I must say this has turned out much better than my commercial yeast breads so, I think I didnt do really bad, it certainly looks much better than what I would expect from my first, it tasted fine too, very slightly sour and mostly tasty though the crumb could be less dense, less gummy and the crust less hard more crispy for my liking. The latter was probably because I over baked? And wonder what I need to change to get a lighter more tasty crumb, maybe reduce wwf? It also didnt rise during proofing... wonder how that affects the final product...? Heres the recipe I loosely followed: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/ I used whole wheat flour apf and bf in equal quantities and 5% rye flour. Reduced hydration to 63% and levain to 17%. 15 hr autolyse. An 8 to 10 hr fermentation with 3 sets of dough agitation- a stand mixer did the first 2 and hand kneading of 3rd. I think the dough expanded and looked awesome during and at the end of fermentation when I was preshaping - held its shape well, resisted stretching (I could see ever so light bubbles and it seemed strong so was too scared to deflate it while shaping). Went in the refrigerator for a 12 hr proofing and almost 45-50min of baking at 200-220°C. First 30 min covered - thats how I got that awesome oven spring (thats what u guys call it right when it domes out in the oven?). I'm totally not sourdough savy nor bread savy so if you see something here that could be better, please share ur opinion criticism.. anything.
PS. I forgot to score it.
Lovely first sourdough loaf. Got a good rise and your starter certainly works a treat. Nice!
Here are some thoughts on how I'd tackle the recipe...
1. 15 hour autolyse is a bit much and unnecessary. 30min-1hr should be just fine.
2. At 17% starter I'd be able to get the bulk ferment done in 3-5 hours.
3. Doing a pre-shape, letting it rest for 20 minutes and then a final shape (making sure to knock the big bubbles out while keeping the smaller ones) will help with crumb structure.
4. Scoring will help the dough reach it's optimal oven spring.
This is a really great first sourdough. Enjoy!
15 hours autolyse? That seems a very long time. Read about the process at http://www.northwestsourdough.com/experiments-with-autolyse-autolysis/ to get a better understanding of what autolyse is .
I would think that the fermentation time looks pretty long unless it was all in the refrigerator. . . Likewise I would guess that the proofing was also refrigerator cool? If the bread was gummy I doubt that you over baked, but under baked. I find that lots of steam helps make a crisper crust.
Keep on baking and you're sure to get better, and it's not just "you guys" that call it oven spring, it's "us guys"...you have joined the company of Bakers!
Regards,
Captain Foulweather
Well done. It looks a bit pale so that might explain the gummy crumb. Get an instant read thermometer and bake it to 207 F on the inside. Brown food tastes good as Anne Burrell says so a bolder bake will make the bread taste better too and you will kill two brds with a longer bake - better flavor and no gummy inside.
As your starter matures, you will get better results. Since your loaf sprang but diddn't blow out on the top, sides or bottom is was likely over fermented / over proofed and ended up too pooped to pop, spring and bloom like it should for a bread not scored.
I'm guessing that just a few more bakes will get to a very nice bread indeed!
Well done and happy baking.
I baked the same recipe today and went for a much darker crust (212F internal) and ended up with the same (almost exact same) gummy texture. When I waited awhile after baking (5hr after bake) the gumminess was reduced presumably by drying out slightly. Could the gumminess be from something else?
If you read the comments section of the recipe, you will find that the original bread is supposed to be a little gummy due to the high hydration. But I had reduced hydration and still ended up with a little gummy crumb.
I tried the same recipe with a few changes including a higher hydration and I ended up with a more even and very dense bread with very little oven spring... I think if you bake using more white flour not caring for the big holes, it wont be as gummy.
Thanks all! Really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I have a few questions:
Abe - all ur comments are very helpful - now when you say at 17% starter I'd be able to get the bulk ferment done in 3-5 hours, how do you decide that the dough is fermented enough? Nearly double in size or presence of lots of bubbles and what about the strength, should it spring back when you poke? I looked for bubbles at the bottom of the glass container it was placed in, among other things..
Captain fowl n dabrown, I probably did underbake it .. but as I mentioned the crust was hard rather than crisp while insides remained a bit gummy. Do you think I could have avoided this problem with a higher hydration dough besides scoring? More steam=higher rise=lighter loaf?
The long autolyse was due to an unavoidable emergency while long fermentation was due to lack of knowledge. Going across another website, I learnt that my dough may well have been underproofed given the signs it exhibits. I will also mention for the record what I learnt about my other mistakes (I might come back and read this when I bake again).
My hand kneading skills are actually very bad, whats a better alternative to slap n fold?
There were also some mishapen cracks underneath and I should have degassed it better after fermentation.
I look for obvious signs of a ready dough. Aereated and billowy with good elasticity and extensibility. You might also feel a subtle change in the feel of the dough. Doubling isn't always an exact indicator.
Some great lessons and videos from Trevor J Wilson here http://www.breadwerx.com
Highly recommended.
So I baked one more loaf with all same specs as my 1st recipe but with a few changes here and there. Used less wwf, 1hr autolyse and increased the hydration to 70% (my previous loaf was slightly dry and chewy). It was certainly not looking good at the end of 3 hours of periodic kneading and resting (sticky, lumpy, no rise, tearing easily), so let it ferment for 5 hours and left it for a longer bulk ferment in the refrigerator. Morning, it had no significant rise but I punched, kneaded shaped, the elasticity was good (sprang back immidietely when poked), let it rest for atleast 2 hours before baking and what I got was a tasty bread with horrible mouthfeel, a very dense & chewy but more moist crumb, a hard crust (the loaf was pale even after 30 minutes of baking as before so had to bake for really long).
I forgot to score again :-/ ...
Will bake the same thing again, wondering what all I need to change besides not forgeting to score and probably kneading more?
And go for a plain white bread sourdough. I say plain but the following recipe from My Weekend Bakery is really delicious https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/sourdough-pain-naturel/
It has everything from the levain build and when to stretch and fold in the recipe etc.
A good trick for scoring is to final proof seam side down so it forms a natural scoring when taken out of the banneton.