My first pair of bricks: dense sourdough loaves.

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juanitopablito on 19 Dec 2016 at 21:06

Hi, all. complete newbie here. Trying to demistify the bread making process (rocket science looks easy by comparison).

So starter has been going steady for about 15 days (100% hydration, 50% rye,  50% AP) and showed signs of being strong enough for a first bake. There we go. Recipe here:

https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/

I did use AP instead of bread flour. Also, substituted around 150 grs of it with whole wheat because I ran out.

Up until proofing all looked good. During fermentation dough rose nicely, although it looked slightly darker in color, moister and less bubbly than Maurizio's, going by the pictures. Shaping was easy enough, but I may have underestimated the work needed to get it to the right place. I might have thought it looked good enough, even when it was anything but.

Further signs of failure:

Did not use proofing baskets but stainless steel bowls because that's what I had. More on this later.

Proofed for the instructed 16 hours in a -very- cold fridge. Out of the box the dough was very, very firm. It almost looked like nothing happened in the fridge: no apparent change in volume, fermentation completely stopped due to the cold? Do not know what I was expecting, really. But when handled -with some difficulty due to it sticking to the bowl- and transferred to pan, it slumped like a pokemon without the will to live. And the baked result was equally depressing. One utterly flat loaf and the other looking like me in the morning: not sure whether to rise or to become one with bed and sheets in a shapeless mass. Tasty, but dense. Good crust.

Already jotted down multiple possible causes for this and will tweak for my next bake. But if anyone can suggest -from my extensive list of no-nos up there- what I should focus on, muchas gracias in advance. Will post updates after rouround 2. :)

 

 

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Ru007 on 20 Dec 2016 at 01:20

That big hole/tunnel in your loaf makes me think your starter might not be strong enough. You also said your dough rose but it wasn't as bubbly as the pictures, that might also point to a weak starter. 

Do you have pictures of what your dough looked like at the end of your bulk fermentation. 

How to you maintain your starter?

To solve your dough sticking to the bowl problem, try lining the bowl with a tea towel lightly dusted with rice flour. I've found its pretty much impossible to get anything to stick to rice flour :)

Good luck with the next loaves :)

No post-bulk pictures, sorry. :( I should've paid more attention. Starter is fed twice a day. I must say it does not show big activity until the last half of each feeding cycle so that could be a factor. A slow learner. It's in the fridge now (stored immediately after being fed) and it has all but completely stopped showing signs of life. Maybe three small bubbles. Should I expect it to look more lively after two days? Thanks for the advice! 

Before storing in the fridge I'd allow it to bubble up by 1/4-1/3. Refrigerating it straight away will slow it down to a stop before it's had a chance to feed.

After you've allowed it to bubble up a bit and then you've refrigerated it then to build a levain take some off and feed. But give it a good feed 1:1:1 or more and allow this to bubble up and mature fully before using. If your starter has been in the fridge for a while then doing more than one build will make it stronger. Depends on how recently it's been fed.

Agreed!

Just had a look at the recipe and his starter build was 5 - 6 hours. Question is did you watch the clock or your starter?

The levain showed around the same level of activity in my starter. Which seldom doubles, btw. It rises maybe 30-50% over its original level during each feeding cycle. Should I expect more?

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Lechem on 20 Dec 2016 at 05:12

Keep and maintain your starter? And how do you build your levain?

Give me an example of both.

Starter is fed twice a day, 8-10 am and 6-8 pm. 45 g starter, 45 g water, 45 g of 50-50 rye/AP flour mix. I haven't cooked much these days so kitchen is sort of cold (55 F says today's thermometer).

Levain: 40 g of my starter, 40 g whole wheat, 40 g AP, 80 g water. 

Thank you!

It is stored in a loosely covered mason jar, left on the counter. I always use bottled water.

Maintenance seems like a good one. 

Your kitchen is a bit cold though. So while your method is good and should make a healthy starter it's gonna take longer to mature. Could be sluggish starter after all.

Feed with warm water. Try to find a warm place.

Your starter should be able to double easily. For example, I just made a loaf using a 2 stage build. The first build was 10g starter, 20g flour and 15g water (ratio 1:2:1.5). That doubled in about 4 hours. For the second build I added 90g flour and 65g water (ratio 1:2:1.4) and that doubled in just less than four hours. 

Don't stress, you can easily get your starter more active, it just needs a bit of exercise! I'd say take your starter out of the fridge and let it live on the counter for a few more days, until it can double easily after a feed. If its struggling, give it smaller feeds at first and then as it starts getting more active, increase the ratio. Don't over feed it either. 

I had to do this recently with my starter because I found that i was becoming sluggish after a few months in the fridge. I did exactly what Abe suggested and gave it a good feed, let it rise a bit before sticking it back in the fridge. 

I think Abe can give you more detailed advice, he has more experience with starters than I do :)

Good luck

proofing baskets or cloth in the baskets.  I would let the dough rise about 30% on the counter during bulk ferment (After the gluten is developed) then shpe and final proof it in the fridge for 16 hours in a  rice floured basket.  If it proofs to 85% then unmold it and bake it straight out of the fridge -  after slashing.  If it doesn't proof to 85%, let it proof in the counter the next day till it does.

Once your starter matures and gets stronger the tunnel thing will go away.

Happy SD baking 

Plus:

  • First, the dough will be darker, moister and more dense with 150 grams of whole wheat and a half-rye starter. Not to worry here!
  • Work the dough (in a stand mixer, by hand, by whatever method) until it is smooth, strong and stretchy before you bulk ferment. This can take 20 minutes or more by hand sometimes, or eight minutes in a stand mixer
  • Bulk ferment at room temperature for at least four hours (possibly more if your kitchen is that cold) before you put it in your very cold fridge. Sounds like the fridge is cold enough to stop any fermentation in either the starter or the dough. In fact, if your starter is fairly weak and your kitchen is that cold, you can probably leave the dough out for the bulk ferment overnight without it overproofing. In that case, shape it firmly and bake it after about 45 minutes to an hour
  • Yes, line the bowls with floured napkins or towels. A colander or basket or something else with holes in it will work better, but do line it and flour it (AP flour and/or brown rice flour)
  • When shaping, make sure you aren't trapping a large bubble in the middle. Also the shaping step is used to re-distribute the gas bubbles a bit more evenly after the bulk ferment. Whatever gas your yeast is producing is all trapped in one place making the rest of the bread dense. You can be a bit more firm in shaping - press or stretch the dough out gently then letter fold it (in thirds one way, then the other) and let it rest for 20 minutes, then cup your hands around it and drag it on a bare piece of counter, tightening the skin.

I just let my starter grow stronger for a few weeks and spent a bit more time mixing/kneading the autolysed dough and the levain. Shaping was easier after that. Also, a lined & floured bowl worked wonders on baking day. :)

Love the touch of rye with just the right hints of acidity. Ready to try new flours and add-ons!

great looking bread and crumb looks lovely!

Leslie

Lovely Loaf. Everything from crumb to crust. Nice blisters too. You've gotta be pleased.

What's the taste like?