Some doctoring please. Bad shaping? Under/Over proofed?

Hello.

Here are some photos of this weekend result. It's a 70% white flour sourdough with some chia.

The result is good. Tastes delicious. It's soft and chewy. Very good bread to me.

But I got some cracks in the bottom. And I'm always willing to improve...

So by this photos What would you think? Bad shaping? Under proofed (over?), Both?

Please advice.

Any thoughts are wanted.

Thanks

don't worry me in the slightest! Hubby gave me the "is she serious?" look.

The crumb however looks heavy and loaf crust rather pale, try upping the oven temp on the bake. The larger loaf looks like it could ferment longer before a final proof. Was the loaf cold when first cut?

Would like to more about the recipe, details in rises and oven temps to say more.

But I read somewhere that this might be a sign of under proofing, and I still looking to recognise the proper bake window.

The crumb was not much heavy. Perhaps a little. That's not a good shoot of it.

Actually this is the darker crust I've managed to get. :P I used the top rack in the oven - made a difference.

I'm struggling between steam and heat with my gas oven... I'll try to increase the temp, but I'm close to the limit here.

I'm interested in how can you say it could be longer fermented before proof. I just realize that I don't know when it is ready for final proof. :) How is this?

Yes ,this one was cold like 12hs when sliced. but the bread was standing with this side in the cutting board before I shoot, later when I realize the shoot was not good the bread was gone already... I'll open it's brother tomorrow, I see if I can get another shot.

I got my notes downstairs, but generally:

100 % white wheat

70% h2o

2% salt

1.5% chia seeds

2% starter

----

- Levain at 100% hd of 25% of the flour. - 12hs

- mix but salt - 1hr autolyse

- added salt

- knead like 30 mins

- added chia

- 3 hours bulk with SaF at more less 30min

- pre shape - 20 min bench rest

- shape

- proof like 1 hr room temp

- proof like 2 hr in fridge

oven +- 230c steam when putting the loaf.

baked for about 50 min

"Hubby gave me the "is she serious?" look."

I'm not sure if I understood this correctly (not a natural english speaker here), but.. She... Me?

well... I'm a man. :))

thanks MiniOven

vicente.

Gas ovens have to vent their waste gases so keeping enough steam in them whilst the crust forms is nigh-on impossible. A DO (provided you use the lid too) is an excellent way of keeping the humidity high and giving your loaves the spring you're after.

I need to buy an iron one to do that. The thing is that then I can bake only one loaf at a time right? Anyway maybe that is the answer. I'l try...

Thanks.

Sorry about the she/he thing. Anyway... A good Q... "I'm interested in how can you say it could be longer fermented before proof. I just realize that I don't know when it is ready for final proof. :) How is this?"

I look at the crumb shot bubbles and the way the gas is being trapped, the direction they seem to be moving and their distribution. Big bubbles usually mean the dough needs to be handled more to pop them, and redistribute food for the yeast in the dough. More gas bubbles grow to replace them so don't worry. Big bubbles tend to get even bigger as they heat up. You want to see a good saturation of gas everywhere in the crumb including the area between the bubbles.

When to bake still boggles my mind at times.

I've read about degassing the dough to allow it to ferment longer (prior to final proof), but then I read that those big holes bread should not be degassed. It should be handled with care to preserve the gas.

Do you degas the dough during bulk and just prior to shaping and still getting big holes?

Also how do you know, when making the bread, not looking at the done loaf, that it's time for shaping and proofing?

No problem about he/she. Actually it is my fault, just initials as a "name" and a loaf as profile picture... No hint at all...

Certain types of bread are known for them but that doesn't mean all breads should have big holes. And yes one can degas during the bulk rise, and before shaping and still get big holes if desired. You want to see a good saturation of gas everywhere in the crumb including the area between the bubbles. Then you just let the bubbles get bigger but not so big that they fall as the dough strength is lost with time. This applies also to the dough. A good way to see what the bubbles are doing is to cut open the raw dough with a quick sharp knife and look at the bubbles forming in it. A see-thru container is another way to see bubbles forming in the dough. Watch the bubbles as the dough rises and you will learn a lot. Be sure to look at the dough between the bubbles where the gasses are being produced. Volume is an interesting gauge but if the dough is full of very large bubbles with a lot of dense dough around them, the dough is too early for shaping. Degassing makes it easier for the dough to trap more gas as the yeast population increases gas production. Gentle handling with sourdough is stressed because so many bread recipes, those with commercial yeast in them, have a tradition of a brutal degassing, punching etc.. (I love to do that by the way.) Commercial yeast kicks out a lot of gas in a short period of time making for a very short working window if the yeast is not reduced (less than 1% of the flour weight) for a longer rise. Several bulk rises are not uncommon for such active yeast. Anyway... back to sourdough with its long rise which has the added factor of bacteria populations. Big big bubbles are not desired, can interfere in final proofing and baking and big obvious ones should be popped if they don't pop during shaping. I've even popped a few on the way to the oven. :) Important is to know what crumb you are after and to work toward it.

Hi Mini, I've been away for a while.

I liked the over rated thought. :)

So you just cut trough the dough? Then what? Join it back? I must do this. Next time I'll try both, this and the see trough container. Good hints. Thanks.

By what you can see in the pictures, Do you think there is enough tension in my shapes?

What about "ears" are they over rated also? They are a mystery to me. I got some very beautiful ones, and others loafs with same dough got none...

Thanks Mini.

slap the cut edges back together and press one side into the other.

Ears? yep, over rated too. That little crusty part can cut the roof of your mouth on the first day. Nasty on knuckles too. But it sometimes looks very nice. Gotta still have tension in the surface to score and get them. Don't want to overproof or let the dough relax too much while proofing.

Try not cutting down the middle but off to one side and hold the blade flat like the table. As the dough springs in the oven, it opens like a roll top desk. Generally cut deep for dryer doughs, shallow for wetter ones. Ears are formed when the elastic like stretched part of the dough is cut, causing the dough to pull back into a former shape. So cutting the dough across or diagonal to the stretch, will give greater ears. So goes the physics. Easier said than done but pay attention to the way the dough is shaped to get the best reaction from scoring.

It helps to first tighten the dough with folds, let it rest to relax, then for oval or long loaves, pat it out to roll up. If you can roll up the inside while the table holds the outside dough skin, a fair amount of tension can be created inside the dough. Pinch the seam shut and tuck under or roll smooth any corners or ends. Then wait for the dough to rise more.