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For those who wish to limit or disengage from the flood of email notifications associated with long threads such as these CBs produce, Dan had written up how to do so
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/66354/tip-how-stop-email-notification-any-topic
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TFL Community Bakes are the result of CB founder Dan. His own creation and nurturing, to interest and help others, and in turn be helped, as we all strive to improve our baking skills and widen our baking horizons. Kudos to him for this lasting gift for us all.
For this CB I’d like to continue to focus on a grain rather than a specific bread style, as was the original focus in the previous Deli-Rye CB. I love semolina based breads, having grown up a stone’s throw from a few Italian bakeries, and consider the sesame semolina bread to be a foundational food on my personal food pyramid!
Clarification. I refer to semolina in a generic sense. I really am referring to durum, the finely machined version known in Italian as semola rimacinata which carries a protein of ~12%. Semolina is too coarse and hard a grain for typical bread baking. But there are no holds barred here in our CBs, and if you wish to bake with it as I have, feel free to experiment with the least coarse of the grinds. I reference two short descriptions here:
This durum wheat flour is a double ground (rimacinata) flour with very soft and fine texture. Its signature yellowish tint and resistant elastic gluten make it ideal for all extruded pastas and breads, or wherever the characteristics of semolina are desired.
Semolina is coarsely ground durum wheat (grano duro, triticum durum - a varitey of wheat) and its often used to make pasta. When it's called semola rimacinata in Italian, it refers to semolina which has been re-milled to make it finer and more suitable for bread baking.
When I refer to “bread flour” in the below descriptions, I am employing Mr. Hamelman’s usage. He refers to bread flour as what we generally call an AP flour. His point of reference is the King Arthur AP Flour which has a protein level of 11.7%.
Whether you have access to semolina or not, perhaps you can join with bakes of what I consider to be somewhat related grains. I have never baked with the last four on the list below, and therefore cannot offer recommendations as to how they may work out. Experienced ancient grain bakers on TFL should have a better understanding to offer during this CB. You will be able to bake these breads with the first three grains listed, and may be able to do so with the final four grains. Included in the list, but not exclusive, are:
- Semola rimacinata: Extra finely milled Durum wheat
- Durum Atta: Indian durum similar to semola rimacinata. Atta may refer to more than one type of wheat, look for the ingredient that says Durum. May also contain some whole grain.
- Tritordeum: Hybrid grain of barley and durum developed these past few decades in Spain and available in some European markets.
- Einkorn: Ancient “less thirsty” grain with a “nutty flavor”. https://www.einkorn.com/tips-for-baking-with-einkorn-flour/?v=7516fd43adaa
- Emmer: Ancient “thirsty” grain with high protein but low gluten and a “nutty flavor”. https://bluebirdgrainfarms.com/frequently-asked-questions/baking-with-our-flours/
- Khorasan (Kamut): Ancient grain from Afghanistan& Iran sharing similar characteristics to Durum with a “nutty flavor”.
- Spelt: A higher protein than ordinary wheat flours, similar to Durum, another with a “nutty flavor”. https://www.spiceography.com/semolina-flour-substitute/
I am offering five differing semolina based breads, all with some unique characteristic that makes each one different from its brethren. However only three will appear in this CB posting. These three will also appear in the Companion Blog along with two additional suggestions. Taken as a whole, the five carry some combination of these characteristics:
- Semolina percentages from 40% to 100%
- Preferment hydration percentages from 50% to 125%
- Overall hydration percentages from 65% to 78%
For each style of bread, I provide "in house” versions, highlighting the baking prowess of our own folk. The reference links will take you to the original author’s TFL write up, and to my Companion Blog Post with each formula. Each formula presented is my interpretation of the bread.
One more thing: Don’t let the shapes and sizes dictate how you wish to proceed. Feel free to experiment with boules, batards (long and normal), baguettes, filones, ficelles, dinner rolls...
Semolina "Pain au Levain". This Jeffrey Hamelman version has a 60/40 mix of semolina/bread flour, employs a 125% hydration bread flour levain, and carries an overall hydration of 67%.
1) One of TFL’s resident Kiwis, leslieruf offers her version.
2) My own take for one of my go-to breads, on this marvelous winning delight.
Tom Cat Semolina Filone. Maggie Glezer’s version of this on again/off again occasional TFL favorite will challenge you due to its very high hydration. I found this bread difficult to wrangle, but it makes some of the finest toast I’ve ever had. 55.5/45.5 semolina/bread flour, 130% hydration Poolish, 89% overall hydration.
NOTE: Due to a misunderstanding of American English/Transcription error, the original Tom Cat formula that previously was posted below carried an absurdly high overall 89% hydration. Thanks to an email conversation with Abe, it was determined that the Poolish was incorrectly stated. The corrected version is now in its place, with an Poolish hydration of 90% and an overall hydration of 75%. The 45/55 % or AP/Semolina still remains.
1) semolina_man baked a delightful version of this bread.
2) As does dmsnyder, David's interpretation.
Pane di Altamura/Matera. These two neighboring towns, in the heel region of the Italian peninsula, produce rather uniquely shaped (or mis-shapen) breads.
Altamura is 100% semolina including a 66% hydration biga, with a relatively low overall hydration of 65%.
Matera is also 100% semolina including a 50% hydration levain / lievito madre with a 66% overall hydration.
EDIT. Build 3 above should read 150g Sem., 75g Water.
1) Our own breadforfun’s Brad did a field trip to Altamura several years ago, and reports on his experience and bake.
The fine print...And as our Community Bake founder Dan said:
As always, the CB occupies a corner of TFL. Created as a collaborative effort, both to enhance one’s skills as well as to help others with their skills. By no means are the formulae provided meant to be the be-all-and-end-all of the CB. Rather, they are a framework of distinct ways to achieve a bread that meets the general criteria. I encourage you to experiment and explore, to modify and to introduce to our CB participants your own experiences and versions. And most of all, to learn and help all of us to better ourselves as bakers. I also encourage you to find something you like, change one or many things about it and to make it your own!
All bakers of every skill level are invited to participate. Novice bakers are especially welcomed and plenty of assistance will be available for the asking. The Community Bakes are non-competitive events that are designed around the idea of sharing kitchens with like minded bakers around the world, "cyber style". To participate, simply photograph and document your bakes. You are free to use any formula and process you wish. Commercial Yeast, sourdough, or a combination of both are completely acceptable. Once the participants get active, many bakers will post their formulas and methods. There will be many variations to choose from.
Here is a list of our past CBs.
They remain active and are monitored by numerous users that are ready, willing, and able to help if assistance is needed. A quick browse of past CBs will provide an accurate picture of what these events are all about.******************************************************************************************
Since many of the CBs grow quite large, it can become difficult to follow the progress of each individual baker. Things get very spread out. In an attempt to alleviate congestion and consolidate individual baker’s bread post, the following is suggested.
Links to baker’s BLOGs that have posted a compiled list of bakes for this CB *For the original postings please click the links above. My posting of the formula write-ups, click here.
Yes, thank you for the prompt. I have just re-read the passage about semolina Vs durum in the book. My bake #1, I milled the coarse grain semolina into fine durum flour. The Semola Rimacinata I purchased for this bake #2 was as described "lovely golden softness", so I guess I had the right flour. I'll have to introduce the water in stages next time.
I like the clear and concise layout of the BBGA format and also the style-sheet; I went with both :)
Hi, Gavin!
+1
The layout and way to account for everything is top-notch. I'm going to do your recipe this weekend.
Are you generally following any of the three recipes introduced by Alan? I guess the one with the biga, right? :)
Murph
Hi Murph,
If I was repeating one of these it would be my bake #1, Semolina "Pain au Levain". It's called Semolina Bread in Hamelman's book. The formula is in my submission early in this CB.
Best of luck,
Gavin
Did you. mix using Raubard method? 90% durum would be a challenge for sure, but at the end you have a great everyday crumb! love the crust colour too.
Leslie
Thank you, Leslie. Yes, it was a challenge to mix and I did the Raubard method of sorts with a bowl scraper. The mix was too slack to grab hold, more like a slurry. I'm glad it turned to bread eventually.
Cheers,
Gavin.
Following, for sure!
For me, that's my kind of bread! I'm old-school that way.
In my first breads, I'm looking for a working man's bread. I want a bread that I can make ham and cheese sandwiches and sop up spaghetti sauce with. With some panache. Something to make my work mates jealous of. And then to make some for them.
And I want to get the rhythm down so I can crank a few loaves out during the week. ;)
I will do that. I will study this recipe and try it this weekend.
Love it. To die for!
Murph
Thank you, Murph. It did come out better than expected. This bread is screaming out for a good quality extra virgin olive oil to dip the bread into. In fact, I'm doing now! 5 pm here where I live.
Cheers,
Gavin
Northeast USA here at 1:20 a.m. on Tuesday. Near Boston.
TELL me that oil is herb-infused! Maybe mixed with a touch of sage, thyme, oregano, and red pepper! Jealous!
I hate you! :)
My second dough is baking right now.
Hey, Alan (alfanso) asked a good question early on in the bake. You, me, and everyone strays from the given recipes.
How far afield are we allowed to go?
Murph
There are no rules within reason. There are some general guidelines at the CB intro.
Thanks for guidance, Gavin!
Murph
It's very cool looking, and I bet it’s a treat to eat. Enjoy!
Thanks, AG. It took on a lot of colour early in the bake. It is lovely to eat. Cheers.
Describing the mix as a batter like slurry is quite accurate Gavin. When I mixed my 100% semola dough also at 80% (holding back 3%) I thought that there was no way it was going to turn out and that it was going to be a flop. But the overnight saltolyse did the trick and the dough the next morning was already developing nicely. I later read somewhere that the semola doesn’t take well to a long autolyse, so I was confused as to why it seemed to help my dough develop nicely.
Your bake turned out wonderfully, The crumb is sandwich loaf perfect and the crust is lovely and dark. Very nice.
Benny
Thanks Benny. This dough mix is a mystery.
"But the overnight saltolyse did the trick". (saltolyse >new word< salt + autolyse)
This is why I dissagree with the statements about using no or short autolyse with these flours, flours that need time to hydrate, to soak up water and swell. These flours are always being compared to typical all purpose flours in tests done with what I believe to be biased from the start, tests forcing typical AP methods onto them (after all, time is money.). Tests that also include short bulk times. Where are the limititations? Push them to see what happens.
If folding the dough over while shaping (the accidental "save" mentioned several posts back) results in a better loaf. Something should be said for a longer bulk ferment. Seems to me the traditional folding over of the traditional duram flour loaves before baking might have come about in a similar fashion. Waiting for a very ripe ferment after the initial shaping before folding and baking. Any comments?
Give more time, let the duram flour hydrate, let gluten develop without mixing, then go about making the dough. I have success with these flours when I soak them first. How long? Always a good question. Separate the flour types? Maybe a good test. Any takers?
Cool temperature soak with salt. Salt may tighten the protein but I'll bet salt also allows the water to "soften" and penetrate the starch particles while controling enzymes to some degree.
I think you are right. A couple of people here have done an autolyse at 80% hydration with much a better result than my batter like slurry. Benito did an overnight "saltalyse" and meb21 a two hour autolyse; both were able to develop a dough one could handle.
makes a flour absorb more water, the flour is just slow at absorbing water. I have a lot of trouble with normal Ap wheat flour and 80% hydration. Durum flour will also vary a little bit (depending on milling and storage) but a hydration between 60 to 70% makes sense, adding 40% bread flour to the dough mix should bring it closer to 70% just for the bread flour. The more durum flour in the total flour, the closer to 60%, the more whole flour, the scale moves up. A 66% hydration is very reasonable for 100% durum loaf.
Thank you. My starting point for a repeat of the 90% durum flour at 80% will be 66% hydration and then adjust during the mixing. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Cheers,
Gavin
"I dont think that a higher hydration makes a flour absorb more water, the [durum] flour is just slow at absorbing water."
Bingo.
Of Altamura bread. It's supposed to be low hydration. It's all in the timing! And because the flavour of durum is subtle I think it tastes better with a more dense crumb. The lower hydration and dark bake crust keeps it fresh for longer too. I think nowadays there's too much emphasis on going as high hydration as possible. For what reason I do not know. Some breads just work better with lower hydration and that's what we're supposed to be aiming for!
Yes I made up the term saltolyse when I started doing them quite a lot as a time saving procedure. I make the levain and mix the flour salt and water before bed. Then by morning levain is mature and ready to add to dough. Yes the salt is added to prevent the enzymes from doing too much with such a long autolyse.
Given this flour’s texture and relative coarseness compared with other flours, it seems logical that it would need more time to absorb the water so the saltolyse does seem to work well for it, or an autolyse without the salt for a shorter time. This flour also seems to be able to absorb a lot of flour. I’m guessing here, but I wonder if the low hydration doughs used by the Italians are because they like to do these breads in many interesting shapes that don’t get much final proof? If you treat this like other doughs and plan to use a banneton for final proof, I think you can push the hydration if you want.
By the morning without manipulation, this dough developed a fair amount of gluten during the long saltolyse. After adding levain and bassinage water to bring hydration to 80%, then Rubaud and FF x 250, it was a very smooth elastic strong dough.
My experience with Kamut, a harder wheat like durum, backs up what Mini says above.
Durum is "triticum durum" not our normal "triticum aestivum". "durum" is Latin for "hard."
Even though the durum flour (aka semola rimacinata) is ground as finely as AP or bread flour, it's still harder than AP/bread flour. The flour particles may be just as small, but they are still harder than triticum aestivum.
Therefore they need more time to hydrate, and hydration is needed before the gluten network can be properly formed. So, you have to hold off slap-and-folding, kneading or stretch-and-folding a bit longer than with triticum aestivum.
It also means that, early on, the dough is going to have an apparently gloppy or too-loose period of time until the water gets fully absorbed to the core of the flour particles.
It's like I describe in my home-milling write up -- the dough goes through 3 phases: Too wet, tight(er), then relaxed. I wait for the relaxed phase before stretch-and-folding or kneading.
But... if you have a significant portion of AP or bread flour in the dough, you can get away with less waiting, but you are developing (and relying on) the gluten of the AP/bread flour, not the durum flour.
It is interesting that many of the traditional recipes have that folded over shape and some even a punch down post shape. This flour seems to generate a wide disparity in hole sizes and and can produce an uneven crumb if certain steps aren't taken. It seems to react quite dramatically to small increments of water and the fineness of the grind.
More tests are needed by the scientific bakers (which I am not one of) so maybe if someone like DanAyo is not too busy ;-)
I'm running with Golden Temple's Atta. It's a whole grain durum.
How would I approach Hamelman's recipe with a whole grain ingredient? As in, what should I do differently or be on the lookout for?
Thank you in advance.
Murph
Murph, I haven’t worked with whole grain semolina before, but I guess you would approach it like other whole grain flours. It may absorb more water than non whole grain flours. It may also ferment more quickly. So keep both those properties in mind when working with that flour.
Yeah, when I learned that Atta was a whole grain durum, I knew there was something I should watch out for. Whole grains are different.
I did buy the semola rimacinata. I'll give that a spin during this CB. It will be interesting to note the difference.
9 kilos of atta (20 pounds). I'm surprised at how quickly all that flour can be used up. Who knew?
Are you whittling down the walk-in? :)
Murph
LOL, very slowly because I recently added 3 kilos of the Semola rimacinata to the walk in.
"I'm running with Golden Temple's Atta. It's a whole grain durum."
To be clearer, it's partial whole grain. It is not 100% whole grain. Look at both the ingredient list (on side or back) and read the fine print on the front.
On the front, it says "Durum wheat flour, durum wheat bran, and wheat flour blend." So it's obviously a "reconstituted" type of flour, having bran added back in. The "and wheat flour blend" means it's not 100% durum, because they left out the "durum" qualifier in front of "wheat flour".
But the front of the package is not required to list _all_ the ingredients, so you have to turn the package around to see the "official" ingredient list... and there you will see the added vitamins.
If it were 100% whole grain, they would not have to add back in the vitamins (a.k.a. "enrichments").
This is probably what you have, correct? https://www.thefreshloaf.com/files/u151432/511FB9A0-64CA-451D-A22F-0A62C0FAA036.jpeg
You can enlarge (un-pinch if using a mobile device) to read the ingredients on the front, but you also need to read the "official" ingredients usually found under the Nutrition Info box on the side or back.
--
So yes, your Golden Temple has some bran, but not all the bran of 100% whole wheat.
And... , the vast vast majority of the flour is durum, so Golden Temple is still good to use. They still have to list the ingredients in decreasing proportions, so the added "wheat flour blend" must be less than the durum bran that is added in.
--
Also, please disregard the "atta = whole wheat" talk, that is just marketing word-play to the point of being mis-leading. (You're in sales, so you know the concept.) It is only _partially_ whole wheat because of some bran added back in.
Idaveindy,
Your picture is EXACTLY what I have.
Whoa, wicked good explanation of what atta really is! Thank you for that. Nicely played, my friend.
You're right I didn't read fine print anything. Just baked it. Because it's what I do. It could have been corn starch for all I really knew of this bag of new stuff.
I suppose, now that you mention it... right on the front of the bag, it does say "flour blend." In big, golden letters albeit light, big, golden letters.
Thank you for the primer, idaveindy!
Murph
Duplicate.
I am sorry.
Murph
Duplicate.
Again.
I fear I am ruining this CB. My apologies again.
Murph
Hey! Who's got my loaf pan???
I mean, I put the thing down after my first bake and... the next day, when I was looking for it... gone!
Floured towel and pan. Both gone. Wife hasn't seen it. We've both been on the lookout for it. Nothing.
How's that happen?!? I don't think I threw it out...
I'm reduced to asking... do you have it?
What's up with that?
Murph
I will check with my elves. Kitchen elves can be so curious and playful and known for all kinds of happenings.
Best R, :)
When something went wrong in our house when I was a kid, it was "Mr Nobody" who was the culprit.
Having used up my semola remacinata, I thought I'd try to use regular semolina in bread. But since it's so coarse, I had an idea to use it as a porridge, which is a delicious breakfast dish in its own right. And considering semolina is just coarsely ground wheat, it's essentially tangzhong. And I decided to use a lot of Kamut flour in the loaf to get that beautiful yellow colour. Since I was imagining it as a more of a slightly enriched "sandwich" bread, I used oat milk as the liquid, and added some honey and butter. Here is my formula: https://fgbc.dk/18k3
For some reason my levain seemed a bit week, didn't quite double overnight - I tried to give it more time but nothing more happened. I proceeded with the bread anyway, hoping essentially refreshing it in the dough would help with the strength. Not sure that worked like I wanted to, the dough was barely moving after a few hours, judging by the aliquot jar. There was a bit off fermentation going on with some bubbles visible on the bottom of the dough through the bowl.
I felt it was starting to break down after 5-6 hours at warm temperature, so I decided to just shape it and hope for the best. In the final proof it actually appeared to grow a little, but nothing like what it normally should. Regardless, I just baked it, since I was afraid of gluten degradation. Surprisingly, there was noticeable oven spring, and the result is not bad: quite dense, but not gummy and fermented throughout the loaf.
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Tastes nice: a little sweet, a little sour, a little buttery and nutty - both from the butter, and from Kamut and semolina porridge, I guess. Despite the fermentation issues, the bread is actually pretty good!
Very nice sandwich loaves Ilya. The crumb is nice and even and the crust is a rich dark colour. Good idea using the semolina as a porridge. I believe I seen it added that way somewhere, may have been Robertson in Tartine, I'd have to check.
Benny
Thank you Benny!
I have only found one other bake online using semolina porridge (not surprisingly, here on TFL), everything else that came up was a combination of semolina flour and oat porridge. Good to know it's a legit idea! Wish I had the Tartine books. Would be curious to see the the results of a real recipe using semolina porridge.
I'm sorry, I just had a quick second to scan the Tartine books and I am mistaken, I don't see a semolina porridge recipe in there, there are formulas for porridge breads including Kamut flakes and Corn which I mistook for semolina. It was in Maurizio's https://www.theperfectloaf.com/seeded-sourdough/ that he uses course semolina. Sorry for any confusion.
Benny
No worries Benny! I think there is also a millet porridge recipe there? Maybe that's another source of confusion. Also saw a Maurizio's version of that.
With porridge once boiled, I think they are all the same: inert, possibly sweet with solidified starch gel. Which starch makes little difference, exception flavor. Here again, I would soak the semolina first if a smooth (not sandy) finished texture is desired.
From appearances, it looks nicely proofed... I see sugars being baked on the crust. That will give you a darker crust. As opposed to blond. Unless you are burning the crust. Which I also see along the corners.
From what I understand, if you bring a weak levain or starter to the game, you're all done. You're going down.
There are no large holes, though, for under-proofing.... and nothing seems collapsed for over-proofing.
What did you think?
Murph
From thinking more about it today, I now have a suspicion my dough was underhydrated. The maths of the amount of liquid including the porridge scared me to add too much extra liquid, but I guess most of the water is bound to the gelatinized starches. So I think I felt like I had issues with dough strength because gluten couldn't properly develop due to lack of liquid. And Kamut flour has a scary 16% protein (I suspect less of it is gluten than in regular wheat?), and protein likes a lot of water. So I'm kind of thinking that fermentation maybe maybe was OKish, but the dough wasn't retaining the gas as well as it could?
Similarly, I used 50% Kamut in the stiff levain. So, maybe Kamut likes more water to develop?
I am feeding my starter just in case to boost its strength for the future anyway, though.
Ilya, you brought up gluten... I've really been thinking about gluten lately since my last successful bake.
A couple of things I'm convinced of...
You and the bakers here already get this. Me? I had to stop and think about this. Gluten was the last piece of the puzzle. So far. :)
Murph
Hi Murph,
A couple of comments to value add to your comments.
The bulk fermentation is where strength a flavour is developed. It's the gluten strands/framework that is created by mixing/kneading that established them. Gluten alone is not enough - I'm assuming that you meant that by "gluten".
Don't take the final proof to the limit; you need some rise left for the oven.
Pre-shaping is essential as it organises the dough into appropriately sized portions and shaped for a bench rest which is part of the fermentation time, often called "middle proof". Shaping gives form to your desired loaf and is the last opportunity to create the desired crumb of the bread type you are baking.
It's good to see how you are progressing, as it is reflecting in your bakes.
Cheers,
Gavin
Hi, Gavin!
Thank you for the value add! I do appreciate it very much. You are very encouraging to a newer baker. I'm getting there! :)
I wanted to circle back to this and maybe get a few comments.
Absolutely with your thought about leaving some bump for the oven. That's why I look at the thing as a whole and not pieces. That was missing from my process in earlier attempts.
"Hey, I gotta do this for these hours and that for these other hours..."
Negative. It all fits together. One flows into the other and everything has to get done. I look at it... now... as a "fermentation."
ONE... long... fermentation. This was an important revelation to me.
Now... by gluten... am am 100% on board with your thoughts. This network of strands is incredibly important. I totally overlooked this in earlier attempts.
Looking back... I can't believe how enslaved I was to the 123 Bread that I refused to learn anything else. I was an idiot! I SO should have SCREAMED out for help!!!
Dude! Stubborn much? That's me all over!
I wanted great bread and... don't get me wrong... you can do it 123 style... but, you know?
That is why I wanted to write down my thoughts and get your value add. I hope I get others.
So far, I think I have fermentation and gluten network strands. Am I missing anything else from your thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
Murph
PS.. I just re-read your thoughts about shaping for crumb type. VERY interesting. That must be slept on... Note to self: Must learn how that works
Inspired by Lance's bake and having a niece whose family hails from the town, I was hot to get my own bake going. Relying on the same video as Lance referred to for my guidance, I went slightly astray and rather than create a true lievito madre, I built a 3 stage 50% hydration levain as my preferment, starting out with a mere 25g of 100% hydration AP. By the third build the levain doubled in three hours.
French Folding a low hydration 100% semolina dough takes some work, but once into the BF, the Letter Folds on my countertop went smoothly with a significant amount of elasticity extensibility displayed by the first fold at the 30 minute mark. Aside from the preferment and the hand mixing, I kept to plan and stayed with the video.
The doubled-over horn shape with the three cuts seemingly representing the Father Son & Holy Ghost lend to the unique look of this bread. And whether considered oddball, beautiful or just plain unique, the shaping is fairly true to form.
The bread bakes for a long time with a descending set of temperatures. There is a 4-5 hr. cool down period, and I'll follow Tom Petty's words - "the wait is the hardest part". Quite pleased as to how the events have so far unfolded.
A fatal flaw! All that just to curve and form the corneto the wrong way. I should have noticed. I did cut the outside of the curve, but as it was incorrectly shaped, I wound up cutting the wrong side. Dang.
All that just to double-cross myself. A lesson learned for the next run!
These pane di Matera loaves are such an interesting shape. I know you won't be cutting on the wrong side of it again, that was an easy mistake to make, fortunately it doesn't take anything away from the flavour of the bread. What do you think of the flavour Alan?
I thought it was hearty without being able to further define it. However, the crumb was mostly compressed due to, uh, you know...
But as one in the medical arts you understand that this is repeatable science looking for a new baseline!
The lady in video wearing Bernie's mittens did a lot of manipulations to achieve what I thought at first glance looked rather simple. So as I see it the bend is backwards and the cut is on the wrong side and it's upside down?! That's the Trinity! We are probably all going to hell for that one, but with good bread
after watching that segment of the video a half dozen times, as well as another vid to see whether there was concurrence, and there was. Just that last dang step. Maybe I was distracted by the mittens, although it might have been the comb-over. I have just enough of the levain left over from yesterday in the back of the fridge to give it a go again tonight if I'm that nuts. I am...I said. (Neil Diamond, 1971)
I have little tolerance for really dopey mistakes and even less tolerance when it is in the 1st person.
My ticket to hell arrived special delivery decades ago.
was my first impression after seeing the pic. It still looks good. I think they like bear claws in heaven, I certainly have a craving for them. :) If I know you, this gives you a good excuse for another bake!
I've got some date paste to use up and it has a very sweet molasses taste and will probably keep forever. I also over roasted some hazel nuts the other day, Couldn't get their almost burnt skins off so I ground them like coffee beans, tasted a little bitter, aroma wonderful. Thinking "Postum" poured boiling water over them in a coffee filter. Wow! Drank and enjoyed a cup of the warm caramel caffeine free brew before thinking ...this would be great in bread! The grounds still remained a little bitter but the brew was fantastic!
I was intrigued by this shaping. I think you did an admirable job, and the bread will be tasty.
the ugly duckling. I tried it again today with much improved results, although if I were to do it again - questionable, I'd have another improvement in shaping to apply. Posted.
Thanks, Alan
please delete
Here's my attempt - a first for baking with semolina (100%) leavened with 20% natural yeast. Details here on Fresh Loaf blog...
I must say there are some gorgeous loaves here! I'm anxious to cut mine and taste it - I'm expecting a tighter crumb, which is fine.
Sure looks great, nice to see all these 100% semolina bakes now. Nice density of sesame seeds on the crust, nice ear and bloom as well. Looking forward to the crumb next.
Benny
Good shaping, scoring, bloom, seed cover, the three distinct colorations on the bloom. Nice job for a virgin run!
Looks great and well done producing a loaf like that with 100% semolina. The sesame seeds at a wonderful nutty flavour.
I had a lot of trouble with 80% hydration, never got past a batter-like slurry.
Cheers,
Gavin.
https://youtu.be/RW1jLRPMWkQ
He makes it look so easy...
I want to work there for a day or two to practice all of those shapes, wouldn’t that be fun?
Brilliant! Looks like he's done that before :)
And the person recording can't hold a camera properly. Doesn't help. However the one that looks the most impressive seems to be the easiest. Making small cuts all along the side of the stretched out dough then rolling it. Simple [he says ?] but effective.
very inspiring, thanks Abe
Leslie
They start filming after he's shown them how to shape the u skuanète.
Every video I watch seems to confirm the hydration of the dough averages at 65%. The natural yeast is of a similar hydration and forms 20% of the flour in bakers percentages. The salt is 2%. No autolyse or any fancy methods.
For a dough with these specs it must be fermented very well with a perfect balance of elasticity and extensibility to be shaped like this. It is well fermented with very little final proofing.
This was fun to watch! Thanks for posting, Abe!
Sure, I'll admit it. I will show you butt-ugly. I don't have anything to hide. I have no shame. I learned something.
This bake was an abject failure. I can't blame the levain. It was beautiful! Just beautiful. Sublime even. To be honest, I've never experienced what a Real Man's levain could be.
This was so ripe. Sweet. Just at peak. And the aroma. Fruity. A little yeast. Just a hint of alcohol. And had a playful jiggle. I wanted to ask it out for drinks. I showed it to my wife instead. She wanted to go dancing with it.
The dough it made was just like its sister levain in aroma. I had this little tiger caged in a loaf pan and tied up in a plastic grocery bag. When I opened it up, a choir of angels lifted sweet incense as a cloud to fill the air. I was stunned to silence to sniff that baby.
Yeh. I proofed it. In the refrigerator just like the recipe said. Just like my last bake, I knew that dough had lots more to give me. I have NO idea what possessed me to cut the extra proof time that I added from my last bake.
The last time around, I gave it an extra 30 minutes here, 30 minutes there just warming up.
This time, I totally pushed this sweet dough right off the ledge. Tragically under-proofed. Why. WHY?
I was fooled by the levain. I thought it could work magic. Just by "being there," great bread would fall from the sky. The only thing that fell was the dough as I gave it a shove off that ledge.
And more's the pity.
I was fooled by that beautiful dough. It won't happen again. Once bitten, twice shy. But not me. Because I have no shame. I will show you butt-ugly. I won't keep it a secret. Because it happens. Often in the shadows.
But the failures come. The wise learn.
Murph
Hey Murph, you should have been a poet :). I'd be happy with that bake when I was first baking sourdoughs. One has to bake to be better. Great move forward!
Cheers,
Gavin
Thanks, Gav,
I totally saw this coming. And the funny thing? I was thinking of writing about how easy it is to fit a bake into a weekday schedule.
Gee, just yank it from the bulk fridge, quick pre-shape, shape... plop it into loaf pan... next day... quick warm-up and bake. Piece of cake, right?
El wrongo!
I knew that levain was good. I was bad. I betrayed it. Bald-facedly. That dough had more to give. I wrote to it. In sorrow.
That was 500g of a 1,000g dough. The other 500g will just sit in the fridge on the top shelf at about 5°C (41°F) until.a couple of mornings from now when I can do it justice.
Thank you for the encouragement. I am learning so much from you and your bakes. And others'. I can't thank you enough.
And thank you, Alan, for running these CBs and both Alan and DanAyo, the originator, for really encouraging novice bakers like me to jump into the pool and really learn something.
This is an amazing experience. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!
Murph
Your script and photos don't match up. You write failure and I don't see it. What are you talking about? Are you just being sarcastic?
The only teeny tiny tweek I can think of is dealing with a big gas bubble or two on the bottom of the loaf. That looks like a pinched seam thing. Next loaf (don't wait too long to make) just before pinching the bottom seam, pop any big bubbles you see and pinch shut to seal. All that other crazy talk of failing is just rubish, you did good and repeat it. Give yourself a hug and pat yourself on your back! Time for a happy dance if you haven't already done so. Take a waltz around the kitchen! So happy for you!
I agree with Mini. Your loaf is a huge success. If my second loaf looked anywhere as good as yours did, I would have been doing a happy dance. I can’t believe you achieved a good ear, on your SECOND loaf. This is totally not a failure whatsoever.
I also agree with Mini, that bread is not underproofed. The crumb looks quite good. Underproofed crumb would be very dense, this is not. Those large holes are related to trapped air during development of the dough, preshaping and final shaping. You’ll want to pop large bubbles that develop during the process. During shaping, some gentle patting down of the dough can also reduce those large bubbles which aren’t fermentation gases.
You should be extremely happy with that loaf. I don’t want to hear any sadness about it, amazing second loaf.
Benny
Wait. What?
I was so going to pitch this. Wasn't going to dull my new knife on it.
I just dropped my wife off to work. I have to get back to sleep. It's going to be a tight day today. Tomorrow, forget about it. Might as well shoot me.
I'll give it a taste later today just for you, Mini Oven. I haven't looked at it through your eyes. It IS bread after all...
Murph
but your post bake analysis besides being a little overwrought may need some retooling. The proof is fine and is not the issue here. What is your oven setup? Are you baking in a DO or on a stone or steel? It looks to me that you are getting a lot of heat and expansion on the bottom. You may need to raise the oven rack. Did you see bubbles on the dough before inverting it and baking it? At any rate most people around here would be more than satisfied with your results so chin up and carry on.
Don
Mini cost me 30 minutes of sleep! :) Heh! I couldn't get back to sleep thinking of that darned seam...
Ok... let's look at this... I hope this note falls at the bottom of all your help. Thank you!
I never thought of the seam part. Never thought of it! I did NOT pinch the internal seams closed. I remember wondering about that during pre-shape. Incredibly good eye, Mini!! Yikes!
Here's the bottom...
I see the seam! Hello? Mini?
Someone asked about the oven setup. Interesting observation!
I forgot to pre-heat my ~9 millimeter (3/8 inch) baking stone. Since I always burn the bottom of my loaves, I decided to load that cold stone in with the dough and pre-heated to 249°C (480°F) Dutch oven.
The stone is always under the DO just one rack away. The oven is turned down to 232°C (440°C) for the 18 minute bake (cover on), 15 minutes, cover off.
No burning. I was happy about that.
Somebody else mentioned absorption. Idaveindy? That thought never crossed my mind. That's a thing, huh?
Hmmm...
I did slice it. With my new knife. Man, that thing sure can cut some bread! Glad I bought it! ~18 bucks and worth every penny!
The chew was tough. I had to pull the bite off the slice with my teeth. I hate that. The crust softened overnight sitting in the plastic grocery bag.
Wow! I sure got some tang out of that! :)
My first bake didn't have much in the way of flavor. It was pleasant. Creamy. An easy bite. It usually ages well and takes on more flavor of some sort.
This bake has tang right out of the gate. Well.. at least a day later. But I do hate that tough chew. The knife helps cut thinner slices to make a useful sandwich out of.
I can't believe your analysis!!!!!! How do you come to know so much?? And be so accurate? Amazing... Just amazing.
This baked to 100.5°C (213°F) internal. I would have liked to take more water out of the crumb to bring the chew factor down or get more fluffy.
Shuffling off... Incredible minds... knowledgeable people here...
Murph
Edit to add crumb shot .
After yesterday's flawed post-shaping, pre-bake scoring mishap I decided to give it one more try. I'd made just enough 50% hydration levain for another bake, and didn't bother with another build or refresh. With virtually no change to the process* I'm now waiting the few hours until I can cut into it, although I still don't understand how the folding, which never saw the top and bottom melded together, can ever incorporate into a single cohesive crumb structure.
* I eliminated the final fold after the two hr retard, opting to leave the dough undisturbed for the entire retard time. Allowed the oven to steam without venting after the first 15 minutes, opting for a full 30 minute steam cycle.
The two photos, taken mere seconds apart in the same location display distinctly different hues on the crust. The browner of the two is the more accurate, although a richer deep brown and less yellow than the photo displays.
1290g x 1 corneto
Edit,
Well, this is a big improvement over yesterday's bake, and although I recognized another shaping flaw - the lower half of the bread should be large than the upper half, I can't express too much disappointment. Perhaps a softer more open crumb. But overall the feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment made the effort worth it.
The bread was baked the recommended time allowance for the total dough amount and at the recommended temperatures. Considering that I gave the bread 6 hours, more than the recommended amount to cool and dry out, I was surprised to feel a still moist crumb.
In all likelihood this will be my final bake of this bread. More to check it off my list and for curiosity rather than any great desire to add it to my now considerable stable of breads, I am certainly not sorry that I baked it, as the process was rather edifying.
Beautiful result! The art of bread making is definitely in full force here :) I would love to try some different shaping techniques as you and Abe have inspired me...
I'm curios, how does this affect the crumb - does it result in a more consistent crumb?
yesterday being my maiden voyage, and with next to zero experience at the extreme upper end of semolina percentages. Yesterday's bake yielded an extremely unsightly tight crumb, and nothing that I'd want to subject a 3rd party's teeth and gullet to. It will still be a few hours before I crack this one open, so here's hoping the crumb will be an improvement, although I'm certain that Lance's (albacore) crumb will win the "ain't she a beauty" contest hands down.
thanks, Alan
It looks like a beautiful mahogany brown butterfly. Marvelous Alan, I’m sure you’re happier with this iteration than the first?
dividends in my comfort at handling and decision making, especially the added confidence at shaping time.
The shape looks like a tripped-out version of a UFO, waiting for 8 legged spider-people to emerge from the central hatchway.
Is a new word that I have learned because it has been used to explain the conspiracy theories behind recent events in the news. Looking at something like wallpaper or clouds and seeing patterns and shapes where none exist. Bearclaw, butterfly, crab spaceship I see them all but I got nothing to add that is fit to print. However I would like to know if you rolled up your sleeves and brought the forearm down on that bad boy like the sweater lady did in the video.
All low but I got it. I don't employ various body parts, extremities or other unprintable regions during this thing we do. Strictly the "karate chop" part of my hand. I did have to remove my Bernie Mittens for the shaping.
Klaatu Barada Nikto, baby!
The sliced bread looks like a pair of mittens with nice holes in them. I had to use google to find “The Day the Earth Stood Still “ reference so no prize for me.
How did Alan get a pair of Bernie’s mittens? I thought they were sold out.
Oh goodness poor Bernie, the demand for those mitts finally got the best of him.
Nice shaping. My breads can do that too. I actually prefer most of them in their true colour but for some reason the light can alter somewhat when photographing. Usually have to try a few angles for the light before I settle on what is the most natural. Then again I don't use the best camera.
the camera was adjunct to the cellphone, but now it has somewhat reversed, and the phone capability is almost an afterthought and appendage to the little devils. We don't see cell phones touted for their calling capabilities, it's all the other things these micro computers can do that are pushed to sell the product. So surprising that two consecutive shots can yield such differing color saturation.
I think that you are looking forward to the crumb more than me! After yesterday I have a bit of trepidation in advance of that first slice, which will also determine whether I want our regular "customer" to get a half of this beast, or best to spare them the agony.
Marvelous work, as always. You set the bar high. Anxious to see the crumb.
actually a long list of others around these parts who have either put the time in service or fast-tracked to set high bars as well. These threads and CBs serve as a symbiotic Petri dish of bakers, skilled or just learning the ropes, that make our discovery of TFL a special find.
I'd hold off on the marvelous part until that first slice is revealed ;-)
Alan
A nice step up from the last. A work of art! Very unique.
Very typical of Pane di Matera. I like the way the crumb is continuous with no fold apparent from the interior. A good crust with a soft and not too open crumb. Airy enough to not be dense but not too holey to take away from that creamy texture. Very nice... and I was right to be looking forward to this ?
The crumb doesn’t disappoint. Looks perfect for this style of rustic bread, great bake Alan. It is now checked off your list, what next?
If you look at this quickly it kind of looks like that cute Alien ET :).
I am very intrigued by this shaping and process. Looks like your second go around was much improved in all respects. Always fun to experiment with different shaping and baking techniques.
Ian
posted his pane di Altamura after his trip to the city it created a little chain reaction on TFL, and a cadre of folks were getting their altamura on, including me. With this neighboring city also having a quite unique form,I figured it was time to combine the two as one entry. Didn't realize I'd be baking it until Lance put up he's version, and I knew I had to get on the stick. Clearly the most unique bread form I'd made, miles ahead of whatever is #2. And as you know, we share that love of semolina breads, but a pure 100% is really not as satisfying as a 60/40 Sem/AP mix to me.
Maybe its the grown up version of playing with our food!
Thanks, Alan
Well yours is certainly a drama queen compared to mine Alan! Well done for taking up the Matera baton and persevering to a much more successful bake #2.
Lance
Your breads are all so beautiful and I'm loving this thread, especially since I've had semolina bread on my list for a while. The truth is that I started with baking Chad Robertson's tartine, and as you might imagine, when you start with a loaf like that, for some there is little desire to bake other things!! But I am finally exploring other things :)
@alfonso, thank you so so much for coordinated and managing this CB. I am a bit unfamiliar with how things work but I think i'm getting the hang of it. I continue to learn and grow as a baker, as that's a goal of mine.
Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and results!
For those who asked, here is a crumb shot along with loaf shot (later posted previously). Specs/details on my Fresh loaf blog if interested. Just a standard bake, didn't follow a formula posted above, although I probably should have branched out a bit.
I was multitasking as usual and so my coil folds and FFs were probably not timed optimally but real life always gets in the way of my bakes LOL - all good though because I keep going and we keep eating. I did have trouble shaping this one because the dough was definitely still a bit slack. Interestingly, the crumb in the center of the loaf is quite even and small with somewhat more of an open crumb on the end, shown here - not sure what caused that but I'm guessing degassing during shaping.
The crumb was quite custardy which was a surprise! Is that typical of semolina?
Image
Image
Now that I've seen the crumb I can safely say that both crust and crumb are beautiful. You've done really well with your semolina bake. May I ask how you're applying the seeds to your dough?
Benny
Hi Benny, I’m not sure if it’s the best method, but I lightly misted the top of the loaf with water and then placed it into a dish of sesame seeds and it seemed to work well...
Thanks meb, similar to what I did for my second bake.
Very nice indeed. From crust to crumb. A soft creamy texture is what's desired from a durum flour bread. I'd be very happy with that.
Thanks for the updated crumb photo. It looks great to me. The larger holes on the ends I have always guessed to be caused by flow. The Tartine loaves are shaped shorter than the basket to allow the high hydration loaves to flow. I have found this dough to be very supple if given enough water and more likely to spread or flatten. I have also found the crumb to be very soft but the crust more substantial.
Welcome to the CB club
Don
DanAyo is the creator and driving force behind the CBs. Some early TFLers may have fostered a few limited mini CB types of all-join-in party, but Dan created a true corner within the TFL website. I'm merely the current custodian of the CBs. Dan asking if I'd take over "for a while". The general concept is the same, and with each new "management company" coming in, a few minor housekeeping changes are inevitable. But the strong bones and structure of the CB were well established by Dan from Day 1, with tweaks as each one came and went.
You may have noticed that I placed a link to your blog at the top. If you wish to be a "repeat offender" on this CB, I suggest that you continue to add to that blog, even placing a link back to your blog for each of your CB bakes on this general CB thread.
What I really like about this CB is uncovering the folks who have stepped forward with an interest in semolina type grains and hopefully helping to foster their bakes and posts. We all prosper from these CBs. Thanks for your interest and participation (psst, tell your friends ;-) ).
Your bake has a lovely crumb, and I think that your description of "custardy" is fairly accurate.
Alan
A delicious loaf which you can taste the high mineral content. Slight tang but more of a sweet smoked flavour. Very interesting! Will suit a deli sandwich.
Improvements for next time: I think it can be just as tasty or do better with less salt. Everything else I'd keep the same but drop it to something more akin to the salt content in rye. This bread has a strong flavour and doesn't need so much salt.
Very nice crumb Abe, somewhat like a 100% rye loaf in some ways. I still haven’t tried making a 100% einkorn anything to taste it on its own. I still have to make that pancake I think you recommended I try making to taste it.
Quite right! A wheat flour that likes to be handled like rye. 70% hydration is the sweet spot for a 100% wholegrain rye. It needs a long ferment for the einkorn to fully absorb the water. Quick einkorn recipes just aren't as well turned out. It's a strongly flavoured flour due to the high mineral content but very pleasant and will suit meats. Can't remember advising to make a pancake with it. That sounds like Mini to me.
Ah if not you then it may have been Dave.
really like the crumb structure. Aside from the amount of time for the grain to absorb water, something that Mini was commenting on just this morning, do you find that einkorn takes more or less water than other grains - like semolina?
Actually surprised myself a little. Well this was 70% hydration using 100% wholegrain einkorn and it produces a no knead consistency dough like an 80-90% hydration rye. Something happens to the texture of the einkorn 'dough' after a very long ferment. It's very sponge like and you can't handle it but it's very easy to portion out into a loaf pan without the need for much smoothing over like a rye bread. It doesn't stick much or need scraping off the spoon either. Difficult to explain but you can see the difference when given the time it needs. Shorter quick rise einkorn recipes just don't have this same effect and they tend to be more gummy. The taste is strong but pleasantly so. Quite long lingering after taste. It would definitely need a topping to match and that's why I'm thinking deli.
Thank you Alan.
Disclaimer... I'm using a locally grown einkorn so all my comments and observations are purely for this flour. I believe in the US you have Jovial and how much they compare I don't know.
Was this like dough when you portioned into the pan or batter-like? It almost sounds like how you'd prepare a batter loaf.
Not quite a batter as it can't be poured in any way. It's like a sponge that has a curious property of knitting together cleanly. So I took spoonfuls and added them to the pan and whereas with rye you'd need to smooth it over and it's still quite sticky this goes back together with less fuss. It starts off exactly like rye but by the time the gluten is fully formed and the flour hydrated it has the property of a sponge and yet of wet sand too.
Beautiful!
Einkorn starter 6g. What's that starter to flour ratio? One to a hundred? (Will it raise durum?)
About 70% hydration. Temp?
Yes, the starter is about 1%. The total hydration is 70%. I wouldn't like to comment about adding durum as I haven't mixed the two before. However I have learned a lot more about einkorn from this bake alone. I'd also, for 100% einkorn, drop the salt percentage. Even go down to 1.6% for my next trial. Often wondered why some flours, like rye, have much less salt and I've finally understood. This is a strong flour with a lot of minerals so less salt will compliment it better.
I decided to make a 100% golden semolina (Grieß in German) loaf first. 66% hydration. Saltolyse. :)
Loaf # One. Started off with an overnight soak 22°C. Basic: 500 durum semolina, 8g salt stirred into the flour, and 330g water. The water sunk immediately to the bottom of the container like it was sand (and it felt like wet sand, next time I dissolve the salt into the water). snapped the cover on and pushed it aside to soak. Yesterday I poked it after about 12 hours and thought it had soaked evenly and turned into a rough doughy mass, just needs a slight kneading to pull it all together. But I didn't have time so snapped the lid back down.
Time went on and by evening still no time to play. So after soaking a total of 24 hours, I put it into my 6°C refrigerator overnight to play with it today. Plopped it out onto clean countertop and spread out the soft lumps to about the size of a dinner plate. Crumbled 21g of fresh yeast over the top and sprinkled on a teaspoon or two of maple sugar flakes. Waited a minute then rolled up the dough to let the yeast and sugar dissolve. After 5 minutes did a light kneading with to distribute the yeast and shaped into a ball, bulk rise to double. Divided into 8 balls 7 100g each with one larger one for the middle of my crown. It's in the oven and almost done.
Done but not risen as high as I expected. Photos to follow.
In my experience durum (semolina or flour) degrades relatively quickly. You managed to get a very long soak out of it and the resulting loaf looks very good! Looking forward to the crumb shot.
Perhaps you used less than fine semolina which helped with the long soaking. And of course the long soaking helped too.
and I wouldn't recommend a 36 hr soak, 12 is more than enough. The crust is very hard and the crumb is nice, not compact but still reminds me of grits without being gritty, if that makes sense. The dough was starting to show signs of degradation while putting the Corona together. I prayed during the final rise. I've noticed that the successful recipes using this type of semolina are steamed or boiled doughs, not necessarily baked.
I am still wondering what a semolina/einkorn dough would do. If there was a bread I'd throw into a bread pudding (with apples and raisins) it would be the one above, just to soften the crust. Flavour is good, but flavourful crust hard on the teeth. Will bag it and see if it softens. It's not even 2" high, so cute! Now I have something to compare w/a durum/einkorn bake.
Edit: retake of the crumb shot
Image
Very creative Mini, love the corona shaping. For sure that was a long autolyse at least it had the salt it in and you kept it cold. Nice even crumb.
overnight in a bag. Half of it disappeared too. Hubby was up for a midnight sandwich. "Was the crust hard?" "Yup, but it was tasty."
Moisture moved to the crust leaving the bread slightly dryer in the middle.
Tonight put together einkorn/golden semolina slow overnight bulk rise. pretty much Abe's measurements reducing slightly the water and salt. Dough didn't act like wet sand this time, had to stir to moisten flours. Very yellow dough.
And I can understand what you mean by grits without being gritty. Fine semolina one can get away with ending up with a comparable bake to durum flour but coarse semolina may not get that kind of crumb. Boiling or steaming may serve to further break it down.
I've been thinking about your semolina and einkorn combo and I think it might work well. My einkorn is string flavoured. Not for everyone. The high mineral content in this flour can't be missed which I'm thinking the long ferment enhances more so. However one needs a long ferment to bring the best out of this flour when it comes to texture. With semolina being a more gentle sweet grain it might compliment the einkorn and tame it a bit.
I'm also thinking that a long autolyse for a 100% einkorn dough then a high percentage of starter for a shorter ferment might also be an avenue worth exploring. So one gets the best of both worlds. Perhaps a saltolyse might work here too.
Lovely looking crumb Mini, are you happy with this bake?
the kitchen adventure waiting for the newly resurrected einkorn starter to "get its yeast on" but the long wait was informative. When I worked IDY into the dough after 20 hours to speed it along before it got too sour from the sd bacteria, surprise! The dough was actually a pleasure to work. The taste is a step down from intense flavour of pure einkorn bread but einkorn is still quite lovely and dominant. I used Abe's recipe for his beautiful full einkorn loaf, adjusting the hydration down to 66% for the portion of semolina and lowering the salt to 10g.
The einkorn seemed to slow the breaking down of the semolina matrix, not unlike the way sifted wheat flour can slow rye matrix deterioration all resulting in longer wet/working times with the dough. I would like to work toward a softer crumb although this crumb is moist and can hold up to just about any topping by itself, open face. The crust is not the tooth breaker like my pure semolina loaf. More details on my blog within a few days.
With just butter and my not so thrilled about bread dog has been hanging around this loaf and slices drooling for tidbits. :) ?
That happens a lot since hubby retired. Don't know where my notebook is hiding. I need to put a GPS tracker on that thing when it pops up.
Speaking of soaking...
I retarded a dough for 5.5 days and baked a pancake. The place smells of alcohol. Which is not a bad smell, by the way. Not quite fingernail polish. Alcohol.
This was the other half of a dough from last week. The one I shoved off the ledge.
I have GOT to get timing down. :)
Murph
That must be some sort of record Murph, 5.5 days of cold retard.
Deleted
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67243/community-bake-durum-bread
As many of you may know I have posted many breads with Durum flour. This one only has around 40% Durum but since it uses fresh milled flour you really taste it.
until you hoped on board and I was wondering what the delay was! These both look pretty nice and your laundry list of ingredients seems to have been pared down the just the essentials. When I look at the more rectangular, upper one I see a blimp with the scrolling ads on its side.
Alan.
I had to wait until my delivery of durum berries arrived! I didn’t want to get too crazy for this one but it did take all of my willpower to resist adding another 10 ingredients ?
Nice pair of semolina loaves Ian, and even better with both black and white sesame seeds, yumm.
Benny
I knew you would like the multicolored sesame seeds. Glad you like the bake.
Great idea to put the seeds in the banneton so they march in a line. I am going to look for semolina berries for my mill just to see how they taste when milled fresh.
If you are a Amazon Prime member you can get them at a reasonable price.
Nice bake. The loaves look very inviting and I love the mixed sesame seeds.
Glad you like it.
Looking for advice regarding fine semolina I got, and whether it's useful for bread baking.
I went (well, cycled) to the Indo-Pak grocery shop yesterday hoping to get some durum atta flour. Unfortunately, no bags of flour they had, had the word "durum" on it, and moreover the people working in the shop had never heard that word before, and even after googling they couldn't really help me whether any of their atta flour was indeed durum, or it contained any durum.
During the explanation of what durum us, I mentioned that semolina is made from durum, so they suggested I try fine semolina. And the one particular brand they suggested they described as very "floury". The way it was packaged I couldn't really tell just how fine it was, but it was clear to me it was still not flour. And interestingly, it didn't really have the golden colour semolina typically has, and looked like it had bran in it. So I thought maybe it was wholemeal, and that was masking the colour? I still bought it just to see what it is.
So now I put a little of this "fine semolina" next to my regular supermarket semolina (on the left, it is actually pretty fine!), and some bread flour that I always use (on the right - and it some has specks of bran, that is normal for this brand). So I am now wondering what people think about this.
It looks to me like this Indian semolina is less fine than British brand I have already. And it's definitely much less yellow. At the same time, when I had semola remacinata it also appeared far less yellow than semolina.
[url=https://ibb.co/QXtwbzS]
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Which of the two would be better for baking bread? Should I use it in an overnight perferment or saltolyse to properly hydrate the "flour"?
I feel for your confusion, Ilya. I too have searched for durum semolina via the Asian shop/Atta route.
I was hoping that there might be durum chapatti flour (or atta) available that could be sifted to produce semola. This is not the case. I have come to the conclusion that there is no durum atta in the UK - probably not in India either. I believe that this is a product unique to the USA (not sure why) - and used by TFL members, notably idaveindy. I even checked with big UK producer Elephant Atta and none of their chapatti flour is durum.
However Asian shops do sell semolina, which comes in fine and coarse versions. The ones I have bought did look similar in colour to what you buy from UK supermarkets, eg the Marshalls brand and I am pretty sure they are durum, but the one you are showing, less so.
And now it gets more confusing: I recently bought some organic semolina from Shipton Mill intending to remill it in my Mockmill, but it wasn't very yellow so I checked with Shipton Mill and they said it wasn't durum! The problem is that semolina is simply an intermediate product in the roller milling process. I'm not sure what the point of selling it is, though. Gilchesters sell a similar product, but probably more wholemeal.
In conclusion, I would say to use the yellow product. Remill it if you can or give a very long low temp saltolyse. I think Pul on TFL made good bread with semolina.
Lance
Is 'grit' and it can refer to any grain ground coarsely. Although it's usually taken to mean durum semolina but always check first. TBH if you can find fine semolina (of the durum kind and it's readily available) then that can be used in place of durum flour albeit with lower hydration. Durum flour or Semola Rimacinata is easily available in Italian stores.
And considering traditional Italian recipes using Semola Rimacinata are low hydration, yet people are taking it to 80% for some reason, then using fine semolina at the correct hydration called for in Italian recipes is no problem.
Thanks a lot Abe, that is really confusing, and finally we got to the bottom of that, I hope! I'll try my regular semolina in a low hydration slow fermenting recipe then.
The one Italian deli I know that has semola remacinata where I got it before is unfortunately temporarily closed due to the lockdown.
OK, thanks again! I guess I'm creating a stiff starter offshoot - again :)
Would you make dough with only fine semolina, not real durum flour, without adding bread flour? That also seems like quite a high inoculation, might not allow enough rising time to let it properly develop, if it's not real flour. Do you think that would work still?
Thanks a lot for the insight Lance. If I could simply grind semolina I would do that, but unfortunately I don't have a mill.
None of the chapatti flours looked golden. All the other brands of semolina looked like the British one, either fine or coarse (I think the fine ones were less fine than this though). Just this brand looked like this. I just thought maybe if it's some kind of "whole grain" semolina maybe it wouldn't be obviously yellow?
That is so confusing, I thought semolina had to come from durum! Although I also know that semolina I've seen in Russia was not yellow, but I assumed something was just lost in translation... But now it all starts to make sense.
Thanks a lot again. Wish everything was more clearly labelled and simpler, but I guess milling is such an ancient traditional process, a lot of historical things persist.
The Semola rimacinata that I have is the colour of your semolina just milled more finely. The Durum Atta is also available in Canada, widely available actually at quite a few supermarkets in Toronto downtown.
Nor autolyse. Traditional Italian recipes do non of that. Just build a leivito madre or old dough pre-ferment then go straight into the final dough. Don't overwork a semolina (or durum flour) dough as it'll breakdown easily. Just concentrate inverting the fermentation right.
Right, thanks Abe. I was thinking to build a preferment with the semolina overnight directly from my usual rye starter. You think it should be low hydration? Like biga?
Just written out a typical recipe for you. A few builds of a low hydration starter to build up strength should do it. Form the dough and knead till done then bulk ferment.
As per the formula written for the bakers ratio. The starter however while there are guidelines I haven't seen exact builds and maintenance. However they are low hydration and fed at least 3 times 3-4 hours apart before using. Without knowing the exact formula I'm guessing LM style. It is difficult to get 3 feeds in unless you're a baker getting up at 4am. So why not the first build overnight to convert then 2 feeds the day of? Something like this...
But then again that is just one interpretation. You could also build an old dough of something like...
Allow that to mature and refrigerate then the next day use 100g in the final dough. Just two ideas.
Thanks Abe. I just built a tiny stiff offshoot, also incorporated those small flour samples I pictured earlier so as not to waste them :)
I've never tried using old dough (on purpose). I might combine the ideas!
The is what I did to build the 50% hydration levain for the pane di Matera. The 3rd build took three hours to double and done in my warm-side kitchen.
Build 1 will get you from a 100% hydration starter to a 50% hydration levain. Builds 2 & 3 will strengthen the levain as it builds up volume. Since I'm using the durum atta I can only testify that this was a very successful endeavor. I think the first build was in the neighborhood of 6 or 7 hrs. Same for build #2, Build #3 was the defining 3 hr affair.
Uses a 50% hydration starter and does two builds before going onto the final dough in a very similar approach to a LM build and prepping a starter for durum breads. This bread has a lovely flavour due to the technique, a mix of flours and a long final proof in the fridge. Well worth trying.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/479725#comment-479725
This is my second bake of this black and white sesame seed crusted 100% semolina sourdough bread. The changes I made this time were all related to the application of seeds and the bulk fermentation to make that application easier. I bulk fermented until the aliquot jar showed 50% rise. At that point I went to final shaping. Once shaped I brushed the dough with water. I had my 9x13” pan filled with the sesame seeds pushed to the sides. I transferred my dough to the center of the pan and then spread and dropped and brushed the seeds on ensuring a de nse application of seeds. I was then able to flip the seeded dough onto my hand and then transfer it seam side up into the banneton. Although the dough was handled more than when not seeding the dough, I felt it degassed much less than the first time. I then allowed another hour of bench rest wairing until the aliquot jar showed a 70% rise. The dough was then placed in a 4ºF fridge for 24 hours cold retard.
Baking followed my new procedure with the aim to have a thinner crust and bottom as above.
Do think you hit the target on the thinner crust and bottom?
Thanks Troy. I won’t know until I slice this, but i has worked on my other breads I’ve baked with that strategy.
That's so beautiful Benny, love the shape of your score too! Looking forward to the crumb shot!
Thanks Ilya, I’ll slice it tomorrow and post the crumb photos then.
A wonderfully inviting loaf with good colour. I think you can be confident in the crumb outcome. Keep us posted.
Cheers,
Gavin
Those pics a bit like that first Star Trek movie where they spent 10 minutes circling the Enterprise. So how dId that gorgeous golden loaf taste? Suspense is killing me...
I’ll be able to tell you tomorrow when I slice it at lunch!
With the golden crumb appearing through the sesame encrusted crust. Looks very inviting Benny.
Thank you Abe I quite like how it looks. Hopefully the crumb won’t disappoint.
Awesome bake. Glad your seeds turned out so well.
Thank you Ian.
Happy Baking, nice to see you joining the CB.
Benny
A beautiful loaf!! I was just reading about the aliquot idea on Instagram today...love the idea, I must try!
My question though is since we are not folding and strengthening the aliquot dough (and possibly degassing it a bit?)- does it truly correlate with the bulk rise of the main dough?
The aliquot jar overestimates the rise of the dough for exactly the reasons you mention. I always try in my formulas to state 60% rise of the aliquot jar and not 60% rise of the dough. However, with use overtime you definitely get a feel for the dough and learn to better identify when the dough is adequately fermented. Here’s my article with video describing how I use an aliquot jar. Although I have learned to see and feel what well fermented dough looks and feels like, there are still many instances when that doesn’t easily apply. For example, if you make breads with many inclusions such as fruit or nuts to a high percentage. Those inclusions at high percentage such as 20% each, will greatly affect the feel and look of the dough and that does make it harder to know when bulk is complete. With the aliquot jar you have an objective measure of the rise of the dough without those inclusions and thus a good idea about its degree of fermentation. Also, when repeating a bake as I just have, you can make adjustments to your bulk to try to achieve certain goals with your bread. So for my recent bake I wanted the dough more firm at the end of bulk so I shaped earlier. Then keeping the aliquot jar going longer allowed me to know when I wanted to stop bench final proof and go into a cold retard. Anyhow, I have found it super useful and it has really helped my baking improve in a big way in the past several months that I have been using it.
Benny
I’m very pleased with the crumb. It is surprisingly custardy considering how relatively course the flour feels relative to most I’m used to working with. I think I could have left it longer post shaping on the bench maybe wait for cold retard until 80% rise in the aliquot jar. That being said, I’m not disappointed.
Amazing crumb Benny, just perfect!
Thank you kindly Ilya, that is very generous of you.
I'm coming over with a BIG cheese plate! Wine? Ok, will grab some bottles too! Yay!
Thanks Mini, you don’t need to bring anything, I have cheese and wine here. Now you’ll need to open to trying our local Ontario wine which are actually outstanding, but many people haven’t tried out wines before and think we can only make ice wine.
human home baking population. No one should be allowed to progress as quickly and so skilled as you. My advice is to stop right now, because you're making the rest of us look plain silly. There must be a cave without an oven that you can return to and live the troglodyte life again.
Your snail's eye view displays a marvelous and lovely gelatinized crumb. One of my personal hallmarks of success is consistency from bake to bake. Well, here it is.
That is quite the compliment coming from you Alan, thank you very much. Honestly, I sometimes think that baking those darned baguettes and not giving up taught me more about baking bread during those months than all the rest of the time I was trying to bake bread.
With these two bakes I wanted to see what can be done with semolina that isn’t traditional lower hydration. I was trying for a more open crumb yet still getting that lovely semolina flavour and seeing if a custard like crumb was possible. In fact it all is. I just remember Michael Wilson writing sometime back that you have to fully develop the gluten early on with semolina. So I took that advice to heart. The crumb on his bake was still more open, but this is the style of open crumb I like, not crazy open where you’d lose your wetter toppings.
I'll just take the "thank you very much". Don't take it personally, but please leave out the "coming from you" part, which I've seen here and there directed at me recently by a few TFL compatriots.
Truly, my opinion and analysis carries no more gravity than anyone else's, and way way less than from someone on top of the mountain - like a Mr. Hamelman, et al.
As with you and a fat handful of others on TFL, we are plain folk who just "figured it out" a little better than some, less so than others. So while I appreciate the nice compliment, I really do think that it is misplaced.
Bruschetta. Lovely indeed!
Thanks Abe, yes it would make a great bruschetta now if we only had some really ripe sweet tomatoes around this time of year I’d make some. But alas, only hothouse tomatoes this time of year, not bad but not wonderful either.
and the crumb is perfect! your bakes have just got better and better.
Leslie
Thanks so much Leslie, I really appreciate your comments.
Happy Baking.
Benny
Not much to say except: Amazing.
–AG
Thank you AG, much appreciated.
You have raised the bar so high that the rest of us will have to be content to just walk under it.
Thank you Don, but that’s hardly the case.
a little hyperbole and not meant to diminish the other outstanding bakes here of which there are many. So nice job keep up the good work.
Don
Great outcome. Looks amazing.
Cheers,
Gavin.
Thank you Gavin, cheers.
Benny
Looks fantastic! Very glad to hear it came out like you wanted.
Thanks Troy, I can always think of something to change, but I am quite pleased with this bake.
Hi! First time posting here, and I'm really thankful for the great recipes and advice on this site. This is my attempt at Hamelman's Semolina recipe. I not sure why the crumb seems a little dense and maybe underproofed in some parts. The dough also didn't rise much in the fridge or after shaping. In general how long should I retard it after shaping? Thank you!
Your boule looks pretty good on the outside, that's for sure. My instruction for this dough is to retard for at least 10-12 hours. You can decide whether you wish to divide and shape before retard or somewhere along the way, but give it the ample amount off time to develop more flavor and character under refrigeration. If your dough is still tight-crumbed, then it may be that you are being too aggressive with the shaping. A good rule of thumb across almost all doughs is the less handling, the better.
Alan
Thanks for the advice Alan :) I'll try being more careful with the shaping. Generally how do you decide when is a good time for shaping? Are there some signs like the dough size or bubbles on the surface?
completes. How you determine that is up to you and experience. There are many who shape directly out of BF, but I prefer to do so after a few hours of retard most of the time.
There are a number of threads on TFL that discuss when to consider BF complete.
Depending on the temperature of your fridge, you may not see any rise in cold retard. In fact when I used to keep my fridge at 2ºC (I now keep it at 3ºC) I used to see some shrinking of the dough. If however your fridge is over 5ºC you may see some rise.
Your loaf looks a wonderful big full shape, lovely.
Thanks Benny :) Yea, I think my fridge's temperature is not very stable, so it could be different depending on the day.
Posting photos here is a little confusing at first but feel free to add a larger image of your nice loaf.
Thanks! Will do for future CB posts.
A few changes from the prior bake
I failed to go tip to toe in the scoring of both, an unusual event for me, hence the ends are not symmetrical. But that's nitpicking. This is fine improvement over the first run with the much richer coloration that I was unable to achieve at the lower temperature.
I'll be baking this again (and again...)
800g x 2 filone
Now that is the crust colouration that I expect from an Alfanso bake, beautiful and such a great contrast with the seeds and the crumb poking its yellow head through. Love the profile of this loaf it really shows the powerful oven spring that opened up the grigne and ear. Beautiful baking Alan.
Benny
Wow! These are outstanding. I must try them. Great bake.
Cheers,
Gavin.
I'd recommend following a few of the changes I made. It bewilders me why the bake temp was set so low, at 400dF, unless that may have also been another transcription problem. I've never seen the book, so I don't know how the formula is laid out in the publication.
If you use a mixer you shouldn't have the poolish incorporation issue I had with hand mixing. The descriptions of the dough being tacky at the end of mixing, and puffy at the end of BF are accurate. My long batards usually top out at ~450g, so it was fun to shape this 800g filone.
Do try it, at 55 sem/45 AP it is a good flour mix for me, aka to my favored 60/40 Hamelman levain version.
Thanks, Alan
And I happen to like the way they've opened up. A crumb I very much admire from a semolina/durum loaf and topped with sesame seeds. You should be very happy with these. I would be.
from the first iteration. Another in those getting the feet wet for the first time or two to figure what works best, or at least better, in my kitchen.
Looking forward to this morning's breakfast toast!
thanks, Alan
excellent oven spring & crumb! as we would expect
Leslie
It would sound like a cat call. Bellissimo!
... on those loaves is outstanding! I’m guessing it tastes just as good.
to have more appeal than something that leans too heavy on the semolina only side. Anywhere from 50-60% or so of semolina is my sweet spot. And for those who like them, the crumb coating of the sesame seeds adds another layer of flavor that enhances the bread.
The coloration was missing from the first bake due to the low oven temp, corrected on this go-around. And I also give the oven a lot of steam for the first portion of the bake.
thanks, Alan
Great crust and crumb. Perfect for grilling with some good EVO brushed on top!
reveal that our dinner was preceded by my wife's avocado toast with the bread. The toast has EVOO and a sea salt sprinkle before a layer of ripe mildly mashed avocado. A yuppie bruschetta? (my days of being a yuppie, if I ever was one, ended when the 'y' part left the age equation 3-4 decades ago and the 'p' part parted 20 years ago!)
thanks, Alan
Details in my blog entry https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67261/semolina-pain-au-levain-bake-1
Definitely a humbling experience after all the awesome loaves posted so far... :-)
That's a loaf that deserves an awesome title. Looks delicious!
...for everything. I really appreciate it.
Looking forward to trying it tomorrow.
Looks very nice. You should be "pumped up" with this bake.
Cheers,
Gavin
...after making the first slice. Wasn’t sure what to expect before that. :-)
as good as any! well done
Leslie
... for the help (I referred back to your blog post a couple times today to make sure I was on track).
Troy, you should be very very proud of this loaf, the crumb is excellent, you’ve achieved an ear. It has a good oven spring and you taken on the challenge of seeding the crust something which many bakers find difficult. Goon on you.
Benny
...and I appreciate the help answering newbie questions too. ;-)
this is a lovely bake all around.
As most on TFL would agree, it is hard to go wrong with a Hamelman formula. I recommend buying a scale that can read in at least tenths, if not hundredths of a gram. A worthwhile investment, they are inexpensive (~$USD 10-12) and to me, a near essential tool for bread baking.
This entire home craft is generally a quite inexpensive hobby, and few coins spent on the tools of the trade don't add up to very much vs. many other hobbies. The tasty ends certainly justify the means!
It is good to see you adapting to the BBGA formula layout.
...you should mention the scale. I was just going to start looking into them today. The one thing I have been struggling with on my current scale (+/- 1g increments), especially with starter maintenance when working with small amounts, is which side of the whole number am I on. It will be my next investment.
The BBGA layout makes perfect sense to me. Was an easy transition to make after seeing your post and doing a little research. ;-)
Are you allowed to breathe in the same room? What if a truck drives down the street? 1 gram is about 1/28 of an ounce. If I was making pharmaceuticals that would be an appropriate degree of graduation in baking seems a bit pedantic.
Sure, hundredths is over the top, but when I bought mine, and its eventual replacement, that's what it was. I ignore the final digit. A trusty tool for years, for that price I'm not going to concern myself.
that this kind of precision was important in baking. Over the years I have rounded up and down my ingredients to make recipes easier to remember. I use to weigh 482 grams of flour were now that recipe is 500 grams. Salt and yeast are ingredients I am more exacting with, but the nearest gram is close enough.
Followed the recipe suggested by Abe for pane cafone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZi2tSwndiU). Used fine semolina instead of semola rimacinata due to availability.
Converted my 100% hydration rye starter to a stiff wheat starter overnight, then did three quick builds during the day (the second and third are part of the recipe). Added like a 5 min saltolyse before mixing in the starter to let the semolina hydrate a bit before kneading, to avoid grittiness. I don't think my starter was quite a vigorous as in the video, so extended the time between/after the fold to 30 min. After kneading the dough was so nice, very soft and just a little tacky, but not at all sticky. Shaped into a long loaf and proofed overnight on a couche in the fridge.
Baked 25 min with steam, and around 15-20 min more without, and left it in the cooling oven with the door ajar for a bit. Got very nice oven spring and good colour. Surprisingly, the crust is a bit soft, unlike my previous breads with durum, where the crust was super hard and crispy.
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Will cut and see the crumb later today.
See all my bakes for this CB here.
And I'm sure you'll love the taste too. It's a very nice recipe. Looking forward to the crumb shot and hearing what you think about it.
shaping, coloration and scoring, to our prior deli-rye bakes! I love the color, really pretty. And a formula I've yet to get around to on my formula "Rolodex". Your version looks way more appealing than the video version. I think you may have just pushed me there!
I have to agree with Alan, Ilya your version looks far more delicious than the one baked in the video. You achieved a rich crust colour that beautifully contrasts with the crumb poking through. It looks a proper peasant bread, but more refined.
Thank you everyone for the kind words, but they might have been a bit premature. As I was worried with this formula that essentially calls for only cold final proof and almost no bulk ferment, I think my bread is underproofed. Unless I trapped all these bubbles during shaping, but I am pretty sure I didn't - shaped it quite tightly and tapped it in the end pretty firmly to squash any potential trapped air. And the rest of the crumb is much denser than expected from the video, but not hopelessly so.
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The denser areas are still not completely dense, and overall it's tasty, with very good flavour. The bottom crust and the areas next to the scores are crispy, although the rest of the crust is not. But I guess it needed at least an extra half an hour at room temperature before retarding for a proper proof. I don't know if it's because my starter is not as strong, or the fridge is colder...
The builds should have been given more time and allowed to double. However in the 3-4 hours they should have no trouble doubling and that should have been an indicator. It does look under fermented and think it points to a slower starter. Perhaps next time, if you try it again, give the dough a bulk ferment and only shape when it's reached that tell tale puffiness.
I've done this a few times in the past and love the very flavoursome taste. Like a very well done biga loaf.
I think the flavour is really surprisingly nice for an underfermented bread. I feel it has some sort of savoury thing going on, some depth of flavour I can't quite put my finger on. I'll definitely repeat this and give it some extra fermentation time. And maybe I'll create a new stiff wheat offshoot longer in advance and feed it for a couple of days to give it strength. These italian breads need a supercharged starter!
Also I forgot to mention, the last build definitely doubled in the end, in just under 4 hours.
I am guessing from this and other bakes that your starter needs a boost. Which seems somewhat surprising since you seemed to be using it often. Your starter might be deficient in the gas producing yeast side of the ledger. As a man more steeped in science than me I am sure you could come up with a regimen to make it more balanced. MTCW
I keep a whole rye starter in the fridge and then build levains from it. After the last bake where it appeared the levain was weak, I strengthened the starter with a couple of feedings, and that was just a few days ago. I am confident the starter was strong enough for any regular bread. But I think this sort of procedure with almost no bulk ferment time and cold final proof requires a super-powered starter. I had exactly this concern when starting this bake, but just trusted the process, that consecutive builds would make it sufficiently strong. But alas.
I've got 2 kg fine semolina today and want to figure out this bread properly, even underfermented it's very nice, while requiring very little hands-on time with the dough.
Fortunately you enjoy the flavour so the under fermentation isn’t too bad.
Indeed, not perfect, but still enjoyable bread. I'll work on it again in a few days.
That looks really good! Love how you've shaped and scored it. Congrats!
Thank you - I indeed forgot to mention that I wanted to try making some loaf shaped in a longer shape than a batard, and this fit the bill perfectly. Also a good opportunity to use my couche, which otherwise is not used very much.
I just finished my first community bake and it is great fun to share the results with the community!
I made the Hamelman Semolina Bread which is a recipe I have made several times before and one of my favorites, but I tried to up my game by taking advantage of the teachings of all of you folks.
In particular, I tried to develop the gluten much further in the initial mix. This resulted in a pretty tight firm dough. I decided to add some additional water (probably too much too quickly), and had trouble getting the dough to come back together although it did after a lot of additional mixing. At the end, it was still hard to pull a clear window because not sufficiently extensible, although the holes that would develop when it was stretched to its limit were perfect smooth circles (no rough edges) which I have been told is a sign of full gluten development. In any event it relaxed significantly during the bulk ferment (with two rounds of folding) and I could then pull a good window.
In the past I have retarded the proofing of the shaped loaves and baked them the next morning, but this time I did not.
I coated the loaves with a mix of sesame and nigella seeds—the combination I think is delicious but it probably overpowers the subtle taste of the semolina.
The look of the loaf and crumb was far better than my prior efforts—the crumb definitely more open, but need to work on eliminating those giant holes—do you think this are result of shaping problems, failure to sufficiently degas dough, or proofing problems?
I did find the crumb tougher (more like a 100% bread flour sourdough boule) than I remember from prior bakes. Perhaps this was from overworking dough? Or from not retarding the final proof?
Anyway I think I may try one of the higher percentage semolina recipes next. And experiment with this one again of course!
Charlotte
...and you can always contribute to previous ones too. They're always open. That is an interesting topping using nigella seeds. I've used them in a tomato sourdough which complimented the flavour very well but I can see how it might be a bit overpowering for the subtle sweet taste of semolina. That is a lovely looking loaf and a great crumb too. I'm in definite agreement with your love for Hamelman's recipes. If there's only one recipe book a person can have then it should be his book 'Bread'. Looking forward to more of your contributions to the community bakes.
Thank you for the encouraging words Abe!
Hi Charlotte, nice to see bakers join in who’ve never participated in a CB before. The crust, scoring and bloom look excellent on your loaf. You’ve done well getting the seeds on as well, I love the look of the black and white seeds (no surprise ?). Your crumb looks great, regarding the larger holes they do look like air trapped during shaping or folds. I haven’t baked the formula that you did but I can say that the 100% semolina crumb wasn’t tough at all.
Looking forward to your next creation.
Benny
Thank you for the positive feedback. Yes, I suspected the holes were trapped gas—need to work on that on my next bakes. I’ve noticed your beautiful black and white bakes too—they are very striking!
I made the same bread and also had a slightly chewy crumb. Like you, I omitted the overnight retard, so maybe there is a relationship. It's super tasty with the seeds anyway and you certainly baked a good looking bread. Nice!
Another Girl—Thank you so much for your feedback!! Next time I bake this bread I will definitely reinstate the overnight retard. Even if it has no effect on the crumb, it certainly is easier to score a cold loaf!
Pane Cafone
First to convert my 100% hydration starter into a 50% hydration starter...
Left to mature until fully ripe then onto the first of two pre-ferments...
3-4 hours; until doubled. Then onto the second build...
3-4 hours; until doubled. Then onto the final dough...
A very soft and creamy crumb with less of a sourdough and more of a biga flavour. Very happy with this bake. Only thing I recommend is not dropping the salt as much. Thought I'd lower it as much as possible but will benefit from the original amount. And while this recipe worked well for me I'd still be tempted to get in a bulk ferment. I don't see why it's left out and can only imagine it'll benefit more from having one. When I next do this recipe I'll stick to the original salt amount and add in a bulk ferment.
Nice bake, Abe. Blistered crust, tender looking crumb. To what do you attribute the biga-like flavor? The durum flour or stiff starter? Both? Neither?
–AG
I think it's down to the starter. Converting it to a 50% hydration starter then two builds just a few hours apart leivito madre style. The high percentage durum helps sweeten the final loaf too. You wouldn't eat this and think sourdough. Much closer to a flavourful biga.
I've already got my spreadsheet set up for my next semolina bake - this. Created off a video's ingredients and amounts, although I imagine that only a "cafone" would think there was only one formula to this bread.
Just a word of warning if following this recipe. While this bake went very smoothly you're going to have to treat this recipe like all others. Tweak if need be! Some find this formula comes out ready to bake from the fridge while some people find it needs more time. While I didn't feel the need to I think it's ok to stray from the recipe somewhat and give it a bulk ferment if you wish.
What's makes this a Cafone is the high percentage of durum flour which they substituted for instead of the bread flour as it was more expensive. Well not according to my local Italian grocer who sells durum flour at 3x the bread flour price.
Lol.. i'm sure there are many Cafone recipes Alan and look forward to your version.
It looks very inviting Abe, both the crust and the crumb. Sounds like the flavour is spot on as well.
Benny
They don't like sourdough because it's tangy (most people say this without even tasting sourdough first mind you) then may this recipe put that to bed. Sourdough is what you make it.
Thank you Benny.
Yes very true like the various perhaps “unorthodox” semolina bakes here ?
Very nice looking loaf Abe!
Color in the crust and the crumb look great and I really like the scoring pattern.
A close but soft crumb. Perhaps a bulk ferment would be advantageous but I'm still happy with the results. A curious but good tasting recipe.