I have a sourdough recipe that I really like but it doesn't contain any fat. I would like to add enough to extend the life of the bread but not change all the characteristics too much.
What is the typical baker's % range for fats in sourdough?
What other changes will the addition of fat cause?
Will different fats react differently (i.e shortening vs oil vs butter)?
Do I count the fats as part of hydration (i.e. does it affect the amount of water I should use in the recipe)?
I don't know that there is a typical amount of fat in the dough. I use 3% butter (based on weight of flour) for my sandwich loaves. More might be used for some sweet doughs, and certainly the typical loaf of the purist, artisan bread has none.
Fats will make the crumb softer, and the raw dough more extensible. Yes different fats will behave differently. A stick of butter has about 1/4 to 1/2 tspn of salt as well as about an ounce of water. This might be taken in consideration, if deemed important.
I hope this helps.
Ford
i add approx 1 - 2 T. olive oil to my sourdough loaves. this has helped to extend the shelf life a little. i have recently started adding 1 T soy lecithin. this has helped to prevent mold growth now that the weather is becoming warmer in phoenix.
take care, claudia
Sourdough is a leavening 'agent'. In breads commercial or wild yeast are used to leaven the dough.
Sourdough is just another name for wild yeast.
A dough that uses sourdough instead of commercial yeast can be a 'lean' dough or an enriched dough. A lean dough contains nothing but flour, salt, water and sourdough - which is essentially flour and water. An enriched dough contains all of the above and can include oil, sweetener plus other ingredients.
Therefore a sourdough recipe can include anything you want to put into it to get the results you want. Pretty flexible stuff. :-)
Tastes good too!
The range is 2% - 3% of the total flour weight. I would start with 2%.
Softer crust. You may have trouble getting a crackly crust.
I typically use either olive oil or home-rendered lard. At 2% of the total flour weight, I don't really notice a difference between the two. Butter, of course, is not pure fat. To get pure butter fat you would have to make clarified butter. I seldom bother doing this.
In practically all bread formulae I've seen, fat is not included in the calculation of hydration. Instead, the fat is listed as a separate ingredient, as a percentage of the total flour weight.
When it comes to adjusting the amount of water used in a formula that did not, originally, include fat, my advice would be [i]not[/i] to adjust the hydration automatically. Assuming the oil is kept to about 2% of TFW, try doing your final kneading by hand and see if the developed dough has a feel similar to what you're used to. You may want to add a [i]small amount[/i] of flour during this stage. IMHO, experimentation will serve you best.
Thanks. That was very helpful.
Do you think that adding butter will affect the sourness of the bread?
No - assuming your butter is about 2% of the total flour weight.
The sourness of your bread should primarily come from the sourness of your sourdough starter and your fermentation methods. Beyond this, I can't really help you without knowing the actual recipe and methods you're using.
I have assumed that the sourdough formula you wish to modify is a simple one - just sourdough starter, flour, water and salt (typically called a "lean dough"). My responses to you are based that assumption. My comments may not be helpful for sourdough recipes that have a more elaborate list of ingredients.
The adage "do not presume to assume" is relevant here, so I think I should bow out of this thread at this point.
Best of luck to you in your bread baking. Do let us know how your experiments and modifications work for you. - SF
life of the bread? I'm not so sure.
Hi Mini,
Be assured that fats do indeed extend the shelf life of breads. The mass market industrial bakeries rely on it as well as other additives to help deliver a moist, viable product to the consumer days after it's been baked. This has been the case for 70+ years now from what I can gather. The inclusion of some form of fat in the mix results in a tighter more closed cell structure resulting in less moisture loss over the same period of time as a loaf made without including any fat in the mix would have. My guess is that this has a lot to with why there's been such an interest in 'lean' mix breads over the last 20 years or so. People are trying to reduce fat intake and discovering that well made bread doesn't need anything more than flour, salt, water, and yeast in order to make the same kind of bread our ancestors ate and thrived on.
Franko
[quote="on Mar 28 Mini Oven"]Has it been shown that oil, fat, etc actually extends the life of the bread? I'm not so sure.[/quote]
Hi Mini
I'm well aware of your baking expertise and am somewhat hesitant to reply. However, in response to your comment (and based on my own baking experience) I would say...
[b]YES[/b] - adding a fat (liquid - an oil - or solid - lard or butter) [i]does[/i] keep the crumb from drying out. Assuming the fat is only a small amount of the total flour weight, in my experience, it will keep the crumb tender for an extra one or two days.
IMHO, a typical "lean" bread recipe (wheat flour, water, salt and yeast - either made with sourdough starter or a preferment made with commercial yeast) is best eaten within (max) 2 days.
Also IMHO, modifying a simple lean bread recipe by adding fat (at 2% - 3% of the total flour weight) preserves the softness of the crumb for an additional day or two.
As I'm sure you're well aware, adding fat is not the only way to extend shelf life. Adding liquid sweetener (honey, molasses, barley malt syrup, etc) also has the same effect, since these ingredients are [i]hydroscopic[/i].
Adding a small amount of flour milled from beans has a similar effect. In commercial baking, soy flour is most common. In my home baking, I have found that soy flour or garbanzo flour works well. Also, adding barley flour (though barley is not a legume) has a similar effect.
I do confess to having become somewhat of a bread snob. I bake a variety of breads and have my personal opinion of the best window in which they can be eaten. However, I do (on a very small scale) sell some of my more popular breads and I find that those who buy are less disciminating than I am. They think the bread tastes just fine for 2 - 3 days longer than I would.
[b]What is [u]your[/u] experience?[/b]. Would love to know. Thanks - SF
Side note: Even granulated sugar is hygroscopic, at least after mixing.
I just did a recipe and omitted the granulated sugar(about 10% flour weight) that I usually use and the bread seemed noticeably drier and firmer than the complete recipe(with granulated sugar). I usually let these rolls set out, bagged, at room temp for a day or so and they stay reasonably fresh for that time.
The rolls without the sugar, I felt needed to be put in the freezer after they had been sitting, bagged, for just half a day or so.
My personal- maybe unscientific, maybe incorrect- observation.
...I just didn't want to muddy my post with too many details.
Just curious, but how do you manage to reply to TFL posts in such a swift manner? Do you monitor TFL in some way?
thanks - SF
It adds a nice mellowness to any bread-kind of like the difference between a broth soup and a cream soup. But then, my sourdough is only mildly tangy and it really is a function of a long rise. All my other "sourdough" based breads are not at all tangy.I make whoile wheat,a fruited Breakfast Bread with cardamom and coriander,Multigrain,White sandwich and a sandwich Potato Rye.
I didn't "see" several of these posts when I posted.Perhaps a function of getting world-wide responses and the server puts them in chronological order!
Adding oil or fat seems to make my bread stay softer longer than lean bread would. It probably still molds/stales in the same time frame but just stays softer while doing so.
I didn't "see" several of these posts when I posted.
That's just how "the web" works, whether or not it's "world-wide" and whether or not it's TFL.
If you and I both start posting a response about the same time, neither of us will see the other's response ...simply because it's not done yet! When we both finish, the thread has to do something with both responses, and arranging them according to who finished first seems as good as any.
On the homepage in the left column under the searchbox and your user name is "Messages". I sent you a message!
PSShould have checked my messages first! I got yours after I sent mine. Your welcome!