I decided to go a different way of my usual sourdough milk bread that is 50/50 AP flour and BF. I did 50/50 WW and BF instead. I thought I read a long time ago that WW needs to be soaked before doing anything so I soaked the WW with my milk (can't remember how much) for 30 minutes then added the BF and starter, following my recipe as usual after that. The bread was really soft and stretched immensely so I thought it was successful. Now I'm reading that people scald their wholw wheat or even rye. Is this just another option? Does it make a big difference? And what if I want to do 100% WW sandwich bread? Do I soak/scalding all the flour?
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Anything is a good option if it helps out. Enjoy!
That is a good point that I didn't think of haha.
It's unusual to scald all the flour, but scalding a part of it can improve the texture and flavor of the loaf, even with all white flour. Don't count on the scalded part contributing to the gluten activity. It's also possible to sift out the bran from whole grain flour and soak or scald that. You can also gently cook part of the flour with part of the liquid at about 160 deg F for some time (much higher temperature and the enzymes become inactivated). This helps enzymes in the flour convert some starch to sugars and can enhance the flavor.
Search (in TFL or elsewhere) for "tangzhong" or "yudane" to see how other bakers use some of these techniques.
The soaking you did sounds like it worked well. So there's no good reason to change unless you like to experiment. You may be able to get better results, but maybe not enough better to make it worthwhile, depending on your tastes and interest in experimenting.
TomP
The purpose of autolyse is to give the flour time to fully absorb the liquid before it is kneaded (only). People who try to tell you that it has something to do with enzymes degrading gluten are repeating a wives tale (that is still taught in many cooking schools where they never actually do the experiment). My theory is that European flours or yore were not very strong and could not tolerate a lot of mixing so that there was an advantage to letting the flour fully absorb the water before beginning to mix (yore was from immediately post WWII to mid 1950's). A typical time for autolyse is around 20 minutes. Beyond that there is not much benefit though there are some who suggest overnight or longer which is pretty easy to prove to yourself is unnecessary (autolyse one batch overnight cold then bring it back to room temperature while you autolyse a second batch for 30 min, then compare the bread made from each batch).
Tangzhong is the same as scalding. Tangzhong is a Chinese technique that combines a small fraction of the flour (<=5%) with 5X water (by weight) and whisking until the mixture reaches 65°C (149°F) which is the gelatinization temperature for wheat flour (but no higher). Flours made from other grains have different gelatinization temperatures (I think teff is the highest). After a couple of trials using a thermometer you will know when you are there by the texture of the mixture. There are books and lots of articles about tangzhong, and it is a great tool to have at your disposal when you choose to use it. I would suggest that it is not appropriate for sourdough unless you are just using the levain for flavor. The texture will be dramatically different from the classic open crumb of a sourdough loaf.
Hi doc, just wanted to check your current opinion, in 2018 I recall you having a discussion here with Mariana about whether or how much gluten increase we get with time in a resting dough (as measured in the dough wash). I think your response at the time was to test it experimentally.
As a home baker I'm patient enough to wait and let the gluten development take place, subjectively the dough feels stronger with more time, which I assume leads to a better outcome.
Have never done a side by side comparison, often with an overnight autolyse I keep the dough chilled which might be confounding.
I suspect that personal preferences might push you one way or the other but personal preferences are principal components of why we bake our own bread. Local optimization is rewarded!
I do 100% fresh milled grain. I've scalded and done overnight cold ferments. I could not really say one tasted better than the other. They tasted slightly different, but that's it. Scalding is a pain, so I just overnight now.
Experiment after experiment has shown that autolyse is a physical phenomenon and is not driven by biology. I don’t have a lot of experience with home-milled flour but everything I have read indicates that there are chemical processes that require time to complete before the flour is fully stabilized and exhibits its best performance in a roll (pun intended).
Mark Bittman’s no knead formulations depend on the natural formation of gluten in wet flour to provide enough strength to hold the dough together without requiring a lot of externally generated shear forces. They work better when you use a high quality bread flour. I suspect that the overnight “autolyse” of freshly milled flour benefits from this same phenomenon. I also suspect that water absorption is pretty much complete thirty minutes in and the chemistry takes over perhaps with refrigeration slowing it down somewhat. You might try an 8 hr delay after wetting the flour and splitting the batch then run one half cold and the other half at room temperature and see if the dough properties are remarkably different (but you will have to let the refrigerated dough return to near room temperature to make a proper comparison).
Just flour, water, starter, and salt. So simple, how complex can it be? The answer, as we all appreciate, is very complex.
The pre-gelatinization of the starch that you get with scalding or tangzhong is another element that should probably be thought of as a separate process. I like to use it to get a softer crumb and I have a couple of formulations that include some sourdough for flavor but always yield a fine structure.
Complex - yes.
Simple - yes.
As with everything - pick one - proceed. Simple isn't it. Enjoy!
It is simple if you execute the process with a high level of discipline and precision. But if you get out of bounds and don’t understand the complexity, any error is irrecoverable. Any misunderstanding will lead you to make adjustments that take you in the wrong direction.