I am making my first sourdough loaf today. I'm a total novice so please be nice to me :) Do most people here who use a regular oven bake on a baking stone and do you add water to the oven for moisture?
I use chad robinsons method of a cast-iron double cooker with awesome results from day 1. When baking with stones for multiple loafs I steam the oven with on of those hand held steam cleaners.
I use my oven, no cloche, baking stone and some water.
I have these 2 small cast iron pans that were given to me as part of a gimmicky little individual brownie pan kind of thing. I put those on the floor of my oven, preheat the oven and stone for a while (I have an infrared so I just do it till its at temperature) and then put my loaves in. I pour water on the cast iron pans and close the door.
I have a bottom heated gas oven so when I add water for more steam I open the broiler door (closest to the floor) and put water on the broiler pan. It's super hot down there so it steams instantly and gives a nice blast.
It is hard getting the steam right on gas ovens though. The air vent that allows the fumes and heat to disperse is massive. Steam doesn't stay in the oven long.
a couple of Sylvia's steaming pans. Roll up a kitchen towel and put it in a pyrex loaf pan, fill the loaf pan 1/4 full of water and microwave it till the water boils, then put it into the oven right befpore th bread goes in. No Pyrex? Use a metal pan with the towell and fill it half way with water and place it in the oven bottom rack when you pre heat it will be boiling awasy with tne oven temp is right for baking andnthe stone is hot - 20 minutes after your oven beeps that it is at temperature. Don't forget the stone lags the oven temperture by 2 minutes. You can also use a 12 " cast iron skillet full of lava rocks and 1/4 full of water places in the oven at preheat. Then throw a little more water 1/4 C on the rocks right after you load the bread - donlt get any on your oven glass window in teh door or you will might crack it.
I use one of Sylvia's steaming pans and a CI skillet with lava rocks for my bread bakes. Plenty of steam - almost as good as baking in a Dutch Oven. You can also overturn a large oven safe bowl over the bread on a stone - en cloche - which replicates a full DO. There are lots of ways to make steam that work well.
I use a regular oven. Today I baked a sourdough preheating the oven and using the bottom shelf. I placed my dough in a big thin deep saucepan or dutch oven (plastic handles removed) on baking parchment (or butter and flour inside) scored the dough and covered the top of the pot with a double layer of alu-foil tight but just crimped on the edges so I can easily remove it half way into the bake. That traps the steam needed for the crust. Can mist the underside of the foil if you like before covering the pot. No stone, and no pan of steam to fool with. Half way thru the baking time, remove the foil cover and rotate the pan. Any steam in the oven is also released and the crust starts to brown. If the bottom of your baking pan is dark colored and non-reflective take the opportunity to move the loaf up a notch in the oven.
no stone - no worries. Just put two rimmed cookies sheets together and turn them over. Bake bread on the bottoms. Works nearly as well as a stone. Truth be told, I've even baked bread right on the oven racks on parchment paper, if it was not so high in hydration and the skin was pulled tight when shaping the loaf. Folks here bake just about every way possible - there is no right way. Turkey Roasters are great, Dutch ovens of all minds, tins, Pullman's glass bake ware, stones, iron plates , aluminum foil, glazed and unglazed clay pots and bakers.....you name it and someone here has baked really bread bread with it . Amazing really.
Thanks for the great info all! I do have a couple of pizza stones as I do make pizzas a lot and sometimes naan. I baked the sourdough on the pizza stone covered with a large pot for half the time, then removed the pot. This method seemed to work fine. The resulting bread was very dense and did not change shape the way I expected in the oven, but I think this was definitely my process n preparing it, as the bake was even and the bread was moist with a nice crust. I think I probably wasn't patient enough. I roughly followed a spelt sourdough I saw here but perhaps did not let it raise enough.
...was very dense and did not change shape the way I expected in the oven...
That makes me think you could have gotten the bread into the oven sooner. Especially with spelt flour. Next time try sooner and see if there's a difference. First sourdough loaves do tend to be more underproofed than overproofed on average but we might be able to say more if you show us a close up crumb shot. And if you can, which recipe did you follow?
the gluten adding to collapse. Soaking the bran, longer "wet time" (as I like to call it) tends to help soften the bran and I think make it healthier than unsoaked bran. The recipe link sounds good, but it is for white spelt or sifted flour, without the bran flecks and uses a rye starter inoculation. The final recipe is 240g starter to 220g fresh flour translates into fast fermenting. You could try mixing up the recipe, kneading well and then immediately chilling it 6 hrs or overnight and take it out the next day to warm up with your hands folding every 15 to 20 minutes to get some shape to the dough. It may behave itself this time.
The next day, if you find it riping and falling apart (outside of being just cold and stiff) forget the rest of the folds and just fold to shape and roll the dough into fresh flour (or raw seeds, rolled grain or nuts) so you can pick it up and pack it into a buttered and floured bread tin. Let it rise just a little bit and don't let it double, cover with foil tent and bake in a hot oven. If it bakes out dense, let it cool first. Wrap or cover and cut thin the next day for a new experience in bread! Also jump over the idea that a dense bread is a bad bread. It all has to do with flavour! A bread with a tighter crumb is eaten a little differently, more open faced, something more to learn!
I should have said I used a wholemeal spelt starter but white spelt flour for the rest.
Thanks for the advice. I'm still a novice so I'll keep trying different methods and playing around with it. I don't understand much about how the percentages effect the bread yet but Im sure I will learn in time from you guys :)
bran, are the tiny brown flecks in the flour. They tend to be tougher and have sharp edges. But you have them in the starter so that does soften them up. ahead of time. So... no bran problems. Good to know.
Learning from us is one thing, learning from you starter is another. Take the time to play with your starter. Take a little active starter and blend with different amounts of water and flour with salt, imitate a bread recipe only on a very small scale. Dinner roll size. Then watch the little dough ball rise and double, fold it over and play with it. Let it rise some more and record your findings. Shape it, score it. Let it over rise and play with it some more. Look at how the dough falls apart. How it smells, acts and looses it shape. Is it sticky? Does it dry out? Important is to notice in your ambient temperatures how the fermentation progresses. When does it start to double? How well is the gas distributed? Dig out a knife or bench scraper and cut the dough to look at the gas bubbles. Then look at the dough between the gas bubbles. Stick it back together and watch it some more. Play around and investigate this dough in front of you. Does the surface dry out? Mist it with a sprayer. What does that do? Tip a glass bowl over it and watch it go up and then spread out. Fold it so it stands high and watch it sag. Watch how surface tension relaxes after getting it tight. Fold it again and again until it wants to rip. Get to know how the dough changes with time. What happens when the dough falls apart? Can you fold it back together? Add more flour to half of it and see if you can get it to rise some more. Bake them and see how they compare, cut in half and compare. Lots of things to learn from your spelt starter! Let it teach you! Have fun! :)
I use chad robinsons method of a cast-iron double cooker with awesome results from day 1. When baking with stones for multiple loafs I steam the oven with on of those hand held steam cleaners.
I use my oven, no cloche, baking stone and some water.
I have these 2 small cast iron pans that were given to me as part of a gimmicky little individual brownie pan kind of thing. I put those on the floor of my oven, preheat the oven and stone for a while (I have an infrared so I just do it till its at temperature) and then put my loaves in. I pour water on the cast iron pans and close the door.
I have a bottom heated gas oven so when I add water for more steam I open the broiler door (closest to the floor) and put water on the broiler pan. It's super hot down there so it steams instantly and gives a nice blast.
It is hard getting the steam right on gas ovens though. The air vent that allows the fumes and heat to disperse is massive. Steam doesn't stay in the oven long.
D
www.allthingswheat.com
a couple of Sylvia's steaming pans. Roll up a kitchen towel and put it in a pyrex loaf pan, fill the loaf pan 1/4 full of water and microwave it till the water boils, then put it into the oven right befpore th bread goes in. No Pyrex? Use a metal pan with the towell and fill it half way with water and place it in the oven bottom rack when you pre heat it will be boiling awasy with tne oven temp is right for baking andnthe stone is hot - 20 minutes after your oven beeps that it is at temperature. Don't forget the stone lags the oven temperture by 2 minutes. You can also use a 12 " cast iron skillet full of lava rocks and 1/4 full of water places in the oven at preheat. Then throw a little more water 1/4 C on the rocks right after you load the bread - donlt get any on your oven glass window in teh door or you will might crack it.
I use one of Sylvia's steaming pans and a CI skillet with lava rocks for my bread bakes. Plenty of steam - almost as good as baking in a Dutch Oven. You can also overturn a large oven safe bowl over the bread on a stone - en cloche - which replicates a full DO. There are lots of ways to make steam that work well.
Happy baking.
I use a regular oven. Today I baked a sourdough preheating the oven and using the bottom shelf. I placed my dough in a big thin deep saucepan or dutch oven (plastic handles removed) on baking parchment (or butter and flour inside) scored the dough and covered the top of the pot with a double layer of alu-foil tight but just crimped on the edges so I can easily remove it half way into the bake. That traps the steam needed for the crust. Can mist the underside of the foil if you like before covering the pot. No stone, and no pan of steam to fool with. Half way thru the baking time, remove the foil cover and rotate the pan. Any steam in the oven is also released and the crust starts to brown. If the bottom of your baking pan is dark colored and non-reflective take the opportunity to move the loaf up a notch in the oven.
:)
no stone - no worries. Just put two rimmed cookies sheets together and turn them over. Bake bread on the bottoms. Works nearly as well as a stone. Truth be told, I've even baked bread right on the oven racks on parchment paper, if it was not so high in hydration and the skin was pulled tight when shaping the loaf. Folks here bake just about every way possible - there is no right way. Turkey Roasters are great, Dutch ovens of all minds, tins, Pullman's glass bake ware, stones, iron plates , aluminum foil, glazed and unglazed clay pots and bakers.....you name it and someone here has baked really bread bread with it . Amazing really.
Happy baking
Thanks for the great info all! I do have a couple of pizza stones as I do make pizzas a lot and sometimes naan. I baked the sourdough on the pizza stone covered with a large pot for half the time, then removed the pot. This method seemed to work fine. The resulting bread was very dense and did not change shape the way I expected in the oven, but I think this was definitely my process n preparing it, as the bake was even and the bread was moist with a nice crust. I think I probably wasn't patient enough. I roughly followed a spelt sourdough I saw here but perhaps did not let it raise enough.
That makes me think you could have gotten the bread into the oven sooner. Especially with spelt flour. Next time try sooner and see if there's a difference. First sourdough loaves do tend to be more underproofed than overproofed on average but we might be able to say more if you show us a close up crumb shot. And if you can, which recipe did you follow?
I don't have a photo sorry. We ate some yesterday and the rest was dog food and breadcrumbs :S
I used this:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/30615/white-spelt-sourdough
with a wholemeal spelt starter. It's different to other recipes I've seen but looked good. Unfortunately it just didn't work or me :(
I'd like to try a wholemeal spelt bread with this starter also, if anyone has any recommendations.
the gluten adding to collapse. Soaking the bran, longer "wet time" (as I like to call it) tends to help soften the bran and I think make it healthier than unsoaked bran. The recipe link sounds good, but it is for white spelt or sifted flour, without the bran flecks and uses a rye starter inoculation. The final recipe is 240g starter to 220g fresh flour translates into fast fermenting. You could try mixing up the recipe, kneading well and then immediately chilling it 6 hrs or overnight and take it out the next day to warm up with your hands folding every 15 to 20 minutes to get some shape to the dough. It may behave itself this time.
I'm confused by what you mean about bran?
I should have said I used a wholemeal spelt starter but white spelt flour for the rest.
Thanks for the advice. I'm still a novice so I'll keep trying different methods and playing around with it. I don't understand much about how the percentages effect the bread yet but Im sure I will learn in time from you guys :)
bran, are the tiny brown flecks in the flour. They tend to be tougher and have sharp edges. But you have them in the starter so that does soften them up. ahead of time. So... no bran problems. Good to know.
Learning from us is one thing, learning from you starter is another. Take the time to play with your starter. Take a little active starter and blend with different amounts of water and flour with salt, imitate a bread recipe only on a very small scale. Dinner roll size. Then watch the little dough ball rise and double, fold it over and play with it. Let it rise some more and record your findings. Shape it, score it. Let it over rise and play with it some more. Look at how the dough falls apart. How it smells, acts and looses it shape. Is it sticky? Does it dry out? Important is to notice in your ambient temperatures how the fermentation progresses. When does it start to double? How well is the gas distributed? Dig out a knife or bench scraper and cut the dough to look at the gas bubbles. Then look at the dough between the gas bubbles. Stick it back together and watch it some more. Play around and investigate this dough in front of you. Does the surface dry out? Mist it with a sprayer. What does that do? Tip a glass bowl over it and watch it go up and then spread out. Fold it so it stands high and watch it sag. Watch how surface tension relaxes after getting it tight. Fold it again and again until it wants to rip. Get to know how the dough changes with time. What happens when the dough falls apart? Can you fold it back together? Add more flour to half of it and see if you can get it to rise some more. Bake them and see how they compare, cut in half and compare. Lots of things to learn from your spelt starter! Let it teach you! Have fun! :)