Hello everyone, I am new to the site and new to bread making.
I have made a few yeasted loaves, bagels and things but I am very interested in Sourdough.
I have made around 9-10 loaves of sourdough but unfortunately they have got worse each time (many lessons from it though)
I troubleshooted using Youtube and blogs and assumed I was leaving it to bulk ferment for too long but after making a few more I noticed I would start with a good dough around 70% hydration, then during my stretch and folds the dough would start losing structure.
During stretch and folds I watched the dough become flatter and stickier, I thought maybe I wasn't gentle enough during stretch and folds but I believe it's my starter (still not completely sure but trying to figure out the issue).
A while ago my starter stopped rising and falling and I just couldn't get it to become active enough again. I thought maybe because we were going into Winter and it's very cold in the UK that's why.
Anyway I made new one but have seen online some contradicting info. Some people say to start with a whole flour (WW, rye, spelt etc) and continue with the whole flour but others say start with the whole flour then just use bread flour because of its protein rich content. I am on Day 4 of developing my starter and I started with rye flour, on day 3 I used for the flour part of the feed 50g bread flour and 10g rye.
Should I continue using just bread flour or mainly rye, or a mix?
Thank you
I feed mine a combination of bread, whole wheat, and whole rye flours. There's nothing scientific about it, particularly as regards proportions or measurements. My rationale is that the whole grain flours provide nutrients that are absent in the bread flour, as well as additional yeasts (assuming that they survive the micro-environment of the starter).
My starter seems happy with this approach but starters will accept just about anything that they are fed, so don't take what I'm doing as the One True Way for sourdough maintenance. Yours will be happy with any of the flours you've mentioned, singly or in combination.
Paul
This makes a lot of sense, apparently the nutrients are in the husk of the grain which is why it is important to use whole flours not just bread flour, thank you for your reply! :)
Your problem with dough structure could be that the flour needs a lower hydration. I had a flour that completely fell apart after a few hours at 65% hydration but made good loaves at 61%. But if the same flour (and batch of flour, perhaps) previously made good bread but now it does not, something else may have changed. One possibility is a change in the water character. That could also affect the starter.
Some TFLers have had good results when they changed to a bottled water, often one with added minerals.
About using mixtures of flours to create a new starter, don't get hung up with details. Many many people including me have created new starters using white flour. What has to happen is that the acidity has to increase (the pH has to fall) over time. The increase suppresses organisms you don't want and, apparently, inactive yeast spores need a low enough pH before they will wake up. Lactic acid bacteria in the starter-to-be cause the decrease in pH. With the right acidic environment, a new starter can be up and working in as little as two days (I once did that using liquid from home-made salt-fermented pickles). That's unusual, but an somewhat acidic environment will speed things up and make the process more reliable.
The best thing you can do to promote the development of a new starter is to start off using canned pineapple juice, or something equally acidic (not vinegar, though, I have read) like some ciders, instead of water.
The next best thing you can do with a new incipient starter is to leave it alone. Just stir it once or twice a day. If you feed it before the LAB (lactic acid bacterial) and/or yeast get to multiplying, you will only dilute their concentration instead of helping them to increase. After some days you should be seeing some kind of activity, and then you can give it a feeding to make up for flour that has been metabolized. The more activity, the more feeding, but remember, most of the visible activity you see will be from undesired bacteria until nearly the end. When the starter becomes acidic enough, it generally will spring to life in a short time and be clearly much more active. That will be the yeast coming to life.
TomP
Thank you for this message, super helpful!
I will try at a lower hydration and see how it turns out using the same flours, I use bottled water anyway as I do not have a water filter.
I am on day 6 of developing my starter and not much activity but, I will be patient as I believe I have been messing with it too much like you mentioned and perhaps overfeeding, I will give it a couple of stirs and see how it unfolds.
Thanks again :)
If you started 6 days ago - and follow the usual instructions - it's not yet a starter. You are a few weeks - more like months - from a starter. Enjoy!
I will remain patient and see how it comes along
Also from London. Our local tap water is hard water which is very good for starters. I use mine boiled and cooled which works a treat. Have a read through this.
I assumed we couldn’t use our water at all, that’s handy! Thank you :)
And at the same time start a new one with the instructions in the link I have given.
Trick is to wait until the initial mix has bubbled up. Might take a day or two. Nothing to do until that happens. You may give it a stir every now and again to help it along.
Then give it a 1:1:1 feed. After which it will probably quieten down or even appear to stop. This is the critical stage. If you wait until it begins to show more signs of fermentation before feeding again (other than stirring it) then it'll go much quicker. If you carry on feeding it come what may (like most recipes have you do) it'll slow right down.
So during this quiet stage just keep warm and stir. The starter will get very liquidy and 'break down'. Then it'll begin to froth after another 24-48 hours. And only then do you begin feeding once more.
Use tap water boiled and cooled and if you can try and find some stoneground wholegrain spelt flour. Not totally necessary but it works well so why not?
Almost everyone who has starter issues, if it's not because of the ingredients, it's because of feeding to a schedule rather than reactively. In other words you have to read the starter to know when to feed. Hopefully the link should help.