I need someone who knows more about sourdough starters to help me understand what's going on:
I've had a rye starter going for about a year now that I would feed once a day. It always smelled like a really nice, warm, sweet aroma when it was rising, would about triple in volume at the peak, then fall back down and start to smell more vinegar/alcoholic and get soupy as expected until I fed it again.
About two weeks ago, I was watching Full Proof Baking videos on YouTube and she said she feeds her starter two or three times a day with very small amounts like 5 or 8 or 15g of starter carried over each time. So I decided to try 2 feedings per day with these smaller amounts. Usually about 1:2:2, room temp water, and around 73deg inside the house. (I also ran out of rye flour and was using a ww/bread flour mix, but got more rye now).
So after about two weeks of this, things have become very strange. When I feed it, it only doubles in volume, and it doesn't fall back down! It reaches a peak at about double and just stays there and doesn't fall or get soupy even when I leave it for a few days.
Also, now it just always has what I would describe as a harsh fruit smell that is somewhat unpleasant, but not terrible. It has this same smell after I feed it, while it is rising, and I've tried just leaving it for about 3 days without doing anything and still the same smell, still hasn't fallen back down or gotten soupy.
Does anyone know what happened? Did I ruin my starter? Should I just leave it for a while or keeping feeding or throw it out and start a new one?
A. It warn't broke.
B. You fixed it anyways.
?
What happens if you go back to what was working?
Note: if there are no terrible smells, no mold, and clearly some kind of generally positive-looking activity happening, then it's probably still worth trying.
haha well I was getting tired of how much I was discarding so I wanted to try doing smaller amounts and also it sounded like she was saying it would be stronger if you feed it right around its peak instead of letting it collapse every time.
And yeah, I've been trying to just go back to what I used to do, but the weird thing is how it doesn't fall back down anymore and the smell is different. I've never had any issues before so I wasn't sure if this means something is wrong with it.
Maybe there's a bit less water in it than before. And maybe it is falling, but leaving a dome of "skin" on top that doesn't fall along with the rest, just balancing there from the strength of the slightly dried flour. When you think "It should have fallen by now", give it a little poke, and see if you have a fallen starter covered by a thin empty shell.
Thanks! I will try that.
Now that you mention it, it is possible that while I was trying her feeding schedule/amounts, I had gotten used to using slightly less water than I used to.
got any back ups?
When it smells weird right after feeding, I have to wonder if your starter picked up something from the ww it was fed and there is a little invasion going on. I would knock the dome down and beat some air into the starter. Let it ferment before feeding again. It may not have all the aromas of a pure rye starter. Rye flour can make a dome and not look like it fell but inside it has fallen. So poke it often looking inside.
Rye can buffer the acid in the starter waste but wheat cannot do such a good job. Maybe some of your colonies thought bad times were coming and went dormant for self preservation. The strange food and perhaps a few more strains were dancing in the starter. Whole wheat is loaded with more bacteria and yeast than fine flour or just plain starch. Hard to say what happened but something did. Maybe it has been half converted to a whole wheat starter. I know, just not the same. How long was it fed ww? Maybe keep feeding it a combo of wheat and rye and then slowly reduce the wheat out, lowering the amount with each successful feeding. Or wait out the initial balking and convert further to a wheat starter.
Suggestion: Next time you run out of rye flour, thicken it up with the last of the rye and tuck it into the fridge. It should be good for at least a week or two without feeding.
So you might have lost some colonies of good wee beasties with the feedings. They might have been diluted out before they woke up from their dormancy and there may be some strangers playing in there. You might get it back on track with consistency and time, a wee bit of warmth and patience, akin to starting a starter again.
I would also start growing a new rye starter. You can race them and compare them and it is more interesting than watching just one starter. Doesn't take much flour, just a few tablespoons and water to make a soft paste, cover with a tiny bit of water and let it sit a few days before adding small amounts of rye flour and water. Get it body temperature the first day to help get the bacterial chain of events rolling and then moderately warm (>75°F) the rest of the week. It shouldn't take as long as the first time.
Thank you so much for your thoughts! I think I will start a new one while I continue with this one.
It was about one week that I was feeding it whole wheat.
What would be the reason for slowly reducing out the whole wheat instead of all at once?
I don't mean to tease ... (OK, just a little... ☺️)
But - "Yes, I changed it, but I didn't actually want it to be different!" ?
Are you sure you don't like the new starter? Maybe you do! Have you baked anything with it?
1: starter now rises but does not fall... A starter begins to fall when it can't hold the bubbles anymore. It's an indicator that the yeasts have multiplied and eaten through the sugars. So the yeasts in a healthy starter reproduce enough and expel enough gas so the starter rises and falls. Yours isn't doing that. Ergo the yeast population isn't healthy.
2: it smells very fruity. Typical of a young starter. I'm thinking it's not acidic enough. Could this be from the increased feeds.Were you feeding it too much too soon and too often? You did go onto a timetable rather than follow the rhythm of the starter!
I'm thinking you've whittled down the yeast population due to a change in maintenance. Perhaps you should start another starter and in the meantime put this one to one side and see what happens over the next few days. Like you're in day 4 when creating a starter.
Perfect! This is exactly the kind of analysis I was looking for.
I think these were the kind of things I was wondering about without being to explain it like you. Thanks!