Ok, I'm new to sourdough breads. So far I've made 4, 2 pure levain and 2 with 0.2% instant yeast added. The latter 2 worked perfectly, of the 2 pure ones, 1 was inedible and didn't rise at all, 1 was ok but a little flat and a little too sour. (The utter failure was Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough, the mostly ok one was Ken Forkish's Overnight Country Blonde, and then I made each with the added yeast.)
My starter is now 3 weeks old and reliably doubles in 4-5 hours at 70 F, which from what I understand seems pretty active. 3 days ago I switched it to 60% hydration from 100%, both the failures were at the higher hydration and while it bubbled nicey, I was worried it was too weak to rise and I thought it would be easier to see it rise with a stiffer dough. The 4-5 hour doubling is with the 60% hydration starter.
I feed it twice a day, usually discarding all but 60 g, then adding 38 g KA Bread flour and 22 g water. (Slightly less than 60%, but some more water gets in when I wet my hands to mix the starter, so I figure it about works out.)
On to the Tartine part and the question. I thought I would try the Tartine method since the others weren't working well for me. It's going right now, but not well. I notice that Forkish pre-ferments 12% of his flour in his levain build and uses 16.67% seed starter. His levain goes 7-9 hours at room temp before mixing the final dough. Hamelman ferments 15% of his flour in the levain, uses 20% seed starter in the levain, and ferments for 12-16 hours. Chad Robertson builds his leaven with merely a tablespoon of seed starter to 200 g flour, which works out to about 8% (I worked this out using Forkish's measurements; he says 216 g starter = 13 tablespoons, so about 16.6 grams per tbsp divided by 200 g flour), and Chad ferments only 7.5% of the flour for 4-6 hours at "moderate room temperature". A mere 150 g levain is meant to rise 1000 g flour, and for this bread 500 g cooked oat porridge as well.
Given that I've been having problems with rising using larger amounts of levain and longer fermentations, it seemed unlikely to work for me. But I did the levain and it took 9 hours to pass the float test, so longer than he suggests but it passed. The final dough has now been fermenting for 2 hours and 45 minutes. (3 hrs 30 min if you count the 45 minute autolyse which has the levain in it.) It has not budged at all that I can tell and I see no indication of fermentation, no bubbles, no sourdough type smells.
I've checked the dough temperature each time I do a stretch and fold and it's maintained a temp of 81-82 F. I'm not surprised that it hasn't perceptibly risen yet given the tiny amount of leaven, but clearly other people have success. So, anyone got some insight?
It may take 6 - 7 hours to be proofed at room temperature, With low levain inoculation mounts, I have some SD breads take 12 hours to proof on the counter. Be patient and watch dough - not the clock.
Happy SD baking
If you are saving 60g starter and feeding 38g KA Bread flour and 22 g water, I think you are starving your starter which is making it too weak to do much. I would feed at least twice as much flour to the mass of hungry starter, and enough water to keep things moving at a consistency you are comfortable with (I feed my room temp starter twice a day at 100% hydration and it works just fine). Give it a few days with more food, then try again. I bet it will bounce right up and get nice and happy. Whole grain flours (wheat/rye) also make for better food than just bread flour.
I thought you had to feed with a minimum of twice the flour that's in the seed. I'm trying to remember now which method I based it off of I've read so many, but it was a maintenance schedule of 50 grams 100% hydration starter, and feeding with 50 grams flour and 50 grams water. I just changed the water part to maintain a stiffer culture and since he doubles rapidly afterwards I didn't think it was the problem. But I'll try with more flour in the feedings. So for your 100% hydration culture you would take say 50 g and add 100 g flour and 100 g water?
Just so we're on the same page to reiterate:
If you feed 50 grams hungry starter 50 grams of flour and 50 grams water that's a 1:1:1 feed - which is not enough, especially for a room temp maintained starter. I feed at least 1:2:2 so for 50 grams starter, that's 100 grams fresh flour and 100 grams water. If you want to lower the hydration to 60%, then cut back the water to 60 grams. Good luck.
starter 38g of flour and 22 g of water no problem but it should double in 4 hours and be collapsing in 6. If you fed it that way 4-6 times a day it would be OK. 12 hour feedings at those mounts is not enough to be really active and in top shape. I would consider keeping 30 g of starter, instead if 60 and feeding that 38 g of flour and 22 g of water and do that twice day. A 3 week old starter is still very young and not up to full strength.
I couldn't find much on keeping a levain at room temp, everything is geared for people who want to keep it in the fridge, but I'm baking just about everyday. How long do you suppose it should take to get up to snuff with proper feedings?
This is how the semi-successful Ken Forkish Overnight Country Blonde turned out:
[url=http://flic.kr/p/kv8xcH]
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since it has been recently doubling here is what I did for a 1,000 g loaf with 15% levain. The first feeding is 4 hours before the 2nd. then I let the levain double after the 2nd feeding and then did the 3rd and let it double again throwing nothing away. If it doubles at the12 hour mark it is ready to use. This gives you a 100% hydration levain. If it works then you can use it and make another one at 66% hydration for the fridge seed starter if you want.
The last feeding for water would be 15 instead if 40. This gives you 125 g of 66% hydration starter. The only difference is that once the volume sises 25% after the 3rd feeding that is when you refrigerate it -instead if letting it double.
150
Nice photography as well. You should be proud!
I'd give the new starter feeding schedule a few days to settle in, then try again.
On the plus side, even if it hasn't been able to raise my bread, the levain has made the best waffles I've ever had.