It seems that a build ratio of (for example) 1:4:4 means different things to different bakers. I have always worked to the convention of starter:flour:water - by weight of course - but others use starter:water:flour.
Of course in the above exampe it doesn't matter, but if the starter was 75% hydration it would be 1:4:3 or 1:3:4.
I realise there's not going to be a right or wrong here, but what do others think?
PS: A quick look at Full Proof Baking's Instagram pages suggests she's in my camp!
Lance
Some years back I asked the same question here. I came to the conclusion that on The Fresh Loaf it is Starter:Water:Flour.
Another source of confusion is the percentage of Levain. Many excellent bakers use the percentage of levain just as you would an ingredient. So 10% levain in a kilo of flour would equal to 100g levain. No matter what the hydration might be. We on The Fresh Loaf typically use Percentage of Pre-fermented flour. Which in my mind is the best choice, since it takes into account the hydration of the levain. The Bread Bakers Guild of America also uses this as their standard for formula calculations. So, 10 Percent Pre-ferment Flour is 100g of FLOUR regardless of the hydration.
NOTE - I know Lance is aware of the above paragraph, but posted it for others that may not know.
I agree about pff, but all must bear in mind that pff refers to TOTAL flour, so if you have 100g of flour in your preferment, and 900g of flour in your main dough, then your pff is 10%. If you have 100g of flour in your preferment, and 1000g in the main dough, your pff is 9%
Lance
You make a very good distinction, Lance. That is quite often over looked.
Another common mistake is to not include ALL the pre-fermented flour when making the calculation. I frequently see the flour from the seed being missed. Although to be fair most of the time it is negligible. But I think if you're gonna do it that way then it pays to get it right.
I'm happy enough just going the ingredient route.
Which brings us to the great question: does 100g of levain at 50% hydration have more, less or the same "power" as 100g at 100%?
Lance
Firstly it depends what you mean when you say power. But if what you are asking is... "does the inoculation % (pre-fermented flour) directly relate to leavening power?" then the answer is no.
There are many variables but as a rule when you remove the acidity things move faster. There are knock on effects after that, that effect dough strength and degradation.
Michael, "does the inoculation % (pre-fermented flour) directly relate to leavening power?"
I may be getting ready to learn something, but common sense (it’s all I have to work with :-) ), tells me that the preferment with more flour contained within would be proportionally stronger. A 50% biga would be stronger than a 100% levain because the first has more flour than the latter.
I am not sure my thinking is correct, but I’m anxious to learn.
Danny
On one hand, my gut feel is that a stiffer levain will have more leavening power, but on the other hand, if there is more liquid because of higher hydration, then perhaps there is room in the aqueous phase for more yeast cells?
For those with intense curiosity, the Internet and forums like this are a phenomenal source of information.
Not only are most of my questions answered, but questions I never knew existed are brought to mind. Now, if only I could recall everything I’ve learned...
Stay curious, remain humble, and marvel at the things you learn.
Danny
That's right, wetter starters are characterised by higher cell numbers. But because they are more dilute they shutdown faster. They attain a lower pH faster. Amylase activity is affected by pH. Optimum is around 5.
Wetter means faster degradation and this has knock-on effect on how well a the dough can rise.
lower hydration enhances buffering capacity. Wetter does the opposite.
Decreasing inoculation % is a bit like increasing hydration
Had to look up “Buffering Capacity”.
“Lower hydration enhances buffering capacity.” It is more resistant to changes in PH.
“Wetter does the opposite.” (More susceptible to PH change)
This statement, I don’t comprehend. Please elaborate.
” Decreasing inoculation % is a bit like increasing hydration” (Using less culture is similar to using a wetter dough) I don’t understand how this works.
As a starter ferments its environment becomes more stressful.
By including less of it you dilute the stressors more as would increasing hydration.
Fist the disclaimer, this whole conversation is way above my head, in fact I am tempted to post a resized formula I did last night and ask the group where did I go a-"rye" (see what I did there?)
Back on track, Dan, I have heard tell, than a small amount of inoculation added to a large volume of unfermented flour/water will cause the yeast colony to begin rapid reproduction. I wonder if the converse would be true adding a large amount of mother will result in a lazy, lackadaisical rise?
Danny I don't get your argument about levain hydration, as it would be specified in the formula with both methods.
The spreadsheet takes into account the levain’s hydration.
Suppose a formula called for 25% pre-fermented flour, and the total flour is 1 kilo. The levain contains 250g flour, regardless of the hydration.
Now consider 2 possible levain/preferment hydrations, 100% and the other 50%.
The 100% levain uses 250g water and the 50% uses 125g. A difference or variable of 125g water.
One levain affects the hydration by 25%, the other - 12.5%
Had the levain or preferment been shown as an ingredient, none of the above would have been taken into account.
To each their own. But for me it will always be Percentage of Pre-fermented flour...
The spreadsheet below doesn’t take into account the hydration of the 25g of seed culture, but it could be setup that way.
Danny
As ingredients:
1. 100% hydration levain
Levain:
25g seed (unspecified hydration)
250g flour
250g water
Final dough:
750g flour
500g water
75% hydration not counting the seed.
2. stiff 50% hydration levain
levain.
25g (unspecified hydration)
250g flour
125g water
Final dough
750g flour
625g water.
The levain hydration is specified as shown in each example above. Total hydration is the same across the board but the water has moved to the final dough. I am only making the point that leavin hydration is not unknown as you were suggesting. It is specified as part of the formula.