I just wondered if people who are routinely baking with sourdough combined with yeast water find that they get similar results to those obtained by combining sourdough with commercial yeast. Or is there a special character that comes with the YW? If so, is it flavor, or texture, or both?
I'm also wondering if anyone is combining CLAS with yeast water.
I think it's interesting how new sourdough bakers often seem to be able to get the lactic acid going but have trouble getting the yeast component strong enough to raise the dough. I wonder if just adding yeast to the sourdough would help them. Or for that matter, adding yeast water. Or just not worrying about it, and continuing to use their sour ferments in combination with either commercial yeast or yeast water.
It seems like there is a steep sourdough entry curve for many, and people can become very discouraged and give up. Maybe there is a different way to define success with sourdough: thinking of it as primarily a flavor enhancer, and using other forms of yeast to raise the dough as needed. Of course I'm not suggesting that people who have successful active sourdoughs that have good leavening properties go this route. But not everyone who would like to bake sourdough bread fits that category.
The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book has two wild ferments in it: one, 'Miguel's Sour,' is a bit similar to CLAS: it's grown on rye and used with the addition of CY to raise the dough. The other is her Desem, which seems to be valued for the flavor enhancement and leavening properties, but is only barely, faintly sour.
These are just a few of my late-night ponderings after the first refreshing my baby CLAS and putting it to bed in the InstantPot, with hopes for a bake in the morning.
Goodnight, friends!
I’ve baked with SD and YW both separately and together in bakes for about 7 yrs. I make a separate YW levain with flour of choice and I sometimes just use YW as part or all of the liquid in a formula . I also make a SD levain in a container and. YW levain in a separate container and only combine them when I do the autolyse.
I have converted ADY recipes to YW with ease. I have not converted ADY to SD however.
The YW consistently without fail adds amazing tenderness and freshness to every bread I’ve used it in. YW will also add flavor depending on the item used to create the YW and how concentrated an amount of YW one uses. For instance banana YW has incredible flavor and raises bread at a wonderful rate. I store my Apple YW with orange peel to add acid which keeps it fresher longer and adds a lovely floral brioche type taste to my Challah . It adds a rich fragrance as well to the porridge bakes I have used it in.
I have not taken a portion of my SD starter and added YW so I can’t speak to that combo. I also have never added ADY to my SD but I did add a tiny amount of ADY to my Challah when I first converted it to YW to make sure it rose well. I found that the YW completely overshadowed the ADY and the Challah was a loaf reflecting YW characteristics not ADY.
I hope this answers part of your questions. c
Hi Trailrunner,
Thank you for your very informative response!
Is ADY commercial instant dry yeast? I think I'm getting that from context.
Your description of the effects of yeast water are enticing, to say the least. Can you recommend a post here (or elsewhere) that has a good description of different yeast waters and how to cultivate and maintain them? I looked at some of the resource pages on TFL but they seem pretty old: lots of broken links and no mention of yeast water. Things move so fast in the information era it is hard to keep resources updated.
Thanks again, Jess
there isn’t a good place to get info that I think is accurate on YW. I will tell you there is a Facebook YW forum for breadbaking . I joined it briefly. They are making alcohol based “ yeast water “ because they have the mistaken notion that one should seal the container and shake frequently to encourage the yeast growth. That is completely and totally inaccurate. The yeast is on the plant or fruit that one is growing. It is not in the air, one cannot capture yeast from the air as it isn’t an airborne substance. YW requires air to grow properly. It must be opened frequently and stirred to encourage the healthy growth of the yeast. It should never be sealed tightly. It can and will explode. An airlock is unnecessary as the YW in a jar with a loose lid is fine and remains healthy.
I have posted frequently on how to grow a healthy apple yeast water. I’m on vacation and have only my phone. When I get home next week. I will be glad to send you a short tutorial. c
I was roaming around in the TFL archives and came across a large, detailed and comprehensive compendium of info about yeast waters written by RonRay, back in 2011! A treasure from the vaults...
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23441/yeast-water-amp-other-wee-beastie-bubbles-no-math
Jess, I can’t add much to c’s comprehensive comment except to say 1) sd baking does not have a steep learning curve. If it did, hundreds of generations of wheat eaters would have to settle for crackers and pasta before the advent of CY. 2) Yes, YW can have pretty explosive leavening power. If I recall my very first TFL blog post, about a RYW semolina loaf, I said something like “this juice could raise the dead!”
Tom
I used this post successfully to start a Yeast water.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/35473/yw-primer
Hope this helps.
Thanks Cfraenkel. So much to learn, so little time...
tends to add color to the dough, softness, and particular aromas along with a slightly longer shelf life. Don't expect big flavour changes, using an apple yeast water will not give a bread that tastes like apple pie. The aroma will be very light but the crumb will be darker tan or even brown as if using dark flour. Drop in commercial yeast if you haven't the time to wait for the yeast water to work its magic.
I was really hoping someone would say what CLAS is. I'm sure it is a simple acronym that I probably know but haven't heard (or remembered).
What is CLAS?
If my starter is very active or I am using a biga or preferment, it raises a loaf very nicely all by itself. If I have been a bit neglectful of maintaining my starter and it is sluggish, I may add IDY to the dough to help it along. My dough is not very sour at all. Probably the manner of maintenance makes a difference.
If I am on a really tight schedule, I might add IDY to help shorten the production time.
I've used Fruit yeast water only a few times and my recipe method at the time was by making a preferment with it and gong from there. as I recall, it was a very nice loaf made with AP flour. As for keeping power-not usually a problem in my house at the time. Don't blink-it's gone! Wait.... did I really make a loaf of bread?? The household census is smaller and now I freeze a whole loaf for gradual consumption.
So sorry, I should have described it. It's an acronym for Concentrated Lactic Acid Sourdough.
It's a Russian technique for using a very wet rye-flour/water mix to cultivate just the lactic acid bacteria, without the yeast. You then use it in combination with commercial yeast or some other source of yeast to provide the leavening for the bread.
It's nice for people like me who are impatient, or kill regular sourdough starters. It makes delicious bread. If you search TFL for CLAS you will see Yippee's blog post about it, which is where I learned about it.