Tuesday morning, we decided to go visit the Duc de la Chapelle, Anis Bouabsa's bakery in Paris. As you probably know, he won this year's Best Baguette. The bakery is situated in a modest neighborhood, far from the typical tourist traps and chic areas. We entered the bakery and asked he woman behind the counter several questions before buying a selection of breads. She was very nice and helpful. As we left the bakery, we took some pictures of the young baker/apprenti who was scoring baguettes and sliding them in to the oven. Disappointed by the quality of the photos through the window, Florence returned and asked if we could go inside and take just a few pictures. The woman showed her the way, no questions asked!
Once inside, who came through, but Anis himself! I felt like a teenager who was getting a real-live view of her movie star hero. He looked at me through the window and asked Flo who I was. I think he thought I was a bit idiotic because I had such a huge grin on my face! He opened the door and told me to come on in.
So, here you have two passionate home bakers in front of a master, and may I say the sweetest, nicest and most generous master. We started asking him questions and he told us EVERYTHING! He explained from A to Z how he makes his famous baguette. He adapted the recipe for home use for us and explained how we could do the steps at home. He showed us how to form the baguettes, slide them in the oven, what temperature.... EVERYTHING!
We even asked him if we could come and have a real lesson and he didn't say no, he said in September it could be possible.
Now, what he told us was actually quite surprising! The baguette dough has a 75% hydration, very little yeast, hardly kneaded, folded three times in one hour then placed in the fridge 21hrs. They are not fully risen when placed in the oven, it is the wet dough and the very very hot oven (250°C) that make give the volume.
When I get some time, I will be trying his recipe. I feel success is near!!!!
Anis gave me permission to publish his pictures. They were all taken by Florence, "photographe extraordinaire".
Jane
Explanations
Baguettes à cuire
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Baguettes
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What an adventure. You will remember it for years.
Mary
Jane, can you provide any info on the flour Anis uses?
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
Steve,
Oh yah! MAIN detail I forgot! For the baguette, he said that of course he learned with the T55 but uses T65. His other breads are sourdough, but the baguette is yeast, and he doesn't use a poolish, just relying on the very long, cool fermentation.
He uses an organic flour for one of his breads, but doesn't systematically because he'd have to pay a tax in order to be labelled "organic". He doesn't think it's worth it. His flour is "Label Rouge" which is a quality control label used for food products. I think he uses different millers. It is just a very high quality non-organic flour. He showed us the T65, T80 and the T150.
Jane
Jane, thanks for your detailed response. Now if I could only find a source of true French T65 (and T55 for that matter) here in the U.S. ...
SteveB
www.breadcetera.com
I would use the usual half bread flour, half all purpose for a test because I think it's the technique that really counts the most.
Jane
WOW! You really DID have an adventure. Lucky you! Thanks for posting the great photos and it's great that you were able to spend time with such a great master boulanger. It's amazing that he doesn't use a poolish, only a a small amount of yeast and long fermentation. That puts a whole new twist on things. Really looking forward to seeing your results in the Great Baguette Quest.
Howard
David
OK, I finally found the time to test. Well, it is the very first time that I got a very open, big holed crumb. The taste was wonderful. I screwed up the shaping (wrong weight and a bit lopsided) but that is just a detail. I feel utterly fulfilled! :-)
Jane
David
David,
Oh THERE you are!!! Hello!
For the formula, basically any baguette recipe that you like will do the trick using less yeast (say 1/4 tsp for 500g flour). It's the night in the fridge that changes everything! So, less yeast, longer fermentation. Please, do try it because I think you will be thrilled with the results.
Jane
You did well Jane and took good notes. I'm looking forward to your photos and write up but we have enough to try I think.
Thanks for sharing.
Added by edit: Jane did the dough go into the fridge in bulk or was it shaped?
Eric
Eric,
The dough went in the fridge after the first hour (three folds), so in bulk. It is weighed and cut (mise en couche) cold out of the fridge, then after an hour shaped, then 45 min rise. Don't look for a lot of rising before going in the oven, it's almost totally dependant on oven spring. They literally explode!
Jane
Jane,
Do you happen to know how cold the retarding phase is? It would matter a lot in the development of acids (flavor). How did yours taste?
Eric
Added by edit: I see you said yours were delicious. I started a batch for tomorrow with 1/4 tsp in 500 g batch. Also added 1% (5 g) of rye. Should be ready to bake by 7:AM.
David
Yep, sounds good. I guess I'm a bit silly, but I didn't really dare write it all out and I'm not even speaking about it on my French blog. He was so generous about his formula (double what you wrote, but I did like you) and his technique, I just didn't feel right about saying, OK here it is! But essentially that is what I've done and he basically gave permission. Know what I mean? And I know that any recipe for baguettes would work, just reducing the yeast. I used 1/4 tsp.
Oh and for the kneeding, do the slap and fold technique and just until the dough takes shape, no longer. As soon as it starts to look like bread dough, stop! Don't go for windowpane.
For the baking time, watch. He does them til they are pretty dark. He made his apprentice put some back in the oven while I thought they looked perfect! It may be a question of taste... but not light, let them go dark golden.
Eric, it's 5°C. He didn't make a big deal about the temperature altering taste, he only said that it would change the ferment time. I know that bakers here change the temp in order to go faster or slower. I know that sourdough is more sensitive to temp changes as certain bacteria thrive or die at certain temps, but the regular yeast? I don't know.
Happy baking and let me KNOW!!!!! Anyways I know you'll be astounded by the results (OK I should shut up, it might jinx) but even when I thought I'd screwed the whole thing up with my transfer to the oven, they were still magnificent. And the taste... ah!
Jane
Hi David,
My number sense is a complete disaster so I'm not sure if I've further reduced the ingredient measurements properly. After doing a number of conversions which I no longer understand, I ended up using a cup of flour and 2 shot glasses of water filled just past the 3 oz line. This resulted in a very familiar runny dough which I've now learned is actually for ciabatta and requires hours (literally) of kneading in order to hold a shape. So I reckoned that was wrong and I used your cups measurements by dividing 3.85/1.66 which gave me 2.3. I had already used six ounces of water so I figured I'd have to use 2.3x that for the flour so I multiplied 6(2.3) which, for me, equaled 13.8, but since I'm superstitious I rounded it up to 14 (I shouldn't be so afraid of 13, good things have happened to me when it's around, but what can you do with crazy?)-- at any rate, since I believe that there are 8oz of flour in a cup of flour I divided 14 by 8 and got 1.75 which I took to mean that I should have 1.75 cups of flour in the dough. So I added three 1/4 cups of flour to the dough which resulted in something that, compared to the ciabatta dough I've worked with, was downright firm. I say all of this in case I made a mistake along the way. This way you can tell me where I went wrong.
What I love about baking bread, though, is that, so far, it's been very forgiving and even if I get things terribly wrong, so far I've always gotten a pretty good consolation prize out of it.
Thanks David, or whoever helps me out,
Sergio
David
Well, here is my first crack at this. The method is easy enough but my dough spread quite a bit. I was trying to get these to fit inside my steam pan so I could use a steam generator and give this my best effort. That means I had to make the so called Baguettes a little shorter and fatter than normal. Next batch I'll just bake them on a hot stone and steam.
David I ran this exactly the way you wrote it. I found it was harder for me to shape using my usual 65% hydration techniques. That was my only trouble with the method. As soon as I discover how to handle the dough better they will look right.
The KA French style flour is delicious. I'll try again tomorrow using my usual Harvest King. I did add 1% Rye which is about 1 tsp (5g) in 500 grams of flour.
Sorry about how worm like these look. Mama always said "don't stuff 5 #'s of stuff in a 3# can". Good advice I guess.
Jane: This is a nice easy recipe and I think it will make a great Batard also. Thanks for sharing the results of your outing with us in the colonies. Next batch will not be so moche!
Eric
Your baguettes look very nice. The crust has great character and the crumb is nice and open. As I recall Jane said Anis used T65 fliour. I have been experimenting with baguettes for a while using King Arthur French Style flour, which contains 11.5% protein and it has a high ash content. When I decribed it to Jane she said it would be the approximate equivalent of French T70, which is close to the T65 that Anis uses. I'll give the baguette recipe/concept (that David and you have come up with using Janes notes and recolletions) a try in the not too distant future, I'll use some of the KA French Style flour and see how it goes.
Anyway, your loaves look very nice and I'm looking forward to seeing the next batch you said you were going to do. Best to you in your baking endeavors.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
I'd love to see your results with that flour Howard. Don't forget to post!
Jane
I'll post something showing the results of the KA French style flour when I make them.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
David
Eric,
Those look nice! The shape is always the problem with kitchen size ovens. I made mine too thin. I'll do a sort of half baguette next time. You should try different flours to compare because with our T65 the crumb was really really open, BIG holes. I assume it is a flour issue.
I found the dough quite hydrated but not as much as a ciabatta, so easier to handle. But again, I think it's a flour thing. I was really stupid because my sister arrived in the beginning of July and I totally forgot to ask her to bring me flour!
I'll try them again and show the results.
Jane
Thanks David and Jane, that's about typical with the pan and steam generator. I blasted these for 12 seconds and left the cover on for 12 minutes. My stone is 14-1/4X16-3/4 and I just have to find a pan that will fit better on the stone. I can make boules one at a time safely and sometimes 2 at a time if I'm careful and they aren't to large.
The dough was 75% and not too sticky. I did use flour on the counter after the first time stretching and that seemed to help. I think the next batch I will be more careful with handling and degassing and you may be right about the development. The second batch I mixed a couple hours ago was HK and it was more well developed after a few french folds than the KA French Style flour.
It should be said that my wife and daughter have been raving all afternoon about how delicious the bread is today. That's uncommon these days so it must really be good.
My next trial will be to blend AP and Bread flour to try and approximate Jane's Type 65. I might break down and buy a bag of KA bread flour since my HK is pretty strong. Any suggestions on this?
Eric
Eric,
Keep us posted. I can't make it again before next week because I am busy with some other sourdoughs. As soon as I make it again, I'll post it. Do try the AP + bread. I'm going to try them using T55 just to see what the difference is. The baguettes should be even airier.
Jane
For some reason these appear lighter than they are. I was playing with the white balance on the camera maybe.
Anyway these look a little better. I decided to pre shape the dough out of the cooler by stretching it to roughly the length I want in the end. It was sticky so I dusted it slightly and covered with a towel for 1 hour. Then I removed the towel and folded top to bottom and sealed up the seam. I also squared up one end that was to skinny which also shortened it to the proper length. After further dusting and rolling around on the plastic cutting board, I transfered to parchment paper, pulled a barrier in between the loaves and again covered with a towel to proof for 45 Minutes. The proof time was extended by distraction to almost 2 hours unfortunately but I slashed (poorly) and muddled on.
The bread was done in 23 minutes at 480. Normal steam on a pre heated stone.
Conclusions:
The crust is very nice and the crumb is a creamy chewy open air delight. It looks better than the batch from yesterday using KA French Style flour but that is no doubt due to my ham fisted shaping.
The taste is noticeably unremarkable. It is good, and if I didn't know the difference from yesterday might even say great. The flour does matter. This batch is Harvest King Better for Bread with 5 grams of WW added to 495 grams of the HK.
Next I will try and approximate the T65 flour so common in Europe but for some reason a mystery here. A 50/50 mix of AP and bread flour. Could it be that simple?
From a bunker somewhere in the colonies,
Eric
Eric,
You forgot to show the crumb! I'm crumb obsessed, didn't you know? :-)
Otherwise they look wonderful. As you can see in the blog post, Anis's baguettes are not perfect in appearance. They are pretty irregular actually. I was so happy to see a French baker that was so at ease with irregular bread shape. His boules weren't even perfectly round and the slash openings totally uneaven! Heaven!
Jane
These are made using David Snyder's recipe. I used K.A. French style flour and retarded them for 21 hours in the refrigerator. I shaped them right out of the refrigerator and left them out at room temp. for 2 hours in the couche, which I don't think was long enough because I think they were still cool in the center and could have stayed out another half hour or so. Because of the high hydration it's hard dough to work with but I tried not to over handle the dough and shaped them cold and placed them in the couche for final fermentation. One thing I would suggest is to heavily flour the couche, as one of the baguettes gave me some problems letting loose from the couche. I used my nylon covered bread board to move them from the couche to the baking pan. Anyway, I'm going to give it another few tries and fiddle with the recipe a bit.
They had good flavor but the crumb was a tiny bit tacky, which I think resulted from them being cool in the center when I baked them. They were baked on parchment lined pans and I placed a large pan, bottom side up, on top of the stone just before baking and then place my baguette pans on top of the large pan in the oven as I was leery about hot stone scorching the bottoms at such high temperature. I removed the large pan from the stone when I turned the baguette pans around, midway through the baking cycle, and it seemed to work...bottoms browned but no scortching. Also a big blast of steam immediately after they went into the oven.
As I said, I'll try them again with some adjustments in the near future.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Howard,
Looks good! One thing about the timing. Anis's baguettes are thinner, so the 45 min at a fairly warm room temp works. Thicker baguettes like yours would probably need more time indeed. Though, this said, they aren't supposed to really rise before they go in the oven. It's the oven spring that makes them big and open.
I wouldn't be afraid to put them directly on the baking stone because that is the purpose of it! The high heat for baguettes top and bottom is important. I've never scorched their bottoms. It's the intense heat on all surfaces that make them spring. Maybe give it a try next time.
The crumb was a bit chewy probably because they were thick. This formula is adapted to a classic, thin baguette that weighs 250g out of the oven, so in our home oven would be shorter but still thin, see what I mean? A thicker bâtard would probably need to be baked longer at a lower temp to get proper even baking (just a theory).
Thanks for sharing!
Jane
Although one of them spread and looks a bit like a batard, mine were 250 g each. I stretched them as long in length as possible and still be able to fit them into the couche (18 inches) and get them into the oven and clear the door when it closed.
I think you're right about putting them directly onto the stone. They need "big time" heat immediately after they go into the oven. The fact that the bottoms didn't get the intense heat from the stone may partially account for the slightly tacky crumb and directly onto the stone may have given me more oven-spring. I'm always torn between risking scorching the bottoms on a highly heated stone and not getting enough heat onto the dough all the way around the surface.
I'll try them directly on the stone next time. The crumb was fairly open but they need some work and tweaking. As always, it's an iterative process.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
David
Good hearing from you. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I know what you mean about being out of your environment (oven, baking stone, etc.) By the way, I really appreciate you posting your recipe for this baguette so the rest of us who want to try this experiment at least have a basis from which to start. Thank you.
I'll be very interested in what you come up with when you return. I think this technique is a very good one, particularly using very little yeast and long retardation, and well worth trying to figure out and perfect. I'm going to give it another try within the next week or so and maybe we can compare notes when you return. In the meantime enjoy your time away and have fun at the beach.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
David
Good morning, David,
Hope you had a good "get away". Really looking forward to seeing the results of your latest Anis baguettes. Glad you mentioned dividing the dough into thirds. When I did it from your recipe I divided it in half. Next go round I'll divide it into thirds.
As for baguettes, I agree that there are more interesting breads to make with more complex flavors...but there's just something about the challenge of trying to understand and perfect the baguette process that really has kept me at it, off and on, for the past 10+ years. Maybe, as you said, it has to do with the memories they evoke.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
I think by the end of the year we'll all deserve medals for our baguette quest results. Don't you all think?
Jane
David
OK, maybe I haven't been wounded in the effort, but my kitchen has been. So, I don't know. A big baguette party would have been fun, but unfortunately the world is a bit too big, hélas!
Jane
Good Morning Jane,
Maybe what we need now is a benchmark to judge whether what we're doing in this baguette quest is on the right track. I do recall you saying to Eric: "You forgot to show the crumb! I'm crumb obsessed, didn't you know? :-)" So, in the interest of "sharing" maybe you could show us the results of your testing and experiments? Would love to see them.
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
Hi Howard,
The results are in my last blog post for the sourdough baguettes. I couldn't post pics here because my Gimp isn't working, but you can see them at
www.aulevain.com
The crumb is getting there!
Jane
Oops, my mistake!
www.aulevain.fr
Hi Jane.
I have a question for you, since you are the only one who was able to taste the original from the hands of the master. How was its taste, in your opinion, of course. I understand that tastes are a very personal thing. But yours is quite developed, seeing how many breads you've now baked and tasted yourself, and therefore have a basis to compare with.
And although this question sounds foolish, but I'm curious if what you tasted in Anis' bakery was truly in your opinion an award winning baguette?
Rudy
Rudy,
Well, let's see. The baguette is judged on taste and it's physical aspect, crust and crumb. The baguettes are cut open horizontally and the openess of the crumb is judged. What is so spectacular with his baguette is that it has a perfect, crunchy crust and the inside if open, but it isn't a fluffy cloud-type, soft crumb. He uses T65, which is not a prefectly white flour and with the all night retardation, it becomes much more elastic than a regular baguette. The taste, is a nice, wheaty, in my mind, simple taste. It is incredibly complex (this is a sourdough eater speaking) but that isn't the goal in a baguette. You know when you have a great baguette in your hand and you unconsciously rip of pieces and eat? It's good, it's wheaty, but it is the texture that grabs you... biting in to the crunchy crust and then chewing on the crumb. His baguette is incredible for that and better tasting than a plain old regular baguette.
Hope I answered you question, it's hard to explain.
Jane
You absolutely did. I just wanted to make sure that before I join the frey and try to figure out the further details of the process and the formula, that it was in fact worth it. :) And it sounds like it certainly is.
That describes my 3 weeks in France perfectly in 1989. :) I too love the thin crispy crust of a baguette with its sweet and wheaty crumb. MMmmmmm ... I'd like to offer an observation, for you all to consider and comment on. The amount of hours and the directions than Anis has given lead me to conclude that the dough cannot be chilled and must be fermented at room temperature to attain any amount of flavor. At least this is according to my experience. Any thoughts? Rudy
Rudy,
He was pretty specific about the dough being held at 5°C for 21 hrs. The Three River's Bread that I posted from Mike's recipe had a nice flavour, much like the baguettes. The cold still lets the flavour develop.
But, what can I convice you about it... you have to TRY it!!!! And then tell us what you think. The hardest thing will be trying to choose which type of flour to use if you're in the States. David used the French style, but there are many possibilities.
But, yes, I'd say it's definitely worth it and the sourdough version with yeast is even better!
Jane
Rudy,
The original formula sounds like it's classified "top secret". Maybe the Cone of Silence is in order...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLZKEre3yJ0
Howard - St. Augustine, FL
OK, Howard, you are funny!
Rudy,
When David recipe posted his recipe, it was exactly what Anis explained to me, so I didn't have anything to add, that's all. David is good at deducing.
Jane
Dougal, have you had any experience with sieving rye?
if not, I think I might try it this weekend.
Lynne
I'm not sure really that I do necessarily want to lighten it - I just wondered what it might do to the rise, so I shall experiment for the sake of experimentation. :D
Lexicographical comment: Bolting used to use coarse cloth , instead of the varying nylon screens I believe are used today. I also found a reference to "dressing" the flour in a bolting cloth on one of the flour sites.
Thank you so much for creating and continuing this thread! I have one question for Jane. I've been taking it for granted until a second ago that Mr. Buoabsa used steam in his baking. But did he?
Yes, he used steam. His oven s a modern deck oven with steam perfectly controlled.
Jane,
You've been missed. Welcome back.
Hopefully we'll all have the pleasure of more of your baking adventures.
Bien Cordialment, Wild-Yeast
Thanks! Baking over here as been delicious but pretty simple. I have found a flour I really love and pretty much bake two types of bread very regularly, semi whole wheat baguettes for hubby and pain au levain because I love it. But this summer, as I am headed over to North America, I will definitely have to do some baking with the notorious american flour! I can't wait.
I promise to show the pain au levain soon.
Jane
Please can you help me with this recipe? Can't seem to find it here. Am new on this forum. Thanks!
See this: Anis Bouabsa ficelles
Happy baking!
David
I like his technique for using steam as a rising agent. I've had consistent results baking my baguettes in this way. This recipe also lends well to flavorings ie: Pistachio/Cherry, Walnut/Roquefort, Spinach/Chevre, etc. I've used all of these additions in a similar recipe, identical procedure and had admirable results. You will sacrifice a touch of volume, scoring will not be as consistent, however the flavorings are irresistible. I suggest a 450g measure for each as well. Happy Baking xoxo
Hi all!
So, a lot of time has passed!
I‘m working in a local bakery in the south of France that was bought four years ago by a group of three bakers from Paris. I haven’t been living in France for the last four years because my husband accepted a job in Africa and the kids and I went along for the ride. Now we are back in France!
I love the bread at this bakery because it is unlike anything made locally. I’m doing a 14 week « stage » at the bakery, doing all the pastries and goodies. I work closely with the bakers, helping with the viennoiseries as well. So, as someone very passionate about bread, we spend a lot of time chatting. I get to help, observe, slash baguettes, etc. The other day, I asked the baker about his baguette. I wanted to now the exact process. Well, GUESS WHAT??? He worked at Anis Bouabsa’s bakery in Paris and that is where he learned to maie his fabulous baguettes! We went through the whole process and he asked me if I knew the secret ingredient. I said, a bit of rye (the other baker told me) and he said exactly.... and a bit of corn flour, just to add a slight golden color. He showed me the quantity. Literally a small bowl for the entire professional mixer.
I find it incredible how small the world is sometimes.
So, if there are bakers out there interested in the Bouabsa recipe, definitely give it a try. The baguettes are SOOOOO good!
I hope your time in Africa was beneficial for all involved. And I look forward to hearing more from you.
Paul
It was an incredible experience on so many levels! It also gave me the opportunity to work in a bakery for the first time. And that experience got me this job in France. The problem I have for home baking these days is that my oven isn't so great. It's perfect for pastry, but I find it lacking for bread.
Hi Jane, you are a legend around here with your baguettes! It is nice to have you back. I would love to know the formula for the Bouabsa baguettes with percentages for the flours. I’ve made the Bouabsas but never included any corn or rye and it would be great to make them with those flours included.
All the best to you and your family.
Benny
Hi Benny, Nice to meet you!
Here are the baguettes. I didn't choose the most beautiful baguette to photograph. I just took a few for lunch.The product is always consistant but they don't make a big deal about them looking absolutely perfect. In the crumb close up, you can see the texture of the crumb. People come from afar to buy this bread and it freezes perfectly.
I'll get the exact formula on Wednesday, as the bakery is closed tomorrow. But essentially, it is what is written above but you replace a tiny percentage of the flour with rye and corn. Hardly noticeable.
In your absence this recipe became well known around these parts and versions of it have propagated on this site. We recently did a baguette Community Bake where they were became even more prominent. I would like to thank you personally for bringing it to our attention. We have also learned of a source for French T65 flour here in the USA that is so good that adding other flours to it I am afraid would risk corrupting it's charm. When my supply of that flour runs out I will try your flour additions with my normal AP flour batons in the future.
Thanks Don
Yes, I see what you mean. When you’ve found perfection, why change?.
I think the corn flour is just for color. It’s in homeopathic doses. I haven’t had time to go through the whole recipe because when I get to work, the baker is loading them in the oven.
Thank you for the kind words. There was a lot of trial and error to get to this point. Cornflour is an ingredient in Chad Robertsons baguettes in his Tartine book and bakery. It is added for color and sweetness but I never got around to trying it because I settled on the Bouabsa recipe that you brought forward.
This is the flour that was such a revelation to me. I think it is from the Normandy region. I never knew bread could taste so good and did not get the charm of baguette burnt ends from the other flours I have used in the past, which was mostly USA all purpose. The flavor of the burnt ends from this flour is sublime and beyond compare. If all of the varieties of French flour are this good I may go broke paying for shipping or have to get over my envy and just move there.
Don
Sorry, I disappeared. I'm off work on Sunday and Monday, but end up doing computer work and house stuff. It's the only time I get to visit here.
That looks like good flour. Are there additives or is it pure?
Most flour over here has some additives
https://www.moulindenomexy.com/fr/boutique/fiche-produit/farine-bagatelle-label-rouge-t65
This is the flour we use for our baguettes traditions. It is just wheat flour, nothing else.
Composition: Wheat Flour T65, gluten, malted wheat flour, amylases. I believe it is repackaged by the US distributer so there is not much other info on the bag.
I guess malted wheat does the same job as the malted barley that is used here. I think the protein content is around 10% and it seems to take slightly less water than other wheat flour I have used that is grown in the western US.
Don
I definitely noticed that French soft wheat flour absorbs less liquid. It's the flavor that I love. We did a flour exchange years ago with Steve and I liked how easy US flour was to work with, but it lacked the flavor of our flour. What I was using at the time was an organic T65. The French flour with additives is tasty and easier to work with, but never organic.
The T65 flour I have been using is also available in an organic version that might not have the additives. Although this one is so good that I can taste it all the way down to my bones. I love watching the same reaction of the people I have shared my baguettes with.
Astonished to read the description of the flour you linked to. Reposted here to provide contrast to the homogenized mass produced flour we have to sort through.
BAGATELLE Label Rouge T65 flour will allow you to make homemade breads for all meals and which will please all palates. T65 flour, without additives, also called traditional French flour, is used by bakers to make the famous French traditional baguette but also other cream or light yellow crumb breads.
Among the white flours, it is ideal for making traditional breads, with a thin, blond or even brown crust and a honeycomb and pearly crumb. The breads will have a good nutritional balance with their good carbohydrate and fiber content.
Flour made from certified French wheat, selected according to the terroirs and preserved without insecticide treatment by ventilation in natural air.
"selected according to the terroirs" might be the secret ingredient. I think the US wheat is selected for things like crop yield and machine mixing properties with almost no thought for taste.
Thanks to the modern world of internet access and shipping I should be grateful that it is relatively easy to locate and purchase flours from other countries to sample. It's hard to justify the shipping cost but being captivated by baguettes will do that to a person.
This article helped convince me that I needed to try some french flour. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/13/baking-bread-in-lyon Although I am hoping to avoid a similar fate as the author had when only a certain flour will do.
Terroir is a very important thing here in France. That's why I poste the bread a little lower down. That wheat ONLY grows near here. The flour we use is grown at a small, independant farm. It's triple the price of regular flour but the aroma it gives the bread is amazing. Plus, it's organic. The same goes for cheese, fruits and veggies, meat...
It's one of the reasons I feel fortunate to live here. The food is soooo good, and I have access to reasonably priced, high quality ingredients.
Hi Jane,
Great to see you back after so long an absence! And yes, the world is not as big as it first appears...,
On that same theme I find it incredible that they are also using rye flour in their dough. I've been using organic dark rye to improve the sourdough starter levain build. I liken it to a vitamin pill to insure the long term stability of the culture.
The addition of corn flour is somewhat of surprise though. I'm guessing that it only affects the color of the baguettes and not the flavor so much or is it more subtle than that(?)...,
Best regards,
Wild-Yeast
Hi there!!
Yep, the corn flour is most definitely for color. And I’m thinking the rye is is the pate fermentée. I’ve been so busy in my pastry corner, that I have t had time to go through the bread formulas with the bakers. But I will definitely find out more info soon. I’ll do a little blog post on the bakery I work at because it is really a fantastic place. I feel very fortunate to be a part of the team.
How great to see you back on TFL, Jen!
For general, historical information: When Janedo was searching for a favorite baguette formula and I was tagging along, we discovered that adding a small amount of rye flour - like 5% - to a white flour dough enhanced flavor complexity amazingly, without having any recognizable specific rye flavor. This exploratory process was what led me to the development of the San Joaquin Sourdough.
David
David,
Any thoughts on the addition of corn flour to the taste profile?
I've found a long retard (> 12 hours) with low percentage (< 5%) rye flour addition results in a greatly improved taste profile that's just not achievable in a plain pain au levain. The only issue is that the proofing time needs to be reduced some, otherwise the dough overproofs slightly.
Wild-Yeast
Wild-Yeast
I have never used corn flour in bread other than corn bread and tortillas. I like the flavor of corn meal a lot though.
I haven't noticed any difference in proofing time with rye, but the breads I bake without any rye are few and are different in many ways from those with rye (enriched one way or another).
David
As I was reading Susan’s reply that exact thing crossed my mind. It went into your bread formula. That small bit of rye changes everything. At the bakery, it is used in the sourdough starter, but I don’t think they add it to the dough afterwards. We are in the south, so not a rye area, but I’d like to propose a bread that has some more rye added to it. We also have a local flour called Barbu des Pyrénées. Barbu means bearded and I think it might be because the grain has a little beard to it. I made a 100% barbu bread last week that was fantastic. I did a build with it in the morning, made the dough in the afternoon, all night rest and then bake. It’s an old old grain that only grows in our area but the gluten strength was totally adequate. I’ll upload some photos.
I’m not great at getting the photos uploaded well. Hope they aren’t too big. The color is not quite like the original but you can tell it’s a bit more grey. The interior I crumb is a bit more tight, but still very nice. My oven is not very good for bread. I changed it about 6 years ago and it just isn’t like my old one. It won’t even go up to 250 C.
Anyhow, the texture and flavor are amazing.
I really like this loaf!
Well, these are not the original Bouabsa baguettes but, rather, the San Joaquin Sourdough derivative. I substituted finely ground corn meal for the whole wheat in my formula, so it is approximately 90% AP and 5% each rye and corn flour. I baked this morning and we had some for lunch. I would say there is a subtle increased sweetness to the crumb flavor. No impact on crumb structure. From the dough consistency, there really was no difference. Anyway, I like this variation a lot. Here are some photos:
David
Lovely crumb and crust David. Regarding your formula above, is it 80% AP and then 10% each rye and and corn flour or 90% AP and 10% split between rye and corn flour?
Thanks, Benny.
I was rushing to post this right before a Zoom event that was about to start. I'll correct the numbers. Thanks for pointing out my error. Of course, I could just say the baguettes were 110% delicious. ;-)
David
Well no one could argue with that statement that baguettes are 110% delicious, I’d go with that.
Beautiful as always.
So, did you notice a color difference?
No. I didn't notice any color difference. Remember, my usual formula already has about 10% whole grain flour, and the dough is not really white.
Hi Janedo, I have read your blog and loved the experiences you have shared - but still trying get that elusive parisien baguette de tradition crumb! Please help! I have tried most of the methods except the long cold ferment. Do you have more info or recommendations (your photos are no longer shown!), to assist me?