Earlier I took a picture of two of my starters to post a question here tonight, and I just read Lechem's post about his Frankenstein starter. Interesting.
OK, so these two starters were fed within 45 minutes of each other today, and this picture was taken about 7-1/2 hours from feedings. The one on the right is my original, about 4-5 months old. I've baked a lot of bread with it and it's very predictable. With even slight variations in temperature, I can predict when it will start to fall and plan my baking around that.
The one on the left is only two weeks old. I only started it to do a blog post for some friends and it behaved different from the two I've made before (now reading Lechem's post and responses that part makes sense).So once it was alive and active and I had baked a couple of loaves with it for my blog, I thought now what am I going to do with this? Because it's like a pet, I can't just throw it away (I know, maybe I'm strange). So that very night, in my Tartine thread, Elodie mentioned the makeup of this starter recipe:
currently are 2 parts Robin Hood AP bleached, to 1 part each, dark rye, and stone ground whole wheat
So I thought I'd morph my starter into that. Note that was 4 days ago. So I fed it that way for 2 days and it became mutant, rising and falling like there was no tomorrow. It got to the point where I could feed it every 4 hours, so there was no way to plan a dough in the morning with that starter. After only 2 days I backed off on the rye and fed it 50/50 white and WW, and it's actually gotten worse. Even everything I bake with it is affected. I have to retard dough during ferment after 2 hours. I can see a huge difference in the size of the ball between 2nd and 3rd S&F (60 & 90 mins after mixing). I baked a loaf with it today, 400 gms flour, 265 gms of 85 deg water, 7 gms of salt and 90 gms of the starter just as it starts to drop. That loaf had such oven spring it stuck to the top of my combo cooker.
Now, these two starters are 100% hydration, the old (right) one is all white and the one on the left is roughly 50/50 with likely traces of rye. They both live in the cabinet over the fridge, literally less than a foot apart.
Why would they act so different? I know rye and WW are better for yeasty-beasties than white, but to this extent?
I know from Lechem's thread there may be some "colonization" of the kitchen by cultures of one sort or another, but wouldn't that affect both starters?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Jamie
I don't know the answer, but I'm here listening in the hopes that someone will have some insight. Fascinating!
I want some if that starter! Hitting the kid of the pot is my dream!
most likely each is unique. When the starter is forming and the various bacteria and yeasts are moving and multiplying among themselves to sort out a relationship that works for survival, depending on the conditions, one group or another will succeed or fail. The starter when new is rather unstable and can shift dramatically in the first two weeks. Depending on how it is maintained, the starter can be "set." After a few weeks, with an unchanged yet satisfactory feeding pattern, the starter will become more stable and predictable. Two starters started separately sitting next to each other can be very different. It depends on the variety and relationship of the bacteria and yeasts and how you decide to maintain the culture.
Each type of flour comes with it's own set of yeasts and bacteria varieties some more and in the case of bleached flour, less variety. Many are the same but some are specific to certain growing locations and grains. The young starter will adapt to how you want to feed it. If you want to feed it every 4 hours for the rest of it's life, continue. If not, change the way you take care of it. The Q boils down to how often do you want to use the starter?
After putting food with the starter culture, the pH will drop via bacteria, yeast will multiply (peak in activity) and bacteria will grow using the waste products of the yeast to sink the pH further to protect the culture from other invading bacteria & yeasts, moulds. I find it good to let the culture complete this cycle every so often. You can stretch it a little bit to fit into 8, 12 or 24 hour feedings. it is also possible to feed, keep warm for a period of time and then stand cooler to slow it down between feedings yet maintain the yeast power inside the culture. A little bit of experimenting might be helpful so that you don't become a slave to starter feedings.
Unless the culture is run thru a laboratory, there is no way of knowing what yeasts and bacteria make up the wild culture.
....... don't try to understand, just accept.
I think that applies here. While much of your well detailed and explained post is understood, there are some things about this "science" I just can't grasp.
MO, there are times like this I'd like to know what you've forgotten about this hobby!!!!
Thank you.
Jamie
whole grains really make the wee beasties happy as opposed to white flour. All the great minerals and vitamins the wee beasties need to be at their peak is in the portion of the flour that is sifted out to make white flour. White flour will keep the wee beasties alive but nit anywhere hear their peak of performance. It is like bakers trying to live without beer:-)
.... in my original starter. That's one of the things that I find so interesting but can't understand it.
Now one thing different is I didn't use rye in my original, which as noted above, I did do with this one in question,
Jamie
Here's a little photo diary I did yesterday of these starters.
The one on the left is the hybrid, the speed-demon and the right is the regular one. They were fed within 10 mins of each other. You can see the time on the stove clock when each was taken.
Now here, after 4 hours, you can see the hybrid is already collapsing, while the other is still percolating strongly:
Last picture I took, none since 5:00 as the stove and I were busy with supper. The regular starter has just peaked.
I still find this amazing, and quite amazing.
Jamie