low hydration of the dough. From what I've read on the site the recipe I'm using seems a little unusual too in having such a high volume of starter for the bread. Are there any recipes you'd advise me to try or adaptations I could make to mine?
Thank you!
Sorry, I wanted to upload a couple
Agh sorry for the multiple posts. I wanted to add a few more pics but I'm having a little trouble. I have a photo with the sliced loaf but can't seem to upload it as it's too big a file (although my mac says it's only 2.7mb). Also please ignore the loaf on the left; that one was a totally over-prooved disaster!
Hullo, another UK bod here :-) Novice, striving to improve, learning lots from the people on here.
53-ish % seems a bit low... My usual yeasted white bread works out at 60%. Most sourdoughs seem to be around the 65% mark from what I've seen...
If you like dark rye sourdoughs, then Karin's German Feinbrot is a nice one to try. Good flavour, chewy crumb and wonderful when toasted, especially when a little stale. (Not that it gets much chance to get stale here...)
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20242/karin039s-german-feinbrot
I've also been trying out a Pain de Campagne recipe I found in a book I picked up in a charity shop. It works out at around 70% hydration which while it gives big holes and a tasty, chewy bread, is a real PITA to handle.
450g strong bread flour
30g wholemeal bread flour
1 1/2 tsp sea salt
200g 100% hydration starter
325ml tepid water
Mix everything together, knead for around 10 mins, then leave to bulk ferment till doubled. That takes between 4 to 6 hours at room temp. Degas, shape, put into well-floured banneton and leave till almost doubled (will take between 1 1/2 to 3 hours). Turn out, score. Bake in a preheated oven 230C for 5 mins, then turn down to 190 and bake for a further 40.
The next time I try this, I'm going to reduce the hydration by 10% i.e. use 250 ml of water instead of 325, see where it takes me, then gradually tweak the hydration to a point where I'm comfortable with. The warmer and more humid weather can't be helping - today's attempt at this bread left me with a sticky *phlut* which gave me something of a frisbee...
Witty
P.S. The over-proved disaster would make some very nice bread-and-butter pudding ;-)
My standard based on Tartine uses about 80 g levain 100% hydration (50% whole grain and 50% white all purpose). I use it young mixed from a teaspoon of starter refreshed the night before. The Levan build takes about half a day. It's ready when a little of it floats.
I add the ripe levain to 350g of water, then add 500 g flour and mix using a stand mixer until it comes together. For flour I use a mix of whole grain,semolina, and all purpose depending on how dark I want to go. You could add strong bread as well. I let the mixed dough rest for 30 minutes. Then add 10 g salt and another 25 g water. Mix that fairly well. Then let it ferment for two hours with turns every half hour. It then goes in the fridge overnight gets shaped in the morning and baked in 3 hours or so. I use the poke test so as not to overproof. I use a Dutch oven. Preheat at 500 farenheight. Drop to 470 when I put it in then to 450 after 15 minutes, I take the cover off after 15 minutes at 450 and cook for another 10 or so. Pretty chewy not very sour. You can get away with varying the times although need to be careful not to overproof or you get shorter loaves with giant holes.
.... Very Strong Canadian flour then you should be able to increase the hydration substantially and that would make the crumb chewier. I use Waitrose Canadian flour at 65% and it gives a lovely crumb with good aeration. I have taken the hydration uo to 78% and baked in loaf tins - that works too.
Cheers
Thanks for all the advice guys! aroma, it's the Waitrose flour that I'm using so yes, upping the hydration should make a big difference. I'm working all this week so looking forward to experimenting with all your advice next week.
prettedda, I'd like to try leaving the dough in the fridge for it's final prove but I'm not sure if that would work with my starter. As I've said, I have quite an acidic starter and it seems to me that at lower ambient temperatures it tends towards producing acid whilst at warmer temperatures it produces more gas to rise the bread. I've had quite a few disasters with it where I've patiently left it to prove and all I get at the end is an acidic, gloopy puddle.
I've always used the same recipe for my sourdough using a smaller volume of starter sounds like an interesting way of doing things too, so I'll give that a go. I'll post my results! Thanks again
Oh and here's a picture of the crumb for the loaf - figured out how to upload it:
we would call a bagel recipe in the US at 53% hydration, Since you are using Canadian flour with very high protein - i would say you Have made some odd looking but fine bagels:-)
For this kind of white bread and flour I would be at 72% hydration. That will open the crumb tremendously and give you the mouth feel you want. Since you are in the UK where it cold I would use 15% pre-fermented flour. I would do 4 sets of slap and folds (30 slaps each) 30 minutes apart with 2 sets of stretch and folds from the compass points only( 4 stretches each) on 45 minute intervals. Then refrigerate for 12-20 hours, Shape and bake with Mega Steam at 450 F for 15 minutes once the dough has risen 50% in volume. Do not let it double or even get close to it. Then take the steam out and bake it at 425 F convection this time until the bread hits 210 F on the inside.
That will give you the bread you are looking for
Happy SD baking