So I had/have a Hobart N50, I say have had because I have moved to the US and unfortunately I can't bring it for the voltage issue (and it's super heavy). I bought my Hobart for 400 chef ($-chf was about 1-1)and if you check my other post cleaned it up, broke, had it recoiled and not long after moved to Texas.
I am wanting to get back into doing some bread and in future some pizza and I was looking for price range where in the US for a N50, ohh boy they are expensive. Unless you get really lucky you are going to spend $800+ on one. Something at the moment I can't afford.
I know Hobart became KitchenAid so I started looking at olde KitchenAid mixers and I see that the k5-a and k5ss are very similar to the N50. I tried to get more info on both but didn't find too much. What I did is that people appreciate the K5-A is a bit more appreciated than the K5ss. Now my question is how big of a difference is there between the N50 and the k5-a? If I find a steal deal or I find a grand on the floor I will go for the N50, but reality is probably this won't happen. Will I be disappointed going to a k5-a from an N50? What are it's pros and cons?
Appreciate any and everyone's imput
I've never owned or used a Hobart but have used a KitchenAid (KA). My understanding is that KAs are designed for home use and Hobarts for commercial use. That is, the KAs are meant to be used occasionally and the Hobarts to be used every day, throughout the day. Hope that makes sense.
Makes total sense, I'm not going to be using it every day or make big batches. I dislike modern stuff because generally it's made to break and be replaced. I can't stand the though of it, I love older things because they were made to last, and if they broke usually you would always be able to fix them. I'm a chef and have have seen many new KitchenAid that after mild use they die, yes it's the owners fault for being cheap and buying a house appliance for a restaurant but this shows that if you want just a little more from your KitchenAid is he will give up. As I want to make break and pizza dough which will be around 1kg flour and have an hydration between 60-75% depending on what I'm making I'd like to have a machine that could do that. The N50 took it like a champ, didn't seem to struggle but it would get warm and it was at it limits with batch size. I'm still not sure if the n50 or K5-A is the right one, I might go for a 10quart mixer from Hobart but those are also 10x the price of a K5-A, so I'm trying to see I I can get away with the K5-A if that makes sense
The Hobart N50 (or Model G) are different beasts. There is a precision in their movement, mass of the machine, and even their transmission. This means the beater is so much more controlled and consistent...SO, it is designed to run closer to the bowl wall and is less affected what is in the bowl. (TLDR: a whole discussion on transmission and torque).
Here is a video from someone who uses a Kitchanaid (and other domestic mixers) trying an N50. Your issue is you are going in the other direction. She was just freaked out by the power and speed so didn't get to the quality of the mixing or what is actually happening in the bowl. Many of the things your N50 could achieve and you used to rely on that made particular recipes sing you just won't be able to do on a domestic machine.
YES they will both mix but you have to work very differently as the machines have different constraints.
P.S. You probably already know N50 bowls and beaters are just slightly deeper to the Kitchenaid 5qt...just in case you had it in the back of your head you could upgrade later and keep using any kitchenaid bowls/beaters
Thank you for the input, I know it's a step down, and probably will not do it, I was/am trying to convince my self that I can get away with the KA but I think in all reality I need the n50 or maybe something a bit bigger (10qt) by Hobart which I was wondering what model would you recommend as there are a couple of 10qt Hobart mixers.
Thanks again for the info
I am surprised more home bakers don't go 10qt. So much versatility and the additional power is often a huge plus. Also being #10 attachment hub means you get to use all the Kitchenaid attachments new and vintage.
If you are in the USA then there are more Hobart 10qt options than for the rest of us.
C100. Probably the best value is in the C100. Particularly if you get one sold with a number of attachments (such as the pelican head). I suspect this may be the easiest version to live with for most. Also the new 10qt stainless bowls fit without modification (you need to cut them to fit in between the legs of the C210 and C10)
C210 & C10. I have a soft spot for their simplicity, the way they deliver torque, and the cast iron making them beautify rigid. On the down side, their asking price is getting very high and they are quite rare making spares almost not existent...meaning you enter a world of custom which is expensive. I don't know if I would be happy with the power of them vs the C100. Weirdly the best of these were actually the Frankenstein machines sold overseas that were modified for the 230/240v countries and made way more powerful and heavier.
I have a K4A that was purchased in ~1972 or 1973 so it is about 50 yrs old. It was built by Hobart and still has the original analog speed control. It has been greased once requiring no new parts at that point but has had the bowl lock replaced once, and new rubber feet. It remains in use for small batches of cookies or mashed potatoes or to make whipped cream. It was engineered to last. I once owned a K600 which was made by Kitchen Aid and was (in my opinion) a piece of trash. It made so much noise that I would have to put on my gun range ear protectors to make it tolerable. I moved to an Assistent N28 (now Ankarsrum but also originally Electrolux) which I love even though it required a lot of learning to convert (or recreate) formulas that I had been making quite successfully in the smaller K4A and K600. After 10 yrs (and I still have the N28) I moved up to a small spiral mixer (Famag IM-5S) which again required a lot of reworking of formulas and processes but is an incredibly tough and powerful machine that is commercial quality but sized for batches up to about 7 to 10 lbs of dough and could probably go above that if I needed more. A chef friend has had an N50 for 20 years and uses it every day for multiple tasks and it just keeps on ticking and I would put the IM-5 in the same category from a quality of construction perspective, though the IM-5 will be a LOT easier to repair with a combination of a belt drive for the bowl and simple single stage reduction gear for the spiral drive, all driven by a singe variable speed computer controlled motor instead of a mechanical transmission.
At the moment an N50 is priced at about $4400 new and $2500 used and a new IM-5 is about $1600. Given what I know about both, I would buy an IM-5S. I think the next step down in size (not quality) is the Ankarsrum at ~$750. Below that the smaller KA mixers such as the 4.5 qt Artisan style seem to be competent for their scale but do suffer from heating issues when used for extended periods at low speeds. With low hydration doughs, because the motor is inefficient at low speed it dumps a lot of power into the mechanics of the mixer, and the cooling fan slows down with the motor shaft speed and is not as effective as it needs to be when the motor is dissipating so much heat. I think KA now has a line of DC-powered mixers that while still using a planetary drive is much more efficient and should not suffer from the overheating issue that I have seen with the line-powered AC drives even with electronic speed controls.
The analogue speed control versions are nice.
However these motor speed control are very different the geared transmission models. One of the particularities of the C210- C10 models is that the attachment hub is a direct drive from the main shaft (both a limit and super awesome). Also going back to a tilt head would be a huge change for someone from the N50 environment.
Yes 2nd hand N50 are in the $2500 range but there are a number in the $800 mark[to remove confusion - I should rephrase that as "a good selection below $800"]. It is just the issue that these are still in the commercial market and usually attract commercial rates. P.S. the new list price of these locally are now approaching $11K. OUCH
Watch these review by American Test Kitchens. For a smaller mixer, the KA 4-1/2 quart stands out.
For a larger KA they pick the 7 quart Pro-line.
https://youtu.be/F5mBOGte5Zo
https://youtu.be/8JlaTO_2zh8
Will watch them now, thank you
As someone who owns a Kitchenaid Artisan, don't get one. They can't handle dough very well. It works well enough for cakes and cookies and icings, but it struggles with a 1lb loaf, as in the head gets hot. The attachments that come with the non-professional model are coated but the paint chips like crazy. I've replaced my beater twice and now I have the stainless steel one. They used to be good, but now the good stuff is under the "professional" label. Also, their external attachments (ie: pasta maker) all have reviews saying that they break after a few uses.
If you can't bring your old mixer because of the plug, you may be able to get an adapter plug. If it's because of voltage issues, most microwaves have to be plugged into their own circuit and it may be the same voltage, so you could get away with just unplugging the microwave and plugging in your own mixer. also, electricians can adjust that for you. I think ovens and microwaves operate on their own 120v circuit? At least that's how it is in my own home. It's worth looking into.
If $800 is too heavy a lift, then I'd suggest you buy a used Ankarsrum (aka. Electrolux Assistent, Magic Mill assistent, et.al) off e-bay. If you shop you can probably buy one delivered for aroung $300.
One of the nice things about the Ankarsrum is it simplicity and durability. Not too much risk buying used. I've bought several in the last 5 or 6 years, and the most I paid was $350. All have worked fine. The N24, DLX 2000, are 450w machines, while the N25 and newer are 600w. The power rating doesn't seem to make much different though so that's not a big concern for me. Ideally the 600w machines would be preferred, but not to the dismissal or a 450w. I don't think I'd go for a DLX 9000 though. They a getting pretty old (more than 25 years I think).
The Ankarsrum gives you vercitily you won't get with a spiral mixer, yet will handle bread dough pretty well, and can be had for a reasonable price. Just make sure roller, scraper, whisks, whisk bowl, bowl cover and spatula are there. You can get replacements, but why not get all the pieces to begin with. Just my thoughts. Jim
Thanks for the advice, I actually prefer a mixer as I can use it for whip cream, frostings etc and most important meat grinder.
I was just able to close a bid on s n50 with bowl, dough hook, whisk and beater for 401$ +88 shipping. It look in great shape, when it gets here I will post more about it.
Again thanks for your input :)
She has arrived:)
Unfortunately she hums instead of turning :( quickly tried all gears and nothing. Tried turning by hand and it will not turn, so hopefully will be something stupid/cheap/easy to fix. Wrote the seller as he sold it as working, hopefully can get a refund or partial refund.
The seller has asked UPS for a refund, let's see what's going to happen
Meanwhile today I stripped her down looking to see if I can find anything wrong with it and while at it change grease. I was confident it's something stupid because the coils aren't burnt, once opened up the grease wasnt even that horrible, a bit black and orange but no hard stuff. Gears and everything we're in great condition, so I greased her up (mobil1) and closed her up, I spin the thing by hand and it turned, I claimed victory, so I out the back piece on plugged it in and nothing, just a hum, turned it off right away and didn't try anymore. I tried turning the thing by hand and it would turn anymore. At this moment I was like what the hell!!! So I took off the back piece and then proceeded to try spinning it with my hand and it spun. I had seen that the back piece where had 2 fractures up top and the lid had a dent in it (the pictures on the eBay add didn't have the send, seller says the dent wasn't there prior, and said he just dropped it off at UPS and had the package it, it was packaged decently but nothing firm, just in the box with bubble wrap). So I decided to put the back part partially on and spin and it would go, as soon as I would push it completely up against it machine it wouldn't turn anymore and I noticed that it was pushing up the shaft by that 1-2mm.
I curious to see how it turns out with UPS. I'm going to keep it as it was a good deal, I will try to find one of the back pieces online
So what ended up happening? Did you get up partial refund from UPS so you can buy yourself the new part for the rear?
I contacted the guy, he gave me a refund for 1/2 of what I payed and I guess he got a refund from UPS. I gave it some new grease, bought the meat grinder attachment with the extra cash and I've almost used it daily ever since.