Hi!
I'm not one but have a question that, I think at this point, only a professional baker could help with so I'm reaching out on this forum.
There is some confusion about what the Ardent Mills Dark Rye flour actually is and I'd be really glad to know the answer. Although most signs seem to point to it being whole rye flour that had the lighter grades sifted out leaving a higher proportion of bran and germ in it (something that, according to Stanley Ginsberg in "The Rye Baker", would be like an Austrian type R 2500 rye flour), there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer even after doing a lot of searching. So, I thought I'd go to the source and reached out to Ardent Mills asking them for information about what exactly this flour is and what the recommended uses for it are only to receive some boiler plate type reply about them "not selling directly to consumers". Bummer. This is really frustrating and not knowing is nagging at me.
So if you are a pro baker or if you know one, could you help this frustrated home baker with getting an answer as to what this flour is and what the recommended uses are? Hopefully you'd get a better reply than I did.
Thanks!
The Baker's Authority sheet gives the ash content as 1.7%, which is pretty high, protein 9%. The Dark Rye I've used from Central Milling is at 1.6%, protein 10.9%. This amounts to a finely milled flour with the most bran and germ.
https://www.bakersauthority.com/products/ardent-mills-dark-rye-flour?srsltid=AfmBOopnOklL-XP18s0C-gpuXAi9zGr8aPt8hAKIi__kJn1c3TLBUfzh#tab1
Central Milling
https://centralmilling.com/product/organic-whole-dark-rye-flour/
Dave
At least that's what I've gathered from some posts after doing more searching. The confusion around this is why I inquired with Ardent Mills.
It's unfortunate that Ardent Mills was unwilling to share more info with a home baker; you're a customer, too. You could contact Bakers Authority to ask whether they have a rye flour that compares with the R2500. The Ardent Mills flour ash content seems equivalent to German type 1800. The only R2500 equivalent dark rye flour that I'm aware of is Bay State Milling's, formerly sold by Ginsberg's NYBakers website. I had some of this flour and it was definitely heavy with bran.
The problem in the US is that there is no standard for ash content in rye flour so most millers don't test and report the value. Janie's Mill whole rye flour was on the high side at ≈2.0%, owing to a rye variety that was especially high in ash. Breadtopia didn't have an ash% to report.
Maybe they'll have some info.
Too bad Ginsberg closed the store. It had great variety of flours.
Hi!
Ardent Mills whole rye flour is sold as pumpernickel or rye meal.
Their dark rye flour is what's left after they mill white and medium rye flours from whole rye kernels. It is very high in protein (from rye bran and outer grain layers), fat (from rye germ), and fiber (also from rye bran) compared to whole rye. You can see it if you look at it's nutritional label per 100g of flour. It is available at Bakers Authority, for example.
This is how it looks when 50g of dark rye is mixed with 40g of water (far right). White rye is to the far left, followed by two medium ryes from different millers, and a whole rye flour dough ball.
You can use it in any recipe that requires whole rye flour. It makes good 100% rye bread as well.
Look at those cute rye balls! As usual, your posts are insightful. All signs certainly point to that and I'm also leaning in that direction.
I originally got some "Dark Rye Flour" from Baker's Authority assuming it was "dark rye" as per Ginsberg in his "The Rye Baker" book where he equates it with Austrian R 2500 flour. That was before I even knew about the lack of rye flour standards in the US or reading (or even being interested in) the spec sheet information. But after becoming aware of those things confusion set in. Reading a bunch of posts about that flour didn't help as there was no definitive answer. That's why I decided to contact the mill. With them brushing me off. That's why I was hoping a pro baker would be able to get the information on what it is and recommended uses for it from them as that would help with my OCD. I can't say it's keeping me from sleeping but it's nagging at me. I don't have a definitive answer. So until then, even though I'm unsure of its true nature, I will treat is as if it were R 2500.
Would it be a 1:1 substitute for whole rye flour? Would any adjustments need to be made? In Ginsberg's book it's only used as a portion of the flour bill. Are you saying bread could be made with only this flour? Would you have a recipe? I'd certainly be willing to try anything rye related.
I had some of the Bay State Milling dark rye flour from NYBakers and it was nothing like whole rye flour I have purchased from Breadtopia or Janie's Mill. It was much more thirsty than the whole rye flours from the other mills. I would say that it needed 20–40% more water than whole rye flour. I truly believe that the BSM dark rye was similar to Austrian R2500 rye flour and not whole rye. I have not used the Ardent Mills or BA dark rye, so I can't compare, but it may be similar to other whole rye flours. Note that Bob's Red Mill also labels its rye flour as "dark rye" but I doubt that it is R2500 flour.
Here is a description of the R2500 flour from Lutz Geißler's Plötzblog:
I only used the BSM dark rye flour in smaller quantities (<20% of total flour) in recipes, except for one (https://brotpoet.de/2018/11/14/schwarzroggen-kruste/) on Brotpoet.de that used 35% and another one from Foodcoachat (https://foodcoachat.wordpress.com/2021/03/09/schwarzroggenbrot-mit-buttermilch/). Unfortunately, the Brotpoet blog is now private but you may be able to find it on the Wayback Machine. I'm not sure why Ginsberg never used whole rye flour in The Rye Baker; instead he uses mixtures of dark rye and light rye flours.
but the forum got wonky on me. Please see my post below.
I ever saw. It's... darker. I'm now almost certain it's similar to R 2500 but I lack that confirmation, clarity for my peace of mind. Bob's Red Mill dark rye, though, is definitely whole grain.
Thanks for the links. I'll make those breads someday.
Huh... I never noticed that about "The Rye Baker". After I read what you wrote, I thought to myself: that's certainly wrong, there are plenty of recipes using whole grain rye flour in that book. Well, you were right. I just went through the whole book and there is not a single recipe listing whole grain rye flour. However, there are five recipes using "fine rye meal" which is also whole grain but is a coarser grind and is the closest to whole grain rye flour in the book. Ginsberg used to sell it and he sourced it from Bay State Mills. I really liked that flour (meal?) and I miss it. I don't remember if he sold whole rye flour but maybe it was somehow tied into his book?